Rocco, I don't remember exactly either, but it's something like this. A man asked how many times he had to forgive someone, seven times? And Jesus said seventy times seven, which means however many times it takes, endless times. Perhaps you should take the advice mother moving on gave me, not to push your religion on your W, it will make her run the other way. so, don't give her religious lectures, unless she asks you to. Stop thinking so much about the past, and think about what you are going to do in the future. The past is just that-past. So, you know all about your failures and you sure as heck can number hers, but where is that getting you? you said you have to forgive to move on, otherwise you are stuck, but it seems you are stuck, anyway, because you almost seem rooted to the same spot. I went back and read your other posts and you say a lot of the same things there that you do here, but you don't seem to know what to do next. I hope you really will listen to the DB coach, because they will give you the best advice for your situation. From what I read in other peoples' posts here, marriages can really be turned around and that gives me hope for mine, let it give you hope for yours. L
Hi verycrazy. As I said I have turned things around somewhat withj the money. She does not question where I spend it, but she does tend to be very insecure about the subject in general, which tends to color the way she deals with other issues. For instance, her campaign of opposition to my switch in employers was rooted in insecurity about money. Also, she fears that our sons will grow up to be deadbeats and sponge off mom and dad. I really don't know where that insecurity comes from - it is not from any spending habits on my part or history of wasting money. We are debt free except a $20,000 mortgage on a $275,000 house and I make $125,000 a year - its not like we are hurting.
My friend and I do not engage in romantic things like exchanging flowers - it is strictly off limits. I let my wife know we are friends, and is has not been a big issue. My wife does know what I am doing in terms of seeking change in the marriage, but she dismisses it. She said it is a bunch of nonsense, don't spout that crap, etc. Basic invalidation of my right to think what I think, take any input I want to take, etc. It doesn't hurt me anymore when she talks like that. I plug on, and try to do what is loving and take positive steps, like employing constructive communication techniques, saying 'thanks for giving your opinion", switching to more positive subjects, etc. I have to control the tone to prevent it from going downhill. It takes two to tango and I won't, not anymore. In this I have learned a lot, from places like this, from my pastor, from books, from friends.
My wife's reactions are actually somewhat positive, on balance. It seems I always have to listen to some verbal assaults, but we have been able to move beyond that in some ways. There has still been no real turnaround in her pride or her willingness to work together or admit fault, so we still have far to go. But, for my part, I am no longer riding a rollercoaster of emotions all the time, and it feels so much better. I can work logically and dispassionately toward solutions. I still don't think my wife has realized the magnitude of the change that is underway, and it is still to be determined whether the relationship will be what she wants when it is on a more healthy footing. Many tell me 'controllers never change', but I am optomistic in what I am doing. Either way, I will have done everything I can do, whether the marriage survives or not. My sons are noticing the differences, which is good.
I suggest avoidance of biblical quotes at this point. They'll look self-serving and besides, using that parental voice just forces the WAS to defend their choices instead of looking at them and that parental voice of the LBSer, can shut down the WAS's inner voice....also found it notable that when you saw your neighbor you "of course" brought up your wife's behavior/Family svcs involvement and marrriage and said it takes two to fail, etc and you see nothing inapproprate or disloyal or Blaming on your side of things.
To be sure, unless you are a crazy liar and I doubt that, your wife IS too controlling...I get that. But I also get the feeling you are leaving a whole LOT out about your own stuff and even what you do say, reveals an amazing lack of awareness about how Your own behavior appears. Same with the repeated behavior that goes against ALL the posts you get, I have to ask, are you getting help for YOU and whatever baggage you have that is Separate from your wife? Your suicide attempt is a lot to hold Her responsible for don't you think? If she is that toxic and there is Nothing YOU can do, then get out for everyone's sake. But like I said, I feel like some pieces of the puzzle are missing and that you have them inside, somewhere. trust that God knows your dark side and loves you anyway....So it's safe to look within and find your own demons-we ALL have them and ONLY WE can deal with them, with God's help...this is simply not all about her. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hey Rocco, I wrote a letter to God, at the suggestion of my pastor and my friend. It took me 5 days to write it. In it, I put everything I could remember that hurt from my first 22 years of marriage. Everything I could remember, and how I felt when it happened, and how badly I felt mistreated when it happened. I poured out everything and I asked God to take it for me. I said 'God, You forgave man for every sin he has committed. You forgave them for the sins of the holocaust, for every cruelty man has ever done to one another. When You bore that cross on your back, and died, this was the weight You carried. If You can forgive all mens sins, You can forgive my wife, too. And You can give me the strength to forgive. Please bear this burden for me, I cannot hold it in anymore'. This exercise helped me tremendously. It is there if I want to add to it, but this exercise was primarily to put the past in God's hands, where it belongs, and to put it in a place of safety. When I relate things from my marriage on this board, it is not out of bitterness but out of my desire to show I have been there. I have no bitterness left for these things. And this exercise, though it is in the past, helps me now as these things keep occuring. I have a much better ability to forgive and move on than I had before.
So, verycrazy, if Rocco is numbering his wife's failures, maybe he needs to do so, one last time, to give them away, one by one. This will help him to be free to move on and do as you and I are saying - to take positive steps forward in his situation.
I could not have said it better, mlc. I, too wonder if Rocco is being completely honest with himself about his own part in this. Perhaps he is passive aggressive. Whatever it is, there is something missing in this puzzle. Rocco, it is rather disloyal to discuss your W with someone who sees her every day. Set some boundaries, not everyone needs to hear about everything or to know all your business. Be prepared to really LISTEN to the DB coach, and work on Rocco, not on your W. L
It is true. When I put down the things I needed to forgive, I recalled things I myself needed to be forgiven for. Rocco needs to separate out his own areas of improvement from the self image he takes away from his broken relationship with his wife. It is a difficult thing, because he needs to accept that he is OK and loved - his standing with God is secure, even though he needs improvement. But he is not worthless or less than a person, which is how these relationships make you feel.
Its hard work to work in so many areas at once, but it must be done. Nothing worthwhile comes that easily.
I too made the mistake of assuming a parental tone with my wife. In trying to draw boundaries around myself to protect myself from control, I took a tone that was too parental and condescending at times. Of course, it led to more tense words and fights rather than progress. I am learning to draw the boundaries in a more constructive way, by erecting them around myself without needing to point them out and by behaving in a way that swtches the focus away from areas of boundary violation. Then I simply do what I know is right in the situation and refuse to engage in the fighting about it. It's very powerful.
maybe you are right, Rocco does need to number his W's faults one last time, and then move forward. I also agree that he is absolutely not a worthless person, though I think he feels that way, sometimes. I just feel that he is very hesitant to move forward, because he is so unsure of the future, but we all are. We just have to let go of the side of the pool and swim. Keep our heads up and don't go under. Rocco, I hope you see that we all care about you and know if you just take that step, you can make it and you will be surprised at your progress. Remember baby steps, not big giant steps. L
Sorry, I was really busy at work and we finally got our kids to bed. You're right, I did hold my w responsible for my suicide attempt and having to be admitted to the Psy. Hospital for 5 days. In fact I told her and blamed her when she called me at the hospital. I was very angry and hurt but it took a big step for me to get there. Now that I think about it, I haven't apolgized to her about that. I think I should and its something I will ask my DB coach tomorrow. What do you think?
And yes, I do have a lot of baggage since I was abused by my paternal grandmother since as long as I can remember until she died in 1991. I was beaten by her and so was my mom who tried to defend me and even at the age of 7, I felt responsible for my mom getting hit. However, I was able to forgive her about 10 years after she was dead back in the year 2000 when I was told by a woman named Mary at our church to start saying the rosary. A week later, I had a dream and I was with my grandmother and my mom and my belly was revealed from all the surgeries I have had to go through and to make a long story short, I told my grandma that child abuse caused it. She started to sob uncontrolably and then I woke up. I thought about it a minute or two and then I no longer hated her because I knew she was sorry. And I hated my grandmother for at least 38 years up to that point.
My wife accused me of punishing her for what she did and that is true because all I wanted from her was an apology which she will not do, therefore, I didn't believe she was sorry. I would be mean, short, withhold sex, etc. So yes, I know I am responsible for my current situaton. My W and her family feel I am 100% responsible which I don't agree with but I can't change that opinion.
My wife has always preached and lectured me many times on how she feels I take for granted for all that she does, under-appreciated, un-loved, no support, etc. She does more then any mother I know, especially with all the issues my son has with ADHD and his other Autistic like characteristics, bringing him to doctors, etc. She pays all the bills, and right now the money is tight, does most of the work aroud the house, the list goes on and on. She has lectured me on how she stood by me when I had numerous surgeries, a rotten boss I had at my previous employment from 2001-2004, helping me through college with editing all my papers, etc. That part is all true.
But who likes to be lectured, she criticize me on any thing I do (see previous post about my Valenties Day gift to her). Heck, she even told me I don't cut the grass the way she does because I take longer then she does. So consequently, the more she put down my efforts, the less I did. And it was a vicious cycle. If I make a mistake, like telling her to take an exit on the highway (she was driving and we were going to the shore) which ended being the wrong exit, she yells, curses and hits me in front of the kids (ages 8 and 6 at the time). The kids then start to hit me from the back seat and I told them they should not do that because I am their father. W responds with, "that's right, only mommys can do that." In that episode, she then tells me I didn't even apologize for what I did. So I turned to my kids and said sorry I got us behind schedule and told my W to go F herself. Did she ever apologize for that? NO! When we got home, I told her "what the hell is your problem? We got to the shore about 30 minutes later and you know what I found out? The Atlanitc Ocean was still there. She says nothing. And that is not the first time either. It happened again the following summer when we were on vacation and were going to vist Mount Vernon and I told her in about 20 minutes, you will come to a bridge, and when you do, be sure you are in the right line. As we are approaching the bridge, she can't get into the right line due to traffic (she was in the far left lane), we missed the exit, and she repeats the same behavior. A couple of days later, I firmly (not yelling) told her to never, ever touch me again in anger, its sets a poor example on the kids, and its strips me of being a man. She just looked at me and said nothing. I would have expected an apology, but no. So I punish her in the ways I have explained. She did tell me later in the evening that she told the kids that she should not have hit me though. That is the last time she hit me. I know she is under a lot of stress, but that doesn't excuse her behavior. When she called me in the hospital after my suicide attempt, and I once again brought that hitting episode up, she tells me its my fault because I stress her out. Therefore, I am not only responsible for my behavior, but hers too? That's not OK with me.
I did tell her in the past that her temper scares me and that I am afraid of her, and if it scares me, especially with my history from my grandmother, its got to scare the children even more. The first time she hit me is when my son was about a year old and she was trying to feed him juice from a sips cup. He was crying, she was crying, I came up stairs (we have a center hall colonial), I don't remember what I said, but I should have said, do you want me to take over? I probably said, and I don't remember, what's wrong? She got so angry about the situation, that she through the sips cup (I don't believe it was intentional) and hit me square in the face. Its a good thing it didn't knock me down the stairs. Again, no apology.
