Thanks for checking in Whatis. I'm doing ok - had a busy weekend. As far as the M goes, there hasn't been any r talk of late, but last time we did talk W asked me "you aren't still hoping that things will work out between us, are you?" I told her that I wasn't sure that hope was the right word - I was doing my best to keep myself open to it should it come up. We have been getting along a lot better, it seems mostly that she's taken the initiative to stop taking out her anger on me. I wish there was more I could take credit for, but her statement from a while back of "how come when I'm nice to you we get along" still resonates loudly with me. I've been working on my "niceness" recently, trying to eliminate the fear motivation. This is something that really concerns me about my participation in any power struggle - and I want to change that for my sake. The idea is that people are nice because of their fear of being rejected. The end result in this sick relationship dynamic is that I cater to my W's aggressive attempts to remedy her emotive state and BOTH of us are controlled by her emotions and neither of us is satisfied by what we're doing (my wife moreso). I need to stop believing (far more difficult than just understanding this truth) that I can earn her love and respect through compliance. My biggest problem here is that I rationalize taking these actions on my part as acts of kindness - I don't want to stop being a kind person, but I need to be sure that my kindness is always a gift, not seen as part of a bargain.
So I have been working on this, but sometimes I have a hard time keeping up my end. For example, we were planning to go to a parade on Sunday - and I went to the gym and took S4 with me before. I got home, jumped in the shower and got ready. My W knocked on the bathroom door and asked me what the plan was (this was after we talked about going, and that it started at 12, both mid-week and before I went to the gym). She had just gotten out of the shower herself and when I told her we were leaving in a few short minutes she got upset saying that she didn't have time to get ready. Anyway, I was going to go, but I kept telling her that I was willing to wait for her. I think this was my mistake (even though she was doing all she could to rationalize it to be my fault the whole time: "you didn't tell me", "I thought since you were going to the gym you weren't going to go"), and I should have just left and told her "too bad you weren't ready" and let her feel the full effects of her bad planning. In the end she didn't come, S4 and I had a great time - but she was standing in the doorway with tears in her eyes when we left. I am getting better, but I still try to make her feel better. Doesn't really seem to make much sense when it comes to saving a marriage to stop being nice - but then on the other hand, it makes perfect sense!
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Sounds like things are improved Muddle. The fact that she is taking responsibility for her own anger is a pretty big plus! It gives you space to breathe and look at your own part in this little drama. It's good you were able to see how the parade incident could have been handled differently whether you did so or not. Just recognizing that there are choices is pretty liberating. I loved your answer about "hoping", it was perfect. There's nothing wrong with leaving yourself open to whatever may come about, it's honest but not an overpowering statement. I'm glad you and your son enjoyed the parade! chin up, you're doing the right things (in my mind, for what that's worth )
Yes, I think there is some improvement, but I'm not sure it's going in the right direction. I know I can do better when it comes to rescuing my W from her feelings (this came up in therapy - the counselor recognized that my W resents me because I didn't recognize that she was as depressed as she now thinks she was after the birth of our son and do something to change it - the counselor pointed out all that I was doing and was going through myself, and told her that her expectation was unreasonable). This counselor has touched on this a couple of times in the past too - that she blames other people (mostly me) for the way she feels, and her feelings dictate her actions. In fact, she has this idea that her feelings are acted upon in a predictable way and anyone that makes her feel a certain way intended to do so, or was careless. For instance, my mother invited us to dinner - she was making pork chops (which my W doesn't eat) and she was planning on accomodating my W by making chicken too. My W chose not to come because "if your mother wanted me to come she would have made something I can eat, not made something special for me to accomodate me." My mother going out of her way for my W resulted in my W feeling embarrassed of her decision to eat nothing but chicken, and she blames my mother for causing this embarrassment. She expects the world to take responsibility for her feelings and is so willing to put it onto other people that if I refuse to do so and let her feel the full weight of the consequences when her choices screw her over, then it's going to do nothing but feed her stockpile of resentment. Well, the choice I have to make is an easy one. Appeasing her to try and prevent the growth of this resentment hasn't worked. I also don't want to be in a relationship where my W is dependant on me for her feelings and wellbeing. So, I need to take the risk that by not accepting responsibility for her feelings (not trying to remedy her negative emotive states) I will push her further away. So that's where I stand - ultimately, she's going to feel the consequences of her choices and either she's going to have no one but her resentful mother standing by her, or she's going to see the reality of a good relationship - one that has responsibility built into it and isn't just feeling fluff - as a safe place to be.
It's interesting though, to be here, 10+ months in. There's a different vantage point, almost a sense of security in the state of affairs. I think she feels it too - she said something last time we talked about things about how this is going to be a long process (the divorce). Then she started getting into how it must be hell for me because it's been so long and that she wouldn't use it against me if I went and found someone to screw! I told her she was the only one I would consider. There's much less stress in me, and no panic. I realize that the worst dynamic (at least from my vantage point) that I have responsibility in is me allowing myself to be controlled by my fear of rejection was amplified to extremes by this whole scenario. It has really allowed me to overcome my fear (because really, could outright rejection be worse than the misery of the past several months? I don't think so) and has given me a fairly secure place to work on making good choices and following through, regardless of the feelings involved. Well, I'm still working on that.
Thanks again for checking in Whatis!
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Well, it's been a while and I need to do some journaling. I might have to do this in several installments because I'm sure there's a lot to put down.
We went to my FIL's for Thanksgiving. It was a bit of a crazed experience. On Wednesday, W took the initiative to pack - leaving my stuff to me for the most part. I threw what I needed in the suitcase that night (we weren't leaving until about noon on Thursday). Thursday morning, I got up and made breakfast for S4, emptied the dishwasher, etc. W got up and came upstairs and almost immediately laid into me telling me that I don't care about her feelings because I didn't have everything done that she thought I should have. She told me that I know that she gets nervous about flying and I should have done something to prevent her from doing so. I told her that we had plenty of time before we had to leave and that everything would be taken care of. She wasn't happy to hear this. The interesting thing is that while this happened I was in the middle of cleaning the bathroom because I know she likes to come home to a clean house - ironic, huh? Well, everything was ready more than 30 minutes before we had to leave, no rushing. She used this incident to illustrate that I don't care about her, and told me that this is why she doesn't like traveling with me. I didn't do much in the way of arguing with her, but I told her that everything would be taken care of and she shouldn't worry about a thing. She did worry and she blamed her worry on me. Mind you, she took a xanax (or some kind of anti-anxiety pill) at about 9 in the morning.
Travelling worked out pretty well. W kept things under control for the most part, and the flight was enjoyable. We got there in the evening and we had little time to do anything that night. There are two extra rooms in the house, 1 for S4 and one for us. We put S4 to bed in his room, and later my W moved him into bed with me and took his bed. The next morning he expressed a bit of confusion as to why he was in bed with me and mommy was in his bed, which was echoed later in the evening. When W and I went up to go to bed I expressed my concern that this wasn't good for S4 to be shuffled around like he was. She got angry and yelled (at low volume so her father wouldn't hear her) at me telling me that I was trying to manipulate her into bed with me. I was certainly not doing this, but it's telling that she thinks this is the case. She told me that I was forcing her to sleep on the floor. I told her that I didn't care where she slept, she was welcome to sleep in the bed with me, but I wasn't asking her to do so. I wished her a good night as she went to sleep on the floor in our son's room. She started texting me shortly after: W: You're a hateful spiteful person M: I hope you have a good night. My concerns were and are for S4, not you or us. I thought I was clear about that. If I was not, please understand that now. W: I guess your ego must be bruised since I'd rather sleep on the floor than with you. Clearly, since you didn't have the nerve to bring it up all day. I don't buy your BS. M: Sleep well. W: I won't but who cares, definitely not you. M: Good night. Sorry you are upset. W: Sorry you're a huge jerk pretending to be a nice guy. M: Good night. W: Make sure you get the last word. She came in to argue with me shortly after this. She kept pushing the ego-bruising part, which clearly showed that she wants to hurt me. I think she is pretty confident that if she hurts me, I'll respond in a vindictive, P/A way and then be the bad guy. So she's nasty and tries to hurt me in order to produce some negativity from me. I think it just kills her that I don't respond that way - if I don't hurt and respond with some negative emotion, she thinks I don't care and that in turn means that she doesn't matter. Which drives her deeper and deeper down.
Well, I have continued to treat her with kindness, despite her blow ups. I'm starting to resent it more and more. I'm detached from it, so it's not an angry reaction. I understand that she's going through a lot, but her natural reaction is to treat me like crap, to try and hurt me because she's unhappy. She's more interested in passing on the misery than actually being happy. Ok, more a little later. . .
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, I am just speachless, you are just so strong and so good to her, it's unbelievable, I wish my H would know of a person like you, who truly is good and selfless, he thinks all humanity is out to get each other.
It boils my blood when I read how awful she is to you, I know you don't need my discouraging ranting, but JEEZ, you can't be doing anything else right for her yet she is just out to get you. For whatever is worth, you are an awesome person and I sure wish she'd get her brains/heart back and see what she's got in you.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Yeah, Muddle, what everyone else said. You're really an inspiration and your goodness is an admirable example we should all follow. I hope and pray the goodness you generate comes back to you many times over, because you've certainly earned it.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Thanks guys. It's really sad to me - it hardly gets me defensive anymore because I just can't take it personally. Sometimes there are useful tidbits in her abuse, but for the most part not. She went on and on about how I proved that I don't care about her because I didn't offer to give her the bed and sleep on the floor myself. She seems to think that I should be completely selfless and do everything I can to satisfy her and make her life nice, and by not spending 100% of my effort on this I'm proving that I don't love her. The crazy thing is that I see my taking on as much responsibility for her wellbeing as I have as a detrimental thing - because I have enabled her dependency which is part of why we are where we are now, yet to her it's not enough.
Now I'm being told that I'm condescending all the time, that I'm passive aggressive, that I'm mean and I don't care about her feelings. As I've posted before, I think the fact that I have allowed her feelings to control me and have a track record of caving into her impulses, appeasing her, is a really bad thing to me. So, I can't provide her with the positive reinforcement that I'm getting better at being her husband by doing what she wants because she's going to steer this ship straight into the rocks if all I do is spend my life responding to her demands. And I'll have nobody to blame but myself for wasting my life doing so.
So back to the trip. Things seemed to be going pretty well while we were there. I guess she was putting on a show for her father and stepmother (who both really like me), but things seemed to be relatively normal. But she was always hostile to me when she had the opportunity. I don't really understand how one can spend so much energy acting the way she does, but she does. I guess I bring it out in her in some way, but to me, any contribution I make is just an excuse to unleash her venom.
While we were away, some minor issue occured and I told her that I was sorry she felt the way she did. She responded by telling me that I'm always so slick and sly about things like this. I appologize for her feelings but I don't take responsibility for causing them. I responded that I was sorry she felt the way she did, and I was sorry that my actions contributed to her feeling the way she did, but I didn't appologize for my actions because they were honest and genuine and had little to nothing to do with her. She takes everything personally and seems to think that everything I do is to influence her. The world revolves around her.
So, the flight back had her stressed. She doesn't deal with her stress, she just converts it into anger and dumps it on me. When we landed, I was trying to put the car seat in the car. She was on the other side of it and took the seat-belt to clip our son in. She gott angry and yelled at me to move the seat over, as if she had asked me already. She hadn't, but I guess I should have known, right? She kept snapping at me like that, little things. Irrational, unreasonable. My feeling is that I am experiencing a part of her inner dialogue - she gets a certain amount of relief out of having an external object to criticize, rather than just herself. The problem isn't what she criticizes, it's that she does so. But that's part of her depression. Her misbehavior is always excused by something. And I don't know where the line is with regard to legitimacy. I give her too much room to abuse this gray area.
Ok, that's that for tonight.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
I am so sorry for all that you are going through...but you really amaze me with your sheer strength in fortitude. You have put up with so much...it seems so unfair, yet you carry on, daily.
Something will come from all of this...something good for you - b/c you deserve it and have been long overdue.
Well said, 1210. I think you speak for all of us! I'm very familiar with the overly sensitive spouse Muddle. It's basically a lost cause to even try to create some kind of understanding. Sadly, it is your W's issue and all you can do is what you are doing by saying "sorry you feel that way" What else is there to do? Thanks for continuing to share your experiences with us, it helps us all and I trust helps you in some way too.
) 