It sounds like you are sincere in wanting to make things better. I don't think you have the same deep insecurity issues my wife has. I think you probably have not engaged in verbal abuse, but you and your husband have fallen in to a pattern of interacting over the years that has resulted in this situation. The fact that you are here, trying to find out what you need to do, is telling. Your husband probably really does not know what he needs to do to step up. I guess he really needs for you to express that you respect and admire him more than anything. Let him know you respect what he does, respect his boundaries, affirm him for what he is, let him know he is doing a great job at the things he does. As his esteem builds, he will start to step up, perhaps.
Actually, I have always been insecure. I have never felt like a winner at anything, I always felt on the outside of things growing up with an abusive stepfather, and a mother who was unavailable emotionally. I always related myself with the Velveteen rabbit, who wasn't real till somebody loved him. When I met my H, I felt real for the first time ever, and if I lose him I might as well go back to not being real again. My H says I have emotionally and mentally abused him. He says it is all part of the controlling I did. I honestly didn't see it as abusive, but if he feels that way, then he feels that way, and I am willing to work on never doing that again either. I am trying to build his self-esteem, and tell him ragularly how proud I am of him and I admire him for who he is. He says it seems not genuine for the most part. I guess since it has only been three months since I found out about ow and EA, maybe it hasn't had time to sink in to him that I sincerely want to change. Tell me what could you tell your wife that would make her want to change? I hope it's not a horrible wake up call that I got, cause that is one more awful thing to deal with. By you taking control of the car buying situation, she saw a side of you that she didn't expect. Maybe when you do more of the same, she will begin to see that she can no longer run over you. That's how I feel, if my H were to be stronger and more assertive, I would get to be more passive, which is what I would really like. L
"I always related myself with the Velveteen rabbit, who wasn't real till somebody loved him. When I met my H, I felt real for the first time ever, and if I lose him I might as well go back to not being real again. "
>> I wonder if at times something like this is at the root of my wife's insecurity. What I learned in my situation, with the help of many friends, is that my worth as a person does not depend on how much I feel others love me, especially when those others express such negative vibes sometimes. Whatever happens, you will be 'real' and you can start by being OK with yourself, and loving yourself first.
"My H says I have emotionally and mentally abused him. He says it is all part of the controlling I did."
Has your husband spent time forgiving these wrongs he perceives? Has he written them down, prayed about them, and put them in a place of safety? If he thinks you hurt him, it is essential he work on forgiveness. Just writing them down can help - I spent a lot of time just trying to forgive the past so I can focus on what I need to do in the future. You (and your husband) cannot walk in unforgiveness and move forward.
"Tell me what could you tell your wife that would make her want to change?"
>> Sorry, I have not found this yet. In my case, I will have to grab for any control I want - I don't foresee my wife willingly offering any of it. I don't think the issues she has are dealt with just because we bought a car. I do foresee much more work ahead before we are on a footing as two adults in a relationship.
I don't know the details of your husbands emotional affair. I have a hard time drawing the line between a friendship and an emotional affair in any case. I do sense you blame yourself for whatever happened. If what he did was clearly wrong, I would not necessarily blame yourself for it. He does have responsibility and should seek your forgiveness and be building your trust. Don't beat yourself down and think you are all of the fault - that is seldom true and is self defeating in any case. The fact is, you and your husband are both human beings, prone to faults and weakness but also capable of joy, graciousness, strength, and creativity. If you both are able to relate on the basis of these positive things, things can turn around for you.
You know I think that we who are so insecure sometimes hurt or try to control those we love, because we are afraid to let them get really close, because when we do, they leave or hurt us.
My H has not spent time forgiving the hurts, because he says he doesn't know if he can ever forgive. We go to church and Sunday school every week, and for the past few months, since I found out about ow, the lessons have been on building strong families, prayer, and things like that. I know he is hearing all the lessons on how wrong D is, and we should work on our marriages, but I don't know if it is getting through to him yet. sometimes, I think so. I don't think he prays. He just says things like God wants him to be happy. I tell him I do too.
I have forgiven him for his EA, even though he said he didn't want my forgiveness, and said he isn't sorry. Yet at times he has said he didn't mean to hurt me. Then he will say he didn't want me to find out that he was just going to walk out one day. Well, I am glad I found out, because I was totally clueless, and it was a wakeup call for me.
You said you have a hard time drawing the line between an EA and a friendship, but my H and the ow wrote lots of cards and letters to each other, talking about a future together. H said they had not had sex, but in the letters they talked about embracing, and spending time together. She wants him and is willing to wait for him. I have that to contend with, even though H says that he dumped someone very special, to work on our M. I want to believe it, but evidence from several weeks ago shows otherwise.
I can only hope as he becomes more confident in taking over the reins from me, and feels like my changes are real, he will decide our M is worth saving.
I know that your making a decision on the car is only a small step, but it is a step. When you do more stuff, and she sees that you are not going to take her crap, maybe she will see you as a strong man she can't control anymore.
You are right, it is not all my fault about EA, or the other stuff, but he says it is, and I have to accept that for now till he begins to see that he has played a part, too.
Tell me, what other steps can you take to make her see that you aren't playing, that you want to take a more active part in doing things? And is she resistant to the things you are doing? Is she starting to come around on some of them? L
One thing I can say is that your kids may seem like they are ok, but they won't be if you leave, even if they are 17 and 19. My S is 13, and I know it would destroy the image he had of his F. Fathers don't quit. Mothers don't quit. We will get back from our kids what we put into them, and our mistakes that we fix, when we forgive others, they will see that things can be worked out, and they will have a chance at good M's in the future. Otherwise they may be doomed to repeat history. Now who wants that? L
Boy your story is similar to mine I could have written that myself. I am also married to a controlling person. The kind of husband my wife wants would be similar to a dog. You know, roll over, sit, stand, play dead. She has belittled me in front of my famiy and her own family. She also lays the blame game like it 100% my fault. She has hit me in front of my kids (currently ages 11 & 9) but stopped when I finally told her to never touch me again in anger. She swears at me worse then a truck driver. We have been to counseling on 3 separate occassions but she would only go once or twice because she can't take constructive critizism. My therapist told me once about 9 years ago that with my W, its either her way or the highway for me. I get it worse because her family also sees it that way and my W and her family see her as a martyr.
Like you, my parish priest told me I should divorce her because I have suffered physical, emotional and mental abuse. It got so bad, that this past June I tried to commit suicide. My W and her family has not accepted me for over 12 years in the 19 years I have been married.
They all feel its their right to somehow to improve me. My W needs therpy according to my therapist because she has many issues that are unrelated to me. He also told me that my W suffers from partial border personality disorder and recommeded a book called "Stop walking on eggshells." I haven't read it yet but my library is getting it for me. You might want to read the same book.
Now why I would stay in this marriage? My W has slapped my son in the face hard when she gets angry. If I'm not there to take the brunt of it, I fear for my son's well being. On a number of occassions, she has told me that if I want to make this marriage work, I need to do this, that and the other, if you get my meaning. She doesn't have to do anything.
She has found fault with everything I do and now, we are sleeping in separte bedrooms, that was her choice but I think its for the best.
I am distancing myself from her family because a few of them actually get mad and yell at me if I don't agree with their opionion. My father-in-law is always bringing up the topic of catholics and their relegion and gets mad at me because I don't agree with him that the Gospels and story of Jesus is full of crap. I get the same abuse because I vote different then the rest of them, including my W. If I have a difference of opinion, my W will call me "F___in Stupid."
Its been very hard for me and I suggest that you pray a lot like me. I pray that Jesus will protect me and avenge me against them.
Man, what a depressing story. And there are similarities, too many for me to be comfortable. My wife never hit me, but she has resorted to demeaning physical contact (like pinching me when I tried to shut out the verbal abuse) in the past. My wife did slap my sons until they said they would call the police if she did it again. Lately she has mellowed on the physical stuff, but still, every single conversation with a person like these is always about them, them, them. Their disappointments, their troubles, how you have not pleased them, how you need to act differently for them. We went to one marriage counseling session together, once, and afterward I got the fifth degree- it was 17 years ago and it still hurts to think about it today, even though I have forgiven it.
Get 'Nasty People' by Jay Carter, and read it. Don't let her invalidate you to the brink like she has. Nasty people employ invalidation - trying to make you be less than a person in their eyes, to establish their control. There are some ways to deal with it. Don't become an invalidator yourself. If you know your are OK and believe it, she won't be able to hurt you. Remember her problems are hers, they do not make you less. Be on your guard, my friend.
Wel there is nothing loving about control, though sometimes it is rationalized as 'I am only trying to do what is best for them'. Ous basis as people who are loved is not in those other people who love us, it is that God loves us. People will always disappoint.
My friend and I stopped short of such talk about futures together, etc. We try to support each other's relationships. Obviously I am married and trying to work on it. She can't seem to find the one she wants, though.
I have not been able to really make other inroads yet. I need to do the counseling and try to get her involved. I really don't see myself as being controlled anymore, and I don't give her permission to hurt me the way I felt hurt for so long. Our conversations are still almost always about her, what she sees as wrong, what she thinks I need to change, how unhappy she is, etc.
I will get that book you suggested "Nasty People." Boy your W and my W could be twins. Its all about her too and she loves to validate her behavior. When I told her to stop hitting me, she tells me its my fault because I stress her out and make her do it.
She is like a time bomb and sees nothing wrong with her behavior and will not be accountable for her actions. She is 42 years old and has not grown up and gets into these terrible temper tantrums, much like a 3 year old who can't get his/her way. She feels she has to be in charge and control every situation. I have been miserable for 15 of the last 19 years we were married. Ever since we bought our house in 1991, then it got progressively worse after my son was born in 1995. I pretty much kept it in denial hoping things would get better. It only got worse.
Keep praying because that is the only source of strength I get otherwise I would fall apart. I actually am hoping that eventually, her temper will get her into trouble with the law. Maybe only then they will force her to get the help she needs. Of course her family is blind to it and sees nothing wrong in her behavior.
I have begun to distance myself from her family because hanging around them is an emotional suicide. Hang in there.
you're right there is nothing loving about control, the controlled person does not have the freedom to be himself. I realize that and what he considers my controlling ways were never to the extreme of what you and rocco have said. I would never dream of harming him physically. Neither of us is violent to each other. One time, about twenty years ago, we were driving somewhere with family members, and he said something, and I playfully smacked the back of his head, and his hair kinda flew forward. My sister laughed about me knocking his "do", but H realy got upset about it and mentioned this one incident the other week. I told him I had been playing, everyone laughed and I never meant to upset him over it. That is how it has been with him during this, he has dredged up all sorts of incidents that I thought were forgotten or I didn't remember, to explain his reasoning for his resentment and loss of love. If you two can think of any thing that can be done to make him see that I have no intention of ever controlling him ever again, please tell me. I even got him to sign S's report card and other papers. H was actually surprised, because he said he had only signed one or two report cards ever of S's. I told him he is the leader, so he should sign. I know these are just tiny inconsequential things, but if I can do the small things, maybe he will really be happy about the bigger things. Rocco, I hope you can find some strength to stay away from her toxic family, because I'll say the one thing she obviously didn't do when she married you was to leave her parents and cleave unto you, because you are her family now, you and your kids, not your parents nother parents. That is one thing I would never do is take the side of my parents over my H. I know he has taken my side over his parents in the past, which is how it should be. Maybe the priest could talk to the whole family and set them all straight on these issues, cause a suicide attempt is a horrible thing to do. My siters H killed himself about ten years ago, because of depression brought on by alcoholism. M H's cousin's H tried to kill himself a few years ago. UninAZ, maybe when she starts talking about herself, you can turn the conversation around to the two of you, so she won't keep thinking the world revolves around just her. I hope she has stopped hitting the kids, because they don't need to be hit. I hope, too you and she can get to a counsellor that can help you two. Good Luck. L
