Muddle, did we marry the same woman? Is this legal! My W complained because all her co-workers would always say to her "what a wonderful H you have, look at all the things he does for you!" Poor W! All the things I was doing were taking away recognition for what she felt she was doing, working tirelessly, going to school, family etc. I also tried to get us to sit down and look at finances cuz I, supposedly, control all the finances (only because she can't be bothered doing it). I wrote out a budget, gave her a copy, asked for a time to meet (twice) and that was the last I heard of it! I guess we just have to let go of trying to make sense of it all. What is is! And yes, unless our S's are willing to do some work on themselves there is no room for a real M in their lives. Sad but true. It takes two to Tango (that's Ballroom Dance talk ).