Ok, thanks guys - but I think I mislead you both with my post. Yes, we did get into a little of the history and how we act towards eachother in the ways our parents did towards each other, but this was more something that we should keep in mind - and even more important was the message that this was something that happened in all marriages, a stage, and it introduced the concept that our reactions to each other are heavily influenced by this melding of the roles in our minds. This gives us both reason to rethink our responses to see what is influencing it in the moment, rather than just reacting because we are reacting to our perception which includes a lot of assumptions. I think this is helpful moving forward. Also this is only our second session and the therapist is just getting to know the sitch. I am confident that we are in good hands here.
As for the dwelling on problems and moving towards something, we both have different ideas of where we want to go. I don't think that we are at a stage where we can work towards accomplishing goals yet. We still have to paint the general picture for the therapist, who seems to be getting a good picture of what issues exist and why so far.
I am certainly wary of dredging up all the problems, but I see that this therapist is looking for solutions, and I think when we look at our issues with an objective third party it will become pretty clear that there are relatively simple solutions that we overlooked. There has been a bit more communication since the session already, so I think it helps.
The goals of therapy for us are to get along for the sake of our son. I also want to learn more about myself in relationships through looking at the dynamics that exist in the relationship so that I can take responsibility for it all for the good of my next relationship. This is all I can verbalize, but I do wonder (thanks for this good concept Whatis!) whether this process will lead to improving our sitch beyond just getting along and co-parenting. We'll see. I don't think it can hurt anything.
Thanks for the concern, and believe me when I say that I'm cautious about where we're headed.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
By all means, if you feel the T is helping you to see where your foundation of the M problems are, proceed. Only you and your W know all the issues - so if the T is opening up your eyes to see how things are being perceived and therefore reacted upon, go with it.
Bottom line, you are the one that needs to feel that it is definitely working. It will help you, it will help your W. Together, you both can be on the same page and that does relieve a lot of tension.
Muddle, I think as long as you two have an agreed upon goal in going to T then that is good. It's not so good when one party is looking to use it to "save" the M while the other is looking to use it to "end" the M. Two divergent goals that don't work well together. If going to "become better parents to our son" is the agreed upon goal then you can still use T to develop better communication, show respect ...you know the rest! By changing our actions feelings can also change. Who can ever really know what will happen. Action is always better than inaction (unless you've seen me dance, of course ). I hope the T helps improve life for you two.
It's been over a week since I posted. I seem to have made some progress in the past several days, at the very least in my own understanding. There has been a bit of feedback that leads me to believe that this is true as well.
Last Thursday I told my parents about what has been going on for the past 10 months. They were surprised to know what it was and who was involved, but they were very calm and understanding. They seemed to have a bit of a difference in opinion regarding the future of the marriage ranging from "do you think there's going to be a custody battle" to "these things happen in marriages, maybe if you just wait it out it will get better." In the end they both agreed to keep an open mind regarding my W and recognize that she's a human being like the rest of us that's just trying to find a way to be happy. They supported my decision to remain open to reconciliation and agreed to keep themselves open to this as well. Overall, I'm glad that I talked to them. It's good to be supported and I feel that they understand the situation with a clarity that others may not, and they value my perspective and approach.
This is not to say that they aren't concerned, hurt and probably pretty angry. They contacted my aunt and uncle via email to let them know that they know about the situation. There has been a bit of back and forth because my cousin seems to have gotten his parents off of his back by allowing them to believe that communication between him and my W had stopped or was petering out. Well, they are going to or have already talked to him again. I don't know what kind of impact this will have on the affair - it could go either way. My aunt made it sound like he was pretty trapped in this situation and was depressed. She acknowledged the futility of it all (there's certainly no future in a relationship between them) and seemed to present that my cousin recognized this and it was part of what made things so difficult for him.
She also commented about how he thinks that I have not kept an eye open for my W's needs. This is the biggest issue for me in our marriage because I accomodate her so much on a day to day level that I have little left to "mind read" and meet other needs she may have. I think this is an issue of her lack of responsibility for her own basic needs and wants - she doesn't do for herself - and a lack of asking for what she wants in the relationship department. I know I can't put all the blame on her for this, but if this is my biggest offense, I think it's truly a crock. I think the only way for me to change this dynamic is to stop doing for her, and I'm not sure that this is in my nature - especially when I'm also accused of only ever thinking about myself. Well, I've encouraged her to do things to make her more independant, and she seems pretty intent on this if only for the purpose of separating and divorcing. It's slow going though.
Now, on to the good stuff. W has started texting me and calling me. She's still downstairs, but sometimes we'll watch the same show and she'll call or text to talk about it. I think this is significant because she is reaching out, however minimally, to me. I've been referring to her using pet names again, but I've been making it perfectly clear that I'm happy to live my life without her - I appreciate her but I certainly don't need her. She has been making dinner more often - I'm somewhat suspicious of her motivations - but I'm appreciating it and the family time we get to spend. I wonder whether the fact that she's contributing in this way is actually making her feelings of love towards the family grow, or if she's doing it resentfully and it's contributing to her stores of hate fuel (a cynical - but maybe realistic - part of me thinks that she's practicing for OM because his XGF always cooked for him). Either way, there's a lot to appreciate, and I make it my responsibility to do so.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, good to hear from you. Sounds like things are going well, as they say, no news is good news! She's making attempts to connect with you, that's positive. I still hear your frustration at hearing that you don't meet her needs yet you are working your butt off to do all the day to day things that help her to keep her head above water. As you know, I live that life too. It's hard to know where to draw the line, isn't it. If I don't cook then the kids don't get fed till really late. If I don't pay the bills the credit rating gets screwed. If I don't handle the budgeting ....you get the picture. Yet I'm not doing the things that are really important like emotionally supporting her blah blah blah. When I do try to listen I get told to buzz off! When I try to get her to do some of theseday to day things to help her feel more included in our family, as she says she feels excluded, I'm told she doesn't really want to do any of those things. Arggggh! So we're supposed to run our asses off doing a million things so the W, in my case, can work at her high stress job but are also supposed to be there unconditionally etc. How can it be done? It's also important to keep things sane so that the rest of the family doesn't suffer. You want things to be pleasant and not to be creating a battleground for the kids to be a part of. So, this long winded rant was meant to say "I'm with you, guy!" Damn, I should have just said that in the first place
The past couple of days W has been crying while IMing with OM. Not sure where this is headed, and even if the affair ends, it says little to nothing about the future of the marriage. I'm not really sure what to think - the ball's still in her court. I think if the affair ends I will have to do a great deal of re-reading DB and DR, because I will have an entirely different perspective, if I still want to influence her to stay married.
Well, as you say Whatis, I have to keep focused on what needs to be done. That's what I'm doing and what I plan to continue doing. I am going to keep all the pressure off my W, but be there if she wants to talk. It's hard because I feel that she's made me into a monster that she doesn't trust or even want to trust. Now I have to convince her that she's wrong - what a losing battle!!!!
At least we have a forum to discuss things. I think this therapist will be good for us both, but I'm not sure whether that experience will counter the other influences she has in her life that she thinks are really supporting her. It's not worth thinking much about because in the end she will do what she will do. It's so rough to be in this place, this limbo (of my own making), because I'm projecting images of what the future holds. I know none of them are accurate, and there are so many potential outcomes, but it's difficult not to try and fixate on one of them. I haven't been, I'm only living in the moment in the relationship and looking ahead for myself and my boy. It's just so sad to see my W, now 10 months into her "awakening" with nothing to show for this all except pain, destruction and a new bedroom. Hopefully she's come away from this with some deep insight into herself, real honest self knowledge. I know I have.
Blah blah blah.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, a thought that keeps me going is "she's still here". Now, if you really were this "monster" in her eyes would she still be with you? Probably not. She's there because she chooses to be there, whether she knows it or admits it or not. Also, Muddle, lose any thought of "convincing" her of anything. It is a cheeseless tunnel for you. It can only lead to resentment and disappointment to try and convince her of anything. As you said, she will do what she wants regardless. So, continue to be the best man you can be and let the chips fall where they may. it's a tough haul but you're still pulling the cart! Hang in.
No kidding on the convincing thing - I'm not trying to do so, it's just tough living with someone who chooses to view me as something so far from how I view myself. I mean convincing in the sense that I need to show her through my consistant actions that I'm not who she's making me out to be. Oh well, I can't control what anyone else thinks of me.
On the other hand, I've been pretty good about not building any resentment. We had a really good weekend - took our son out to a great event and it was nice family time. It's been difficult because the better we get along, the more I miss/want her and things to be different than they are. I have to be detached but not distant during these times as well, otherwise I'm likely to interpret her niceness the way I want to see it and then get mad or hurt when she doesn't give me the kind of attention I want - or she's likely to interpret my distance as resentment or negative emotions. If there's one thing I've learned through detachment it's how to avoid getting my feelings hurt by managing my expectations and feelings. We'll see where this train is headed soon enough.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
). I hope the T helps improve life for you two.