Rocco, very nice eulogy to Steven. You said that you have told your W that it hurts you when people don't accept you. Did you realize that you are not accepting that she has a different viewpoint on religion? It definitely seems to be a sore spot with you. You have a VERY different viewpoint on religion from me, but I respect your right to have your own free will to exercise your right to believe how you want. Also, why tell your W she is not a humble person? You do throw in a lot of criticism of her, yet you haven't done a lot to show her that you really want things to change. You have to change you. You cannot change her. She will possibly change to meet your changes, we can only hope. what have you tried to do to help her see positive changes in you? Just curious, but I would really like to know how you are really trying to change. L
Unhappy, where have you been? it looks like we have all been taking some time off here, maybe to regroup and freshen our minds. How are things going with you? Have any of you efforts paid off? Is your W starting to see that you are not going to let her bait you into an argument? Have you or she tried reading any of the books about intimacy? Maybe they can help. There are some good Christian based books out there. Have you ever asked her what would make her want to be intimate more often? You never know what it could be. L
I would say what you have said in your eulogy, and not worry about your wife's reaction. You are saying lessons you learned from Stephen. If she takes offense it is her problem. A eulogy is a good way to grieve. I encourage you to share it with everyone else.
My wife and I are starting to get to the core of our issues in discussions. Basically, here is the dynamic that is dominating our discussions:
1) My wife believes that, at some level, I have shown her I 'don't care' about the family. This is due to issues she has with work hours, business travel, etc. I travel about 25% of the time on average, and I work about 50 hrs per week.
2) My wife believes that, fundamentally, the only way she can ensure I act 'like I care' is to try and force things. She repeatedly says some form of "the only time you do what is right is when I 'make' you do it". This particular comment I find hurtful when she says it.
3) Therefore, when I do do what is right in her eyes, she does not give me credit for doing so, because she 'made' me do it. Therefore, I cannot earn her approval, if that were my goal.
4) I believe my wife is a very needy and insecure person. She has few relationships outside our family, and so she tends to attribute too much of her self esteem to our relationship and her relationships with the boys. This in turn, manifests itself in attempts to control.
5) Since I have been pushing the intimacy issues really hard, it has become much more clear that the reason we don't have enough is because my wife lets so many insecurities from other areas of her life affect this area. Worries about our sons and their issues, worries about my work time, worries about money. She can no longer say that I am the problem, as she once did.
I believe my attempts at independence are very unsettling to my wife at the moment. At the same time, the kids are becoming more independent and need less of her time. It is a total sea change for her, and she doesn't know how to react. She can see the relationship is changing, and that her life is undergoing big changes, and she doesn't know what to do with all of it. She swings from looking forward to the future to recriminating about the past. She swings from trying to be loving to being very denigrating.
My struggle is that, no matter what I do, I cannot force her to establish a life outside the home. I have encouraged her to make friends, to go to school, to do things, but she feels she cannot, that she is 'too busy'. I have invited her on business trips, but she says she can't. I want to love her and help her, and I try, but how do I help her do this? How can I help her to let go, and to start looking outside these problems to what life has to offer her?
I have to cut it down from 5 pages to 2 pages and make sure I just talk about Steven and not how what he did affected me. So I have taking the humility part out of the eulogy other then to say 2 sentences of how Steven dealt with it when he got angry. In addition, I have cut out a lot of things regarding children other then to say that they should be loved and supported as they are, not what we parents think they should be. That's about all I said on that one.
One change I did make is for the longest time I have always hated cats and said very often and for many years that I wish cats were extinct. My W has a cat and she and my children love cats.
On Sunday, while carving pumpkins, the cat came by and I would normally scare it away. However, I quickly thought what my nephew would do and what would he want me to do. Instead I fed the cat. And when I got home from work, I already knew my W was taking my kids trick or treating since we discussed it earlier in the day. The cat cryed and I fed her. Later, I reflected on Steven and I let my emotions get the beter of me. The cat, being in the same room with me, ended up next to me because I got it. The cat doesn't trust me and I don't blame her because to her, I probably resemble Frankenstein. Anyway, I held and petted her and when my family came home, I took them by complete surprise and they were happy to see that. My w asked me about it and I told her what happened, but I did, tell a lie because I said the cat came to me to console me. This morning, my dauther brought the cat to me and she was scared. My daughter tried to explain that I was no threat to her and again I repeated the Frankenstein line and my w her that too. If someone told me 2 weeks ago that I would treat a cat this way, I would have said you are either on drugs or completly insane.
Last night I told my w about a discussion I had with my family this past Monday night when I went to visit. My sister and her husband had not come home yet. The past was brought up. My other sister said we are not a close family and pointed to my mother that it was her fault. In all honesty, my mom never told us she loved us. On the contrary, she was very critical of us and would compare us to our cousins. We knew she loved us because she would do things in other ways, but it was not something she expressed. My w was taken by surprise that mom would do that. She was especially hard on my two sisers. I told my sister "You know, I am just as guilty as you are. When I get upset, angry, hurt, I react back as I was a child. We can't use that excuse anymore. Were adults. If were not a close family, we can change that. It is going to take work on our part, but I hope it becomes 2nd nature that we do this without even thinking about it. I told them we should start telling each other that we love them. I told the whole family that before I went home and kissed them all goodbye before I left. I made sure to tell my younger brother to do the same since he left before me.
Thank you all for telling me that earlier, I just didn't understand what you were saying because I didn't feel it. I do now. I am actually considering telling my BIL and FIL the same thing, regardless of 3 priests telling me I don't and shouldn't do that since they were the ones who were rude and hurtful. I believe my nephew would want me to do that. My reaction to them was due to my own insecurities and my own past. Just feeling the way I do right now, I feel a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders. What a relief.
2) My wife believes that, fundamentally, the only way she can ensure I act 'like I care' is to try and force things. She repeatedly says some form of "the only time you do what is right is when I 'make' you do it". This particular comment I find hurtful when she says it.
My wife has said the same thing to me and then she feels like she is a nag. I need to recognize what household chores need to be done around the house. If she says, I need you to do this or that, I will smile and say of course I will do it. She asked me this past Sunday if I would clean the bathtub, and I told her I would be glad to and keeping me busy will take my mind off Steven so thank you for suggesting that to me.
3) Therefore, when I do do what is right in her eyes, she does not give me credit for doing so, because she 'made' me do it. Therefore, I cannot earn her approval, if that were my goal.
Yeah, I've gotten that too and you feel you are like in a no-win situation. Accept that fact, think on it briefly and then let it go (I can't believe its me giving this type of advice). Continue to do it anyway and do it because you love God.
4) I believe my wife is a very needy and insecure person. She has few relationships outside our family, and so she tends to attribute too much of her self esteem to our relationship and her relationships with the boys. This in turn, manifests itself in attempts to control.
My wife is also insecure and had very few friends. She is insecure about her weight too and blames me because the stress and anger I put her through makes it tough to loose the rest of the weight. That may be true in her mind, but its not. Ignore it, be the big person.
5) Since I have been pushing the intimacy issues really hard, it has become much more clear that the reason we don't have enough is because my wife lets so many insecurities from other areas of her life affect this area. Worries about our sons and their issues, worries about my work time, worries about money. She can no longer say that I am the problem, as she once did.
I have not pushed intimacy what so ever because were not ready. In fact, I don't know if my wife will ever forgive me so I just have to be patient.
She can see the relationship is changing, and that her life is undergoing big changes, and she doesn't know what to do with all of it. She swings from looking forward to the future to recriminating about the past. She swings from trying to be loving to being very denigrating.
I hope my w sees changes in me too, but if she has, I know she will never say so because she is too proud. Again, that is her issue, not mine and I have to accept that.
I want to love her and help her, and I try, but how do I help her do this? How can I help her to let go, and to start looking outside these problems to what life has to offer her?
Sorry, I don't have an answer to that one, but I wish I did. If someone else does, please tell us.
One thing I forgot to add is something else that was said last night during our discussion.
As my w knows, I had a bowl obstruction in late June. I lost some weight then and never was able to put it back on. Then last week, I thought I got another obstruction and have lost my appetite and since last Wednesday. I have ate very little to what I normally eat. Then loosing my nephew last Saturday has really been difficult for me.
I told her that when I went on the scale on Sunday, I weighed 155 pounds. Monday, I weighed 154, Tuesday, 153 and Wed, 152 pounds. This morning, I decided not to weigh myself for fear of loosing another pound. I normally weigh between 165 and 170 pounds. All my clothes are baggy and everybody who sees me has to notice.
She told me I need more protein in my diet. I told her that I was going out to the supermarket and purchase Ensure Plus. This afternoon we talked about things other then our relationship. She told me she bought a roaster and said to me to eat that and some veggies. I thanked her for that. I guess that is good news, and as my DB coach said, jot that down.
However, I don't want to appear too hopeful for fear of disapointment.
That's great that yall are starting to discuss your issues. Do you call her when you are traveling to let her know what you are doing and to reassure her that you are thinking about her and do care? Are there things that you could do BEFORE she asks you to that would show you care? We are all needy at some level, and all of us have some insecurities, some more so than others. Maybe that is where your reassurancves would come in. If she no longer feels you are the problem with intimacy issues, that's good, right. Won't that make it easier for her when you two sit down and discuss your finances and she can see just what you have and what goes out each month, and when she sees that you and she will work together so she doesn't have to worry about the money issues? And when you find out just what about the boys worries her so much. And could you sometimes cut out of work early while the boys are at school to take her to lunch or spend the day at home with her just doing whatever she wants to do? I totally understand the kids not needing so much of her time as they used to, my S is 13, almost 14, and I see that with me, too. He is more independent wanting to spend some time with friends, and it is hard on the mother, because she has been their all for so many years that it is very unsettling to find that you are not as needed as you once were. Keep asking her on your business trips and tell her you will do something special as soon as your business is wrapped up for the day. Maybe she needs a lot of persuading to leave her comfort zone. I, too have had a hard time establishing a life outside the home, and I am not there yet. I have friends, but no really close ones. I didn't finish college, and my H says he will not pay for it, so I can't do that, without financial aid, he wants me to work, and I intend to go Monday to see about a job, so hopefully that will make him see a new me is really forming. I understand looking back and wishing things had been different in some ways, but then knowing I didn't do badly in some ways, too. It is just my H deciding that things were very bad and he may want out, even though he says he is giving me a chance to change. I only know my whole life has been wrapped up in being wife and mother, and I loved the two roles, but apparently didn't do the greatest job with one of them. so, change has to happen and I have to go forward into an uncertain future. Let me know how things progress with you, Unhappy, I am glad you two are getting to the heart of your problems. L
Rocco, that sounds nice that she was concerned about you and wanted to fix something special for you to eat. Yeah, don't show that you are too hopeful, even if you are. why don't you go get some new clothes that fit? Surprise her with that! All my clothes are too big, too, so I am having to dig out my smaller jeans from years ago, I have lost 50 lbs. since july. I won't say my weight like you did, but I like being smaller. It sure has surprised my H. I really think your W sounds like she wants to nurture you, so let her. Did you tell her thanks for being there for you this past week? L
Its funny I have been trying most of what you suggest! I took a day off, I have come home early. I need to be a bit more creative on doing special things. I have taken to calling her all the time when I am on trips, so she knows whats up. She doesn't want to travel on trips because she doesn't want to go exploring alone while do my business, but that may change.
I have told her to take her time and go to college if she wants to - we have plenty of money to afford that. She is coming around. She says she feels 'worthless'. I don't want to rescue her - I just say I value what she does. She needs to spend some time on forgiving percieved hurts about that - for some reason she feels I devalue har as a person too. I am getting to the bottom of it, but I keep finding surprises.
We have had more intimacy, which has helped a lot. My feelings for her are starting to come around, and I am learning to push her buttons.
