I have been married 22 years to a woman who had always treated me like a child. I have 2 children, ages 19 and 17. My wife withholds access to money and transportation, refusing to allow me carry a credit card, or have a car, and fighting like tooth and nails when I try to affect change. She is very critical on a constant basis, of both large and small things. When I switched employers, she harangued me for 5+ years, telling me to 'go back to my job' and that I was 'a bad provider', even though I make a 6 figure income. My wife refuses to listen to what I say, and refuses to get advice or counseling from anyone. She only keeps her own counsel. I have looked at sites that describe 'emotional abuse' and 'excessive controlling behavior' and my situation fits these descriptions closely. Our marriage is largely sexless, and there is little love left. I really never matured as a person before getting married (I am 42 now) and there was not a lot of love in the first place. There is none left in my heart now. I think my wife and I both expected to split 'once the kids were grown' and had even talked of divorce. This will be harder for her, as she has few friends, no career, etc, and resists my attempts to encourage her to make friends or go to school, claiming that she is 'too busy' or that 'she is just the maid'. I am sure my behavior has not always been the best, I share fault, too, but in any case the relationship has not been healthy for a long time. I have never had an affair, never abused her. She is the only person in my life who ever has a problem with my behavior, and she has constant problems with it. Neither of my sons has 'normal' relationships with girls, because I think they have viewed our relationships through the years and been affected. My communication attempts with my wife about the problems always end in blame. My wife has a very hostile relationship with my younger son, which has, at times, resulted in shouting and shoving, but this has subsided in recent months. Our home has dents in the walls from these encounters.
I had resigned myself to a bad situation, even though I probably should addressed it years ago, but events of the past six months have brought it to a head. A have become emotionally close with a lady, a single mom, aged 52, that I have known for a couple of years through the kid's school. The relationship is a very close friendship. We describe each other as 'best friends' and talk about everything, though bashing my wife or complaining about my marriage is 'off limits'. My friend is a big supporter of my marriage and I support her other relationships. It is not a secret relationship. My wife knows as do my friends, but I can't say my wife is comfortable with it. My friend and I are very affirming to each other, and yes, she meets emotional needs that have never been met in my marriage even from the start. I cannot fathom cutting myself off from my newfound emotional support to go back to the lonely hell of my marriage. It is not a sexual relationship, but the attraction is present and is mutual. I have to admit, if it were possible, my friend and I would make a great couple. Seeing how this interaction between my friend and I works has opened my eyes to just how much more there could be in a relationship. It has 'rocked my world', so to speak, and brought me to this decision point. Even if I did get out, it is not clear to me that my friend and I would get together, so I will not base my decision on that. But, right now, she is available and I wonder if I should think about the timing, to lay hold of a possible great relationship, or at least keep the door open for it.
As far as the prognosis for my marriage, I don't think we can get far unless my wife agrees to confront the issues, but she hasn't. I no longer put up with the verbal abuse - I tell her that, if she is going to communicate that way, I will not take it. We just end up arguing and she blames me. I told my son that if he were emotionally abused again, I would keep him safe and leave. At this point I really just want out. I don't want to look back 20 years from now having stayed in a nasty relationship when something more is out there, whether with my friend or with another. I wrote letters to both my wife and my friend, to get my feelings out, and came to the conclusion that I really wanted an excuse to leave. I know, if I get out, I should take time to heal before embarking on another relationship. I believe my friend would stay friends and wait for me while I did so, but who knows. Maybe my friends role will be done as she has shown me what I am missing, even if my future is not with her. My pastor acknowledges the extreme control issue and advises me to 'make my own decision' and says I am probably justified whatever I do.
I have done extensive web searching, but have not really come across a situation similar to mine, which is why I decided to post it.
My suggestion to you would be to buy 2 copies of the 'Divorce Remedy'. You read one copy and try to get your wife to read the other. If she will not read it, maybe it would just help you understand what is going on and you could give the other copy to someone else who needs help.
The ride is over. M 38 WAW 39 08/06 out to give WAW space Bomb 10/06 Back Home 2/07 New Bomb 4/17/07 WAW out 06/07 Trying again 09/07 Another Bomb 11/23/07 WAW moved back home 12/14/07 WAW moved back out 2/2/08 D 12 S 9
Wow unhappy...sounds like your W had issues growing up....my advice....if you want to even think about doing something with this M...use the last resort technique in the divorce busting book by Michelle Weiner-Davis.....what do you want to do?
Will you have any regrets walking away at this point? Do you want to give it one last try? It sounds like she is ripe for some 180s. Has she always been this controlling or did it develop over time?
It has always been this way. I grew up in a home where my mother was somewhat like this, though not as disparaging. I guess I was far too young to know what to look for or to know myself. As far as regrets, I would say, no, not regrets. Maybe some trepidation about being out on my own, but not regrets. Most who hear my story tell me to move on and salvage what I can while I still have some years left. A few tell me to try some drastic measures. I just don't think there is much to fight fore here, or ever has been.
My program now is to first begin by taking control of the things I need to, like the money, the car, etc. My wife can either come along for the ride and pull some fast 180s, or she will watch me disappear into the sunset. I will support her to go to counseling with me if she wants to reverse course. Verbal abuse will be met with a firm 'no, we aren't going to do that anymore'.
Once the boys observe a little firmness and the control issues are dealt with, I will reevaluate the situation. I don't want to slink away from my home from a position of weakness. I will end the marriage, if necessary, from a position of strength. If my wife wants a man like that, we will see if anything is workable at that point. If she doesn't, well, I can't imagine someone else falling in love with a wimp, so I better learn to not act like one in any case.
For my first step, I announced it was time to get a car, and bought it. She chose to be a part of the process rather than just watch me do it, so that was a good outcome.
Okay, my sitch is a lot like yours. I found out my H was having an EA three months ago. It is with ow who is a few years older than him. I told him I would forgive him and wanted to work on the M.. He said he holds a lot of resentment for me, because I was controlling. I told him I no longer wanted control. What I didn't tell him was that when we were first together, he knew I had a lack of confidence and self-esteem, and he built me up and when we got M, he helped me become more confident. Then he turned everything over to me. I became a controlling person, when I got so much more confident in our M. I kept waiting for him to step in and take control more, but he didn't. I would have loved for him to be more assertive as the leader of our house, but he would defer to me alot. I would say when it was time to but new appliances, or I would haggle over the price of a car. I enjoyed some of this, but I always knew in my heart, he was the leader, not me, and I wanted to be more passive, but it got to be that he would always say whatever when a decision had to be made. We talked about colors to paint the house, and he said it would be my way most likely. I said what color would you like. he said I don't know. so, with no input or opinion on his part, we did nothing, and the house still needs painting, the siding needs repair, the AC needs coolant. Now we can't afford all these things at once, so I thought we could do some things ourselves and save money, but he isn't interested in anything except keeping the grass cut. So, over the years we have sometimes neglected each other and he has apparently resented me silently for the most part, although he said if I had come after him sometime, I would have seen him crying. I feel so bad about all this. If my H were like you and really wanting to work at saving the M (he says he is trying), I would be so happy. I don't want to be in control, I want to be the wife, not the H. I want his decisions to be what we do. I want a strong man as my H. I told him I give up control to him. Please take it, but he is so reluctant to decide on anything right now. Since you are on the other side of this, please give me your insight on this, and what a W can do actively to help her H see that she wants him to be the leader. I will admit when he has taken control somewhat in the past few weeks, I have admired him so much for it. Thanks for reading this, and I hope some insight can come from both sides to help us both. L
Your husband sound like he has given up, or maybe never wanted a part of the decisions. Have you looked at your verbal communication style - how you come across with the things you say? Do you say things that are belittling, like 'you won't be allowed to do that anymore'? Do you tend to fight for your ground when things are not going the way you think they should? Is it 'your way or the highway'. If there are these negative communications it can silently say 'you are less than me' when you might be actively saying you want hhim to step up. Graciousness - being willing to admit your own faults, willing to admit when you were wrong, can go a long way. This is totally missing in my wife, who tends to come across as if she is always right, while I am always at fault. Are you critical of big or little things? What is the content of your communication - affirmation, criticism? Being critical all the time also tends to beat a man down, and he will blame himself, and feel he needs to give in on everything to 'keep the peace'. Has there ever been a big decision you disagreed on? Did it go your way or his. If it wane his way, did you put it behind you or keep revisiting it afterward?
I think he was for years relieved that I took over paying bills, and keeping up with things and making small decisions, because he didn't have to worry about them. he says I acted like I was smarter than him. I always told him he was smart, but he persisted in saying I thought I was smarter. He now says I acted like he was stupid. I never said that, ever. But somehow, he got that impression. I used to express my disapproval for things he did that I didn't like, or firends that I didn't care for, like some who were still into drugs, and some I just didn't care for, but I never said he couldn't see them, but he didn't like that they didn't come over to the apartment or our house. I Never said it was my way or the highway, if he put his foot down, I would comply. But he almost never put his foot down. I guess I was over critical, and he used those words, beaten down to describe himself. The only time a big decision was disagreed on was our house. He wanted all brick and I didn't care, I wanted a house in a great, safe location. He wanted those things, too, but when we saw this house, we both fell in love with it, and wouldn't you know it is siding. He told me recently, he didn't want a house with siding, but he didn't say anything back then about not getting this house. Now we have siding issues. I told him he was right, that brick would have been better. So, I think he blames me for that problem, too, but he seemed to want this house, too. Mostly our decisions center around our S, we usually agree on discipline, except he said I would step in and defend our S against him sometimes. I told him that I hoped he noticed that I have backed off that, and let them deal with it themselves. So, He tells me to go ahead with stuff like where we go on vacations, and things like that, he will put in his opinion, and I will go from there. I can argue very well, though, and he says you can't win an argument with me. I told him I didn't want to win any more arguments, I just wanted to be a good wife. I have, whenever he has told me of something else he has remembered from overe the years, that I was sorry about it, and I would always seek to do better. I know I have failed as a Christian wife, and that I have begged his forgiveness. He said he doesn't know if he will ever be able to forgive me. I am grateful he is still going to church with us, so I am hoping something the preacher or one of the teachers says, will make him see that he should try to forgive me and let me make it up to him and work on our M. I am just at a point where I don't know how to talk to him, except to apologize or say I am trying, or to say I will spend the rest of my life making it up to him. If your wife was to step back and allow you to be the leader of the family, how would you react? My H has said maybe he should have put his foot down long ago, I agree whole heartedly. I now wish he had. L
It sounds like you are sincere in wanting to make things better. I don't think you have the same deep insecurity issues my wife has. I think you probably have not engaged in verbal abuse, but you and your husband have fallen in to a pattern of interacting over the years that has resulted in this situation. The fact that you are here, trying to find out what you need to do, is telling. Your husband probably really does not know what he needs to do to step up. I guess he really needs for you to express that you respect and admire him more than anything. Let him know you respect what he does, respect his boundaries, affirm him for what he is, let him know he is doing a great job at the things he does. As his esteem builds, he will start to step up, perhaps.
Actually, I have always been insecure. I have never felt like a winner at anything, I always felt on the outside of things growing up with an abusive stepfather, and a mother who was unavailable emotionally. I always related myself with the Velveteen rabbit, who wasn't real till somebody loved him. When I met my H, I felt real for the first time ever, and if I lose him I might as well go back to not being real again. My H says I have emotionally and mentally abused him. He says it is all part of the controlling I did. I honestly didn't see it as abusive, but if he feels that way, then he feels that way, and I am willing to work on never doing that again either. I am trying to build his self-esteem, and tell him ragularly how proud I am of him and I admire him for who he is. He says it seems not genuine for the most part. I guess since it has only been three months since I found out about ow and EA, maybe it hasn't had time to sink in to him that I sincerely want to change. Tell me what could you tell your wife that would make her want to change? I hope it's not a horrible wake up call that I got, cause that is one more awful thing to deal with. By you taking control of the car buying situation, she saw a side of you that she didn't expect. Maybe when you do more of the same, she will begin to see that she can no longer run over you. That's how I feel, if my H were to be stronger and more assertive, I would get to be more passive, which is what I would really like. L
"I always related myself with the Velveteen rabbit, who wasn't real till somebody loved him. When I met my H, I felt real for the first time ever, and if I lose him I might as well go back to not being real again. "
>> I wonder if at times something like this is at the root of my wife's insecurity. What I learned in my situation, with the help of many friends, is that my worth as a person does not depend on how much I feel others love me, especially when those others express such negative vibes sometimes. Whatever happens, you will be 'real' and you can start by being OK with yourself, and loving yourself first.
"My H says I have emotionally and mentally abused him. He says it is all part of the controlling I did."
Has your husband spent time forgiving these wrongs he perceives? Has he written them down, prayed about them, and put them in a place of safety? If he thinks you hurt him, it is essential he work on forgiveness. Just writing them down can help - I spent a lot of time just trying to forgive the past so I can focus on what I need to do in the future. You (and your husband) cannot walk in unforgiveness and move forward.
"Tell me what could you tell your wife that would make her want to change?"
>> Sorry, I have not found this yet. In my case, I will have to grab for any control I want - I don't foresee my wife willingly offering any of it. I don't think the issues she has are dealt with just because we bought a car. I do foresee much more work ahead before we are on a footing as two adults in a relationship.
I don't know the details of your husbands emotional affair. I have a hard time drawing the line between a friendship and an emotional affair in any case. I do sense you blame yourself for whatever happened. If what he did was clearly wrong, I would not necessarily blame yourself for it. He does have responsibility and should seek your forgiveness and be building your trust. Don't beat yourself down and think you are all of the fault - that is seldom true and is self defeating in any case. The fact is, you and your husband are both human beings, prone to faults and weakness but also capable of joy, graciousness, strength, and creativity. If you both are able to relate on the basis of these positive things, things can turn around for you.
You know I think that we who are so insecure sometimes hurt or try to control those we love, because we are afraid to let them get really close, because when we do, they leave or hurt us.
My H has not spent time forgiving the hurts, because he says he doesn't know if he can ever forgive. We go to church and Sunday school every week, and for the past few months, since I found out about ow, the lessons have been on building strong families, prayer, and things like that. I know he is hearing all the lessons on how wrong D is, and we should work on our marriages, but I don't know if it is getting through to him yet. sometimes, I think so. I don't think he prays. He just says things like God wants him to be happy. I tell him I do too.
I have forgiven him for his EA, even though he said he didn't want my forgiveness, and said he isn't sorry. Yet at times he has said he didn't mean to hurt me. Then he will say he didn't want me to find out that he was just going to walk out one day. Well, I am glad I found out, because I was totally clueless, and it was a wakeup call for me.
You said you have a hard time drawing the line between an EA and a friendship, but my H and the ow wrote lots of cards and letters to each other, talking about a future together. H said they had not had sex, but in the letters they talked about embracing, and spending time together. She wants him and is willing to wait for him. I have that to contend with, even though H says that he dumped someone very special, to work on our M. I want to believe it, but evidence from several weeks ago shows otherwise.
I can only hope as he becomes more confident in taking over the reins from me, and feels like my changes are real, he will decide our M is worth saving.
I know that your making a decision on the car is only a small step, but it is a step. When you do more stuff, and she sees that you are not going to take her crap, maybe she will see you as a strong man she can't control anymore.
You are right, it is not all my fault about EA, or the other stuff, but he says it is, and I have to accept that for now till he begins to see that he has played a part, too.
Tell me, what other steps can you take to make her see that you aren't playing, that you want to take a more active part in doing things? And is she resistant to the things you are doing? Is she starting to come around on some of them? L
One thing I can say is that your kids may seem like they are ok, but they won't be if you leave, even if they are 17 and 19. My S is 13, and I know it would destroy the image he had of his F. Fathers don't quit. Mothers don't quit. We will get back from our kids what we put into them, and our mistakes that we fix, when we forgive others, they will see that things can be worked out, and they will have a chance at good M's in the future. Otherwise they may be doomed to repeat history. Now who wants that? L
Boy your story is similar to mine I could have written that myself. I am also married to a controlling person. The kind of husband my wife wants would be similar to a dog. You know, roll over, sit, stand, play dead. She has belittled me in front of my famiy and her own family. She also lays the blame game like it 100% my fault. She has hit me in front of my kids (currently ages 11 & 9) but stopped when I finally told her to never touch me again in anger. She swears at me worse then a truck driver. We have been to counseling on 3 separate occassions but she would only go once or twice because she can't take constructive critizism. My therapist told me once about 9 years ago that with my W, its either her way or the highway for me. I get it worse because her family also sees it that way and my W and her family see her as a martyr.
Like you, my parish priest told me I should divorce her because I have suffered physical, emotional and mental abuse. It got so bad, that this past June I tried to commit suicide. My W and her family has not accepted me for over 12 years in the 19 years I have been married.
They all feel its their right to somehow to improve me. My W needs therpy according to my therapist because she has many issues that are unrelated to me. He also told me that my W suffers from partial border personality disorder and recommeded a book called "Stop walking on eggshells." I haven't read it yet but my library is getting it for me. You might want to read the same book.
Now why I would stay in this marriage? My W has slapped my son in the face hard when she gets angry. If I'm not there to take the brunt of it, I fear for my son's well being. On a number of occassions, she has told me that if I want to make this marriage work, I need to do this, that and the other, if you get my meaning. She doesn't have to do anything.
She has found fault with everything I do and now, we are sleeping in separte bedrooms, that was her choice but I think its for the best.
I am distancing myself from her family because a few of them actually get mad and yell at me if I don't agree with their opionion. My father-in-law is always bringing up the topic of catholics and their relegion and gets mad at me because I don't agree with him that the Gospels and story of Jesus is full of crap. I get the same abuse because I vote different then the rest of them, including my W. If I have a difference of opinion, my W will call me "F___in Stupid."
Its been very hard for me and I suggest that you pray a lot like me. I pray that Jesus will protect me and avenge me against them.
Man, what a depressing story. And there are similarities, too many for me to be comfortable. My wife never hit me, but she has resorted to demeaning physical contact (like pinching me when I tried to shut out the verbal abuse) in the past. My wife did slap my sons until they said they would call the police if she did it again. Lately she has mellowed on the physical stuff, but still, every single conversation with a person like these is always about them, them, them. Their disappointments, their troubles, how you have not pleased them, how you need to act differently for them. We went to one marriage counseling session together, once, and afterward I got the fifth degree- it was 17 years ago and it still hurts to think about it today, even though I have forgiven it.
Get 'Nasty People' by Jay Carter, and read it. Don't let her invalidate you to the brink like she has. Nasty people employ invalidation - trying to make you be less than a person in their eyes, to establish their control. There are some ways to deal with it. Don't become an invalidator yourself. If you know your are OK and believe it, she won't be able to hurt you. Remember her problems are hers, they do not make you less. Be on your guard, my friend.
Wel there is nothing loving about control, though sometimes it is rationalized as 'I am only trying to do what is best for them'. Ous basis as people who are loved is not in those other people who love us, it is that God loves us. People will always disappoint.
My friend and I stopped short of such talk about futures together, etc. We try to support each other's relationships. Obviously I am married and trying to work on it. She can't seem to find the one she wants, though.
I have not been able to really make other inroads yet. I need to do the counseling and try to get her involved. I really don't see myself as being controlled anymore, and I don't give her permission to hurt me the way I felt hurt for so long. Our conversations are still almost always about her, what she sees as wrong, what she thinks I need to change, how unhappy she is, etc.
I will get that book you suggested "Nasty People." Boy your W and my W could be twins. Its all about her too and she loves to validate her behavior. When I told her to stop hitting me, she tells me its my fault because I stress her out and make her do it.
She is like a time bomb and sees nothing wrong with her behavior and will not be accountable for her actions. She is 42 years old and has not grown up and gets into these terrible temper tantrums, much like a 3 year old who can't get his/her way. She feels she has to be in charge and control every situation. I have been miserable for 15 of the last 19 years we were married. Ever since we bought our house in 1991, then it got progressively worse after my son was born in 1995. I pretty much kept it in denial hoping things would get better. It only got worse.
Keep praying because that is the only source of strength I get otherwise I would fall apart. I actually am hoping that eventually, her temper will get her into trouble with the law. Maybe only then they will force her to get the help she needs. Of course her family is blind to it and sees nothing wrong in her behavior.
I have begun to distance myself from her family because hanging around them is an emotional suicide. Hang in there.
you're right there is nothing loving about control, the controlled person does not have the freedom to be himself. I realize that and what he considers my controlling ways were never to the extreme of what you and rocco have said. I would never dream of harming him physically. Neither of us is violent to each other. One time, about twenty years ago, we were driving somewhere with family members, and he said something, and I playfully smacked the back of his head, and his hair kinda flew forward. My sister laughed about me knocking his "do", but H realy got upset about it and mentioned this one incident the other week. I told him I had been playing, everyone laughed and I never meant to upset him over it. That is how it has been with him during this, he has dredged up all sorts of incidents that I thought were forgotten or I didn't remember, to explain his reasoning for his resentment and loss of love. If you two can think of any thing that can be done to make him see that I have no intention of ever controlling him ever again, please tell me. I even got him to sign S's report card and other papers. H was actually surprised, because he said he had only signed one or two report cards ever of S's. I told him he is the leader, so he should sign. I know these are just tiny inconsequential things, but if I can do the small things, maybe he will really be happy about the bigger things. Rocco, I hope you can find some strength to stay away from her toxic family, because I'll say the one thing she obviously didn't do when she married you was to leave her parents and cleave unto you, because you are her family now, you and your kids, not your parents nother parents. That is one thing I would never do is take the side of my parents over my H. I know he has taken my side over his parents in the past, which is how it should be. Maybe the priest could talk to the whole family and set them all straight on these issues, cause a suicide attempt is a horrible thing to do. My siters H killed himself about ten years ago, because of depression brought on by alcoholism. M H's cousin's H tried to kill himself a few years ago. UninAZ, maybe when she starts talking about herself, you can turn the conversation around to the two of you, so she won't keep thinking the world revolves around just her. I hope she has stopped hitting the kids, because they don't need to be hit. I hope, too you and she can get to a counsellor that can help you two. Good Luck. L
I don't know what advice to give you to make him see that you won't control your H again. I have to admit, if my W stopped trying to control me, I wouldn't believe its genuine. That's not to say that you would be like that, but its based on my current situation. However, I think you are doing the right thing and I would just respect him for now. That is one thing Husbands need. If your H doesn something wrong, it could be a simple thing like forgetting to fold the laundry, I would let that go. Its not worth it.
My W resents me, for what reason, I don't know. This marriage is not real and there is no love between us. They see nothing wrong with their behavior. My W has never apologized to me for her behavior and actions in the 19 years we are married. I have aplogized to her and have gone to confession (I am a Roman Catholic). The thing I hate the most about my W and her family is their PRIDE. They will never admit that they have done anything wrong because they don't feel they ever do, at least in things done to me.
I remember about 8 years ago my W complained I wasn't Romantic enough. I put something together for Valentines Day, which happened to be a Sunday that year. I bought a small 5 by 7 photo album at Hallmark that had the plastic inserts. My theme was days of the week so on the left side would be the day with 12 lines of poetry. For example, MONDAY meant that my W is the MOTHER of my children, WEDNESDAY meant her WORKING with the children and helping me through college. On the left side of the album was cartoon photos I found on the Internet of a couple that were bears. On Sunday, they were drinking a milk shake at a 1950's Drug Store. Then during the week, say on Tuesday, its their Wedding Day, then another day is the birth of their children. By Saturday, the male bear was walking with a cane and the female had a kerchief on her head and they were walking hand in hand on a sunset beach. So the progression of the album is they aged together as a couple.
I don't remember what day of the week she was reading, but she paused and I thought that I must have written something sentimental that would probably bring a tear to her eye. When she paused I asked her "Its touching isn't it?" She responded with, I will never forget it, "NO, ITS NOT THAT, ITS JUST YOUR GRAMMAR IS POOR." That completely took my heart out. I put my heart and soul into that and that was her only comment. I didn't bring it up then, but did years later and she never, ever aplogized, rather she said, "SO, YOU HAVE POOR SENTENCE STRUCTURE, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
The BITCH doesn't get it. About 16 years ago, my W did have a problem with my sister, and I defended her and my sister and I didn't talk to each for 3 years. Yet my W is a coward who can't defend me. One time, I had severe abdominal pain because I have had plenty of surgeries (I don't have a colan and lost another 32 inches of my intestins due to a bowel obstruction). I had complained about my pain at her sisters engagement party. A few months later, I was at a funeral of a friend of hers who finally died from her 3rd bout with Cancer. At the reception, both her sisters and their husbands, came to my table holding their stomach making believe they were in pain and laughing at me. I couln't find a hole to crawl under and left shortly after to cry in my car and go back to work. I sent them an e-mail telling them how bad they made me feel. And do you know what, they complained to my W this past June about the e-mail and it upset my W. When I told her why I sent it, she gave no reaction because she doesn't give a S%%%.
Well, my H has said that it is hard to believe it's genuine, the changes in me, but, I believe since I have been consistent with them, he is hopefully beginning to believe it. I have let things go, like when he started throwing wads of paper from magazine ads in the floor, I think to get a rise out of me. I said nothing, but picked them up later when he was out of the room. Same with reminders to do anything around the house, I no longer tell him the obvious, he knows what needs to be done, when he decides to do it is up to him. I am also showing him and teeling him I respect him. I want to be the kind of wife God meant for me to be in the first place. I also told him that unlike in past years, he doesn't have to do anything to help get the house ready for the holidays this year. He always tires himself out with my demands to help do this and that, but not this year. I know that the wake up call I got about ow was the catalyst for this, I have genuinely been convicted in my heart for the sorry way I have treated him over the years. I cannot imagine what it must be like for you to live with this mess. For her family to be in on the cruelty is awful. At what point did she start acting so badly? has it always been so? Has her family always been so bad? I also say that if my H had given me such a precious gift on Valentine's Day, I would treasure it and even though my family calls me the English Teacher, I would never have said anything about the grammar. Actually, I do have something handmade from my H, coupons he cut out of cardboard, and wrote what they were for on them and put them in a little envelope he made. I treasure that, and showed it to him not long ago. He seemed surprised I still had it. how they could laugh at your misfortune while at the funeral of a friend, is beyond me. I think you should sit this crazy woman down and tell her in no uncertain terms, that she is destroying you. Invite the priest over to help if you have to, doesn't she believe in any act of Christian kindness? L
My W behavior started to get controlling when we bought our home in 1991. We were married in 1987. After my son was born, her behavior got worse. Neither my W or her family sees nothing wrong with their behavior so by me trying to sit her down and explain it to her would only set off a time bomb. The W and her family think believe she is a martyr to live with me.
My w keeps repeating the same story of "I have seen you through your surgeries, your unemployment, blah, blah, blah. Then when I finally had had enough, I explode because I have a passive/aggressive behavior. And then they act surprised that I do this. My W doesn't see that she is destroying me because she believes she is a saint and is perfect. When she really looses it, her favorite expression is "Jesus F%%%%in Christ." She will use this expression in front of my children. Thankfully, the children have started to swear yet. And to top it off, she is a hypocrite teaching CCD classes for 1st graders and instructing them on the 10 Commandments.
She believes in Christian kindness, but not to me. I would love to invite the priest over but that would do no good. We have seen a therapist on 3 separate occassions but she would go once or twice and that was it. The therapist said she can't handle constructive criticism.
My W and her family have this notion that they have to improve me. Quite frankly, I don't need to be improved by people who believe that they are perfect. I don't want to be anything like them because then I would give up my integrity. I love my kids, I do christian work for my church by playing Santa for the poor in my town and help deliver food and toys and reciting the poem "Night before Christmas. I help cook Thanksgiving meals for the poor in our parish who wouldn't have a Turkey dinners. I am beginning to like myself and accept myself even though my W and her family won't do that.
All I want is to be treated with common courtesy and I treat people the way I want to be treated. That is what I told my therapist. My therapist said that if my W was married to a black man, they would call me a N%%%%%. I accept people for who and what they are. Yet her Dad gets angry because he can't convince me the Gospel and Jesus is full of Crap. They get angry that I vote different then they do. Yet I am the one on anti-depressents and these people are just plain evil. Sometimes, I wish God would permit my W to suffer some major physical ailment in her body. Maybe that would wake her up.
I wish my wife was more like you. At least you have the compassion and are not proud enough to admit you have done anything wrong to your husband. That goes along way. Husbands want to be appreciated just like wives do. My wife gets angry at me because she said I am not thankful for what I have. I have 2 great kids and I live with an abusive witch. If I had been smart, I should have called the police and put a restraining order on her. When she gets angry at my son, who at age 11 is very defiant, she severely slaps him across the face, he cries, his face is red and then he goes upstairs. She apologizs but will repeat the process.
I have had to forgive my W and her family even though they won't apologize to me. My W will not forgive me because I got angry at her. I am still angry at them, but I know I have to fully forgive them because that is what Jesus would want.
Thanks for caring. You appear to be a loving person who wants to make her marriage work, like I do, and believe marriage is a committment. However, I can't save my marriage if my W doesn't change her behavior. I am not trying to change it because I have no control.
I will be leaving work shortly and I hope to hear from you again. Keep making your changes that you have to do. When my W continues to swear and yell at me, I completely ingnore her and ask Jesus to protect me and avenge me against the devil.
Hey Unhappy, I hope we can all figure some of this crap out together, hopefully some others on both side of this issue will jump in with some advice for all of us, and maybe one of the experts will jump in, too. I hope the rest of your day was pleasant. Rocco, I honestly can't understand how a whole family is the way they are. Have any of them ever seen how she treats you when you too are in your house? Have they ever seen her slap the 11 year old? I can't imagine slapping my 13 year old S. I used to get angry whe he was a little younger, when he acted up and would spank him, but slapping is crossing a line not to be crossed. At 11, she should mostly ignore the bad attitude of his, because he sometimes does stuff he doesn't mean to do, I'm sure. My S will seem very sullen at times, and I will let him be, he always comes out of it after awhile. You are right you do have to forgive them, Jesus said seventy times seven, which really means endless times. what do you mean your FIL is angry because he can't convince you that Jesus and the Gospel are crap? Is he an atheist? That would be hard to deal with. My FIL and MIL are believers somewhat, but my FIL dumped his fiance over fifty years ago, because she got saved and tried to influence him to change. And they can't stand for anyone to say things about their lack of going to church or anything like that, or criticizing my FIL because he makes his own wine. So, I tread carefully around them. I just thank God that we have brought our S up in the church where I was saved twenty years ago. He is talking about getting baptized, so I don't think FIL and MIL would ever criticize HIS religion and beliefs. My H has attended the same church as long as I have, but nothing has penetrated his heart, even though he knows God's word. I think your therapist says some hurtful things to you saying you would be called a n$%%^&. That surely ain't helping your frame of mind. Maybe the next time your W spews out the vile things at you, you could say I Love You, sweetheart, and walk away. Remember it heaps coals on their heads for you to meet hatred with love. It may not work, but it may shut her down momentarily. Next time she says I have seen you through your surgeries, unemployment, etc, tell her that in your vows it said in sickness and in health, for richer and for poorer, so she ain't a saint for doing what God said to do anyway. I understand you sometimes wishing she were to suffer a physical ailment, so she could then understand, I have sometimes wished God would give my H a physical ailment or an illness, so I would have to take care of him, and could show him that I would devote all my hours to his well-being. He thinks I wouldn't care enough to do that, but I would. He has forgotten whenever he has been sick, I go out of my way to fix things to make him feel better, give him medicine and gatorade, and whatever he wants or needs. I guess that is part of his MLC, to forget these things and remember only the bad, but I am trying to show him the good is there and I am bringing it back. Unhappy, I hope that when you read all this from just today, you can help Rocco with some of the stuff that has helped you to cope, he sounds so dang sad. I guess we are all here to help each other. L
W family never saw her hit my son in the face. They have seen how cruel she is. I remember 3 years ago this past June we were celebrating my kids birthday since they are born 25 months apart. I had the job cooking on the grill. My wife gave me some vegtables (Zuchinni, onions, etc.) to put on the grill. The veggies were in a aluminan sealed bag, which I though quite odd. Anyway, when she gave me the bag, I open the bag and started to put them on the grill. My wife screamed and swore at me in front of her family and my mom, my brother and his family. Her mother consoled her. I told her this past August when we werre discussing our relationship (she brought it up, not me) that I didn't appreciate you belittling me in front of the family. I didn't know that you intended to want the veggies steamed. She said, I should have asked, once again, put the responsibility on me. I said that when my brother saw it, he said to me "That would never happen in my house." My wife said, well, your brother's wife is afraid of him. I said, no, because when I responded to my brother with "why that wouldn't happen in his house, he said, "Because we don't talk to each other that way, especially in front of other people." I said, I made a mistake, and my brother said, "that is no reason to loose control, its not like you put the kids on the grill, its just veggies." My mother was shocked too, but my W's mom consoled her poor baby.
I have been treated that way for years, be at their house or my house, it doesn't matter. When the Divinci Code came out, they would throw it in my face, and for almost 3 years, I said I really don't want to talk about this, please move on to something else, I am not interested, etc. One time I said please 7 times in one day. I told my W I am getting sick of this. They don't respect me enough to knock it off. Personally, I find the book, although fiction, offensive because the way it portrays Jesus. If I were to talk about something to someone and they told me I am not interested, I wouldn't bring up the subject again. But my FIL and BIL kept at it. Once again, this past June I was cooking on the grill for the families with the same people for my kids birthday's. I was on the deck with my brother talking about baseball and the Yankees because we are both fans. My BIL comes out with my other BIL on my W's side and he brings up with that smirk on his face, "Did I and my W go to the movies to see the Davinci Code?" Once again, I said, please, I don't want to talk about this. Then he tells me that I should have an open mind. That pissed me off because I don't like to be told from these people what I need or don't need so I just said No, I don't need to have an open mind. Then he starts up again. For about 10 minutes or so, both BIL's wouldn't stop although one of them did stop after a few minutes. But the other one kept at it. Finally, I said, "Look, I can make it personal too, and then its going to get ugly, and I will be happy to oblige you." Then he shut his mouth.
Later in the evening, it comes to my attention from my W that the BIL told his W (my wife's sister) that I was very rude and harsh to him (again, this is at my house), I hurt his feelings and ruined his day (poor baby, grow up). I told my wife how it all happened but she is telling me I owe him an apology. That is when I lost it. My feelings don't count and I am not allowed to have any. The BIL is just a wuss and can't stand that I stood up to him, after 3 years.
Then my W runs into the other BIL and asked who started it (she didn't believe me) and the other BIL said that they brought up the Divinci Code. So my W gets involved and calls her sister and tells her if I would apologize for my rude behavior (which I was not rude) would the BIL apologize for bringing it up. My SIL said no, that all the way home, he was cursing and swearing in front of their 4 and 2 year old.
During the week, my W is acusing me of causing a rift in the family and have a man to man talk. I said we are a man short. A few days later, she told me if I would apologize, maybe my BIL would forgive me (as if I gave a s%%%). I told her can I tell him how he made me feel? She said no and that her family expects me to apologize for my behavior.
The next day, I attempted suicide and was in the hospital for 5 days. I feel like a rape victim who is guilty. I was in the hospital on Father's Day too.
I graduated from college this May with honors with a BS in Accounting and invitations were sent out for my party 3 weeks prior to Father's Day. But two days after my kids birthday party (two weeks prior to Father's Day), I started calling my family and friends and cancelled the party because I was in no mood and why and I told them about my W behavior.
My sister, who was married to an alcholic said that when her boyfrind met my wife the first time, his comment was "Boy is she full of herself." I sometimes wonder what I did to deserve this.
I can't bring myself to tell her I love her and walk away because I don't love her. Quite frankly, I don't even like her. In the hospital they told me that I married someone like my grandmother (I grew up with my paternal grandparents because my family was poor) who used to physically, mentally and emotionally abuse me and my mother.
I know if I didn't suffer from such low self-esteem when I was growing up, I wouldn't have married her. But people like me are used to this because its what they are comfortable with and don't know of any other way.
I don't know what it would be like to have a woman who loves me for me. Even though they don't accept me, I am learing to accept myself and like myself too. I learned from Divorce Busting that we shouldn't continue to improve ourselves because we don't accept ourselves. We all make mistakes, we're human.
Thanks again for your concern and it means a lot to me.
Wow, the details are different and your case is more extreme, but there are many similarities to my home. My sons tell me my wife used to slap them until they got about 14 years old and told her they would call the police unless it stopped. I have also been belittled, but we don;t have much family or friend contact so not so much in front of other people. Aperson like this can take something that should be a life joy and totally ruin it. For example, when I got a big promotion and a raise, my wife did not even want to tell my kids about it, because they might get greedy about spending the money and she has always hated my job. She was very adamant saying 'promise me you won't tell them'. I have taken to just communicating with them directly myself and getting her out of the loop completely. Another example - when my Mother died a couple of years ago, my wife did not want to spend the money for her and the kids to come to the funeral. They all sat home, as I was 800 miles away and could not force her to bring them. I had travelled up previously to her bedside as she went into her final crisis, not knowing how it would turn out, and I remained there to help plan the funeral. Plus I was grieving, and in no shape to fight it with her. I had to make a lame excuse and work hard to patch it up with my Dad (my brother still has not forgiven it).
My wife is not one to swear (though she has in the past) - her techniques are more low key. Sighing, disapproval, critical comments - I once counted 30 critical comments in about 2 hours before I gave up and quit counting - the entire content of the communication is often just one after the other.
In dealing with it, Rocco, write it all down, like you are here. Give it to God, and ask Him to bear it for you. Then start to look for little positive steps you can take to assume a position of strength. Get into position where, emotionally, they cannot hurt you anymore. They you will have the clarity to leave or stay and work, whatever is right.
Thank you for listening. This is a great place to vent. Both of my kids are closer to my W than me. S is 11, D is 9 and they both have ADHD, but my Son has a more severe case.
When she hits him in the face again, I will tell her that I am not comfortable with hitting. Of course she will blame me because she takes no accountability for her actions. When she hits him again, Do you think I should call the Police? I have a small tape recorder that fits in my pocket, so do you think I should keep it handy when she has one of her temper tantrums?
I am very sorry about your Mother's passing. That is so sad. Worse, she didn't allow your children to say goodbye to their gradmother.
My w tried to pull that same crap with me about a month ago when my uncle died. It was my Mom's brother and my mom now has had to bury both her parents (her dad was killed by a hit & run driver while he was walking, and they never found the guy when my mom was 10), and all 5 of her siblings.
My w calls me at work and tells me she doesn't like going to funerals and reminded me of that because she had a bad experience when she was 16 when she went to her first funeral. She's OK with the mass, but doesn't want to view the body. Then she adds, I will drop you off at the funeral parlor and the kids and I will be at the church. That pissed me off.
Ayway, when I got home, I talked to my children about the funeral process and my wife butts in and says "They are not going to the viewing." I turned and said to her "You know, these are my kids too and they are old enough to make up their mind." I explained the viewing, and my son was adament that he wanted to play game cube that day (which was a Saturday). I told him that was not an option and we are going.
I first started to explain about viewing the body. I told them that the viewing is a way for people to say goodbye to their loved ones and out of respect for grandma. I told them that they did not have to approach the casket, they could sit in the back or even go outside if they chose to. My daughter asked some simple questions, such as what does the body look like, and I said its like they are asleep, much like when the cat died a few months ago. She asked if the body is ugly and I said no, it has makeup. She asked if she ever did it before and I said no. So she said, then I want to go. I said, OK, but remember, you can change your mind and not have to see your uncle, if you decide at the last minute you don't want to. I was very clear about that. I then explained that their will be a short mass, then their will be buried and then it will be a luncheon to celebrate that their loved one is in heaven.
The day of the funeral, I again told my kids they didn't have to approach the casket, and told them it was a closed casket since I was at the Wake the nite before. When we got to the funeral parlor, my daughter decided not to and told me she was afraid to so I told her that was ok and she didn't have to.
That evening my wife was angry at me because I forced my son to go. I said, I didn't force him to go, but out of respect, he had to go to show support for my mom. She said, no, you forced them to go to the viewing to approach the casket. I said, no, you were not listening then because I told them 3 times they didn't have to approach the casket and that they were old enough to go to the wake. I could tell she wanted an apology from me. The family still wants me to apologize to my BIL. In all honesty, I will not apologize and I would have rather been in the World Trade Center on 9/11 then apologize to these people.
I do pray, but its more then I can take right now. I know I need to be patient, but its not easy as you can imagine. I realize I married a 3 year old who still has temper tantrums.
Thanks for caring. I sometimes wonder if I should just divorce her and be done with it. My W and her family have crushed my self-esteem and I am working to get that back.
I still wish to save this marriage and I know changes need to be made, but I will not tolerate her bad behavior. I have been ignoring her evil comments but how much should I ignore. For example, one Saturday last month she said we need to do some yard work. I said, OK, I will be out in a minute as soon as I finish breakfast. She was outside trimming the hedges with my children. I said to her, I will start in the back yard and weed out the flower garden and the swingset area. Her response to me was "I don't give a F%%% what you do!" I ignored her. But should I ignore her, especially since her comments are in front of the kids." Thankfully, my kids don't swear, YET.
The next day, I am cleaning out the fridge while she went to pick up a couple of freinds of my kids for a play date. She calls me and tells me that they are eating lunch out and will be going to Rita's (its an ice cream parlor) and wanted to know if I wanted anything. I said sure, I thanked her and requested italian ice.
What's more weird about her behavior, she makes me dinner every night. I can't figure out what she is doing.
Hey VeryCrazy, I don'y put you in the same category as Rocco's wife or mine. There are emotional abuse issues in both his and my case. You have not related anything that equals emotional abuse in my book. Both Rocco and I could be very biased against women, but your case seems different to me. Your positive attitude and course of action speak well for you. And Rocco says the same, so treat that as 2 votes of confidence.
I think you and your husband promarily have communication diffuclties and a style or relating that has grown worse over time and provoked this crisis. And you want to do whatever you can to change and you admit fault. These things are typically missing in a hard core controlling abusive personality. You keep plugging, and you will get there. Just remember, try to give respect, and act as if you deserve respect. Mutual respect can go a long way toward healing.
I want to say that I am learning alot from both of you. I am learning that my actions, and my lack of appreciation, and my neglect, have really caused my H alot of pain, anger, resentment and contributed to his getting invloved with ow. I am seeing two extreme cases here, and know I will never get to that point, although I have been controlling, I have compassion for my H, and the pain I caused over the years. If there is any way that could truly convince him that I have changed and am continuing to change, I would do it. I am showing H more respect, and I feel that he is starting to respond in small ways. I don't know how much he is still contacting ow, but although I am very bitter about that, I don't mention ow to H, or try to give much thought to her. I am hoping as I drwa him closer to me and our family, he will pull away from her. Unhappy, I don't understand why your W wouldn't want the kids to know about your raise and promotion. That is something that they should know, as it will make them proud of their daddy, and kids are naturally a little greedy anyway. But so what, they should get benefit from you making more money. Our S knows when income tax time is and knows we get alot of money back, so of course he wants something, and he as part of the family gets it. Kids shouldn't have to be kept out of stuff like that. To me it sounds like she was the greedy one who wanted the extra money to maybe spend as she saw fit. I want my H's raise to go towards getting us out of credit card debt. My H said I kept our S away from his parents over the years, but we also have tons of pictures of him there with them. I know when he was a baby, I had a hard time leaving him with anybody, because it took eight years to have him, and I guess I held on very tightly. My H always said I was a great mother, though. I have been trying to make up as much as I can, and suggest times for S to spend lots of time with them. MIL and FIL are actually recognizing the changes in me and commented to H about them, and said they like the new me. I have not tried to keep S from experiencing funerals or visitations, even though I was traumatized at a young age by one. We just explained like you did about what would happen, and that S didn't have to go up to view the person. He actually chose to go up each time to see the person! I am wondering what you could differently to deal with your W, Unhappy, maybe when she starts to criticize or complain, you could tell her that you would like to hear her solutions to the problem. Maybe there is some way to take the wind out of her sails. I am sorry about your mother, that's really tough to lose a mother, especially when their is no support from your W. Rocco, I think you should try to do more to keep the kids out of her way when she is in a foul mood, maybe even sit them down for a talk about what mommy is going through, and tell them to come to you when they sense a bad mood coming on. About the Da Vinci code, I am not Catholic, but I still find that whole thing offensive, too. You don't tell people that their Christ did those things, when we know he never married or had a child. But, I will say one thing, your reaction to it is all wrong. don't go on the defensive when they attack you on these matters. When they say have you gone to see the da vinci code, just smile and say I don't care for fairytales. And tell your W you owe nobody apologies for anything, her family and extended family needs to get a life and stop trying to control yours. And tell her when she tries to demand apologies from you for them, tell her that you were stating your mind and will not back down from what you believe. Congrats on your degree, and you obviously have a lot of strength somewhere to get through school. So, put some of it to use to stop being put on the defensive with them. Find new ways to answer, because they already know how to get a rise out of you, and they know exactly how you will answer each and every time. Stop it, because Jesus doesn't need to be defended from people who know better. They know what they are doing is wrong, but can't seem to stop. So, give them reactions that show you are not concerned about what they say, because in the end they will PAY for what they are doing in this world. I can see you have a little sarcasm in you, because you said you were a man short in a man to man talk with BIL. so, put some of that wit to use and plan it out if you have to, and see if they don't know what hit 'em. Try it tonight and tell us what happened. I am just saying from a female perspective what would work with me from my H. I think a little tough love for me is sometimes warranted from him. Good Luck to us all! L
Whoa, UnhappyInAz, VeryCrazy has given me support that I need to hear. It speaks well of you too that we are not biased against women, although we could be. I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't trust a women enough to remarry. Been down that road once.
I left a message with my divorce attorney. I haven't filed for divorce yet, but in speaking to, I guess his secretary, she told me that I have to stand up for my son if my W has one of her temper tantrums and slaps him hard in the face, enough to make his face red. My attorney just called me back and said for me to contact the police.
VeryCrazy,
Based on UnappyInAz, please provide us what emotional abuse your H has committed against you so we can support you too. I also agree with him that you are making the right steps to repair your relationship with your H and mutual respect is very necessary in a marriage. It appears that your situation is not as difficult as ours and looks to be salvagable. I don't think my marriage can be saved, unless God performed a bigger miracle then the parting of the Red Sea. For my marriage to work, my W has to really be sorry for her behavior and even then, it will take a long time to heal because I wouldn't trust her. Secondly, her family needs to mind their own F%%%%in business. Thirdly, my W needs to seek medical attention for her issues that have nothing to do with me. She is very insecure, mostly about her weight WHICH I HAVE NEVER BROUGHT UP, EVER. However, I am angry enough to call her a FAT, DISGUSTING BITCH if she continues to treat me like a piece of S%%%. I know that is against Divorce Busting, so I hope I don't do that, and keep my integrity. Lastly, she needs to go to Confession to a Priest. That will make me start to believe that she is really sorry.
You're right about my reaction because they enjoyed getting me angry. I was told the same thing in group therapy and from my therapist that to just smile and walk away. I did get defensive and I expected them to knock it off if I didn't want to discuss it because that is how I would be. My therapist told me they won't treat me with common courtesy because they don't know how and will not accept you for who you are.
I went to church during my lunch hour and the priest told me not to defend Jesus because He can take care of himself and if they don't amend their ways, they will PAY for it in the end. That is what you said too.
When I get really angry, I can't even think straight because I can't think of what to say when it first happens to me. To me, my attitude has begun to change, and in my mind, I have to treat them as if they were a BUG on a TREE in a different country.
But wife is still sharp with me when I am home. When my son was done with his shower, I started to go upstairs and told my so I will be right up, and the W responded, you're a day late and a dollar short. I ignored her, but its getting more and more difficult to ignore her and I am ready to just tell her to Drop Dead.
Rocco, please try to make it work, if you can, because we must suffer for what is right. Take pictures of your S's face when she hits him, and keep them in a safety deposit box, they are pretty inexpensive, I got one for some of my stuff. Yes, if she is really abusive to your S, call the police, maybe that will shake her up, or maybe it will cause her clan to form a circle around her and try to keep your kids from you. How often does she do this? Is it daily or what? What preceeds this? I am glad you are not biased against women, because we sometimes can admit our mistakes, and want to fix what we break. Believe me I would never marry again, if it came to that, but because I believe in death do us part. My H hasn't done alot of bad stuff to me, but this EA he is involved in has hurt me terribly. he has said things to me about how awful I am, some of it true some of it exaggerated. I can't get used to him now and then deciding he has to rehash the same old accusations, the same old situations in which I failed him. It hurts to sit there and take it while crying my heart out. I try not to cry when he says these things, because they all say H's don't want to see a whimpering weak W. I hop what you say is right, that our M is salvageable, because I don't think H has decided whether to leave me, because last month when we had a confrontation, he said he would leave when school was out for the yaer. Then later he said he had no plans to leave. So, I don't know where I stand with this. I know at one time he and ow were planning for him to leave me when son turns 17. or maybe that was the date they were going to have sex for the first time. I don't know, it was a date marked on a calendar, for "H's and ow"s date". I am not supposed to ask about things likie that, because it can set us back. You know though I heard something the other day that was so true, If God can resurrect his only son from death, he can resurrect your marriage from death, too. Hey, maybe when you start showing her that you aren't going to give her and her family the reactions they love, then maybe something positive can happen. It is a game with them, and you are the pawn, so stop being the pawn, and they can't play the game anymore. I am serious, try this tonight if they bait you and tell me what happens. L
Why should I have to suffer? The red in my Sons face doesn't last that long and then its gone. I wish my son would report it in school. My wife becomes violent when she has had a bad day and doesn't get her way. She throws basically, a temper tantrum. She has to be in charge and control everything.
That is a scary thought because my wife will lie and make stories up to my kids so they won't want to be with me. Sadly, I see that as a reality. I wish they were 17 or 18 so they would see how it is, but their too young to understand and this is what they know.
My marriage can't work because I was the one trying to make it work, but how much crap does one have to take? My wife and her family believe she is an angel, but to me, she is the angel of death. I'm worn down and exhausted.
I am tempted to find comfort with another woman just to punish her, but that would go against my faith and my integrity. Quite frankly, I don't care if she has sex with another man or men. My sister told me my W will never have another man in her life because nobody would put up with her nonsense and abusive behavior.
I have to agree with you about your statements about God. But my W is too PROUD, which is biggest Sin one can commit. Jesus can send all the help and graces to my W as much as He wants, but since humans have a free will, many reject His graces and side with Satan.
You know, the best course I ever took in college was a Philosophy course called "The Human Person." I had to take a Philosopy course and their were a few to choose from. But the Human Person talked a lot about the Soul.
My professor, a French Canadian, and not a priest said something in class I will never forget. He said,
Human Beings need to Feed themselves three things in order to survive, both physically, mentally and spiritually in order to suceed and have a happy life. They are:
1. Human Beings need to Feed their Body, otherwise they won't survive. 2. Human Beings need to Feed their Mind, to get a good education, a good paying job and things like that. However, many of them don't read the right things either which is not good. 3. Human Beings need to Feed their Soul, otherwise they will loose it. Sadly, the majority, the ones who are Proud and give themselves credit in what they do, not God, are spiraling down in the wrong direction.
I mean we have to suffer spiritually sometimes. As soon as you see the red on S's face, take a picture. If you are with your kids more and take them places and interact with them, and do stuff with them around the house, they will see that it isn't true what she says about you. Are you letting them into your life? Do you work such long hours that you never see them? yes, I see that she is an awful person, but you have to rise above the crap she and her family fling at you. You are in a deep depression, it seems and can see no way out of it right now. Are you taking anything for it? I don't see how another w would do your frame of mind any good. It is adultery, hon, and that ain't right. I don't know what sin is the worst, unless it is to reject the salvation of Christ, but, except for that a sin is a sin to me, and all sins can be forgiven. You should try to stop being so afraid of her and her family. What is the worst they can do to you? Kill you? I doubt it. Make your life miserable? They are already doing that. Stop being so concerned with their souls, they know right from wrong, let God sort them out one day. You need to relax on that point, because they don't care anything about that at this point, and you can't shove it down their throats. Try to show some strength to her, don't go crawling away from her with your tail between your legs. She needs to see your strength. You said she becomes violent when she has a bad day, and has a temper trantrum.. How do these usually play out? Are you a captive audience of hers when she does this? Or could you just change one thing, by walking out of the room as though you had something that needed taken care of in another part of the house? Could you go ask the kids to go for a walk with you? Try something, I am serious or when you keep doing the same thing you will keep getting the same response over and over and over. You, know philosophy is all well and good, but it isn't helping you to do what you know you need to do. If you are unable to do it for yourself, do it for the kids, Just be a lion for the kids, they will appreciate it.
Rocco, I didn't mean that to sound harsh, so I am sorry if it did, but you really do need to stand up for yourself more, and pick your battles. You already know any discussion over religion is going to just hurt you and give them entertainment. and you know that your W's temper tantrums are awful for you, so please do something different this time, okay. Let me know how it goes. Unhappy, tell him how you have dealt with this stuff and is there anything he can do differently to get a different response this time? You two are almost in the same boat, although his seems to be sinking faster. I want to know that something I have said could help, but I am the one who is the bad wife. Trying to do better, but still. And has anything at all positive happened since you started taking more control? L
Well, I did something I never thought I woud do. Based on the advice of my therapist, group therapist, two priest, I filed a police report against my wife. I was scared to death and I did not want to mention my name or hers. But once I began the discussion, the officer said that I was not allowed to leave until I did.
I requested at this time, I did not want to file a restraining order and the police will only call me on my cell phone. Boy was I scared. I am still shaking from my decision and I hope I did the right thing. The officer told me I did because first of all, she should not slap your son in the face that hard to leave a red mark. She shouldn't slap your son in the face at all. He asked me and I told him I did nothing when my W did this and he agreed with me that I am as guilty as she is.
Secondly, I am tired of being treated so horribly by her and she sees nothing wrong with that behavior. I am living in fear as it is because of her terrible outburst if she has a bad day. I can't and shouldn't have to live like that. The officer asked if I feared for my life. I said no, but I am getting mentally and emotionally abused by her now, and she has hit me in the past.
I hope I did the right thing. What worries me to is now DYFS is going to get involved and I hope they don't contact home number. I told the officer to contact my cell phone only and hopefully DYFS will do the same thing. That is what scares me the most. Will DYFS call me or call the house.
I am so worried that I am having a panic attack right now and I don't have any meds for my panic attack.
The officer told me that DYFS will not remove the kids but will probably remove her. The officer said maybe this is the 1st step to light a fire under her ass to get the help she needs. She could have a chemical inbalance, Bi-Polar or any number of things.
I guess since I made this move, I probably sabatoged my marriage in the process. What do you think?
Good for you, maybe she will get help now. DYFS will probably come to your house to investigate. They will most likely either make her leave, she can go to her family, but they will most likely leave the kids with you. If you asked them not to call your house, they will most likely just call your cell, but did the police tell DYFS that? Yeah, you did probably sign the death warrant on your marriage, if she doesn't get the help she needs and then the whole family gets help and she wants to finally face up to her responsibility in everything, and really wants to reconcile with you. But she will probably get court ordered therapy of some sort, I guess. Can you take the kids somewhere until the police do their thing? Good Luck, things should hopefully start to get better now, at least with you and the kids not having to be afraid all the time. Just watch out for her family, they could use your history against you, so get a lawyer and be prepared. L
I hope I did the right thing. Both of my therapist, two priest, my mom, and 2 friends told me I should file a police report. You are not living in a safe marriage to begin with and you won't be because your W will never change. They all said to take care of myself first and then the children.
My children are love their mother more then me and are much closer to her then they are to me. So if something happens to remove her from the house, they will be devastated.
I should have postponed what I did this evening. I have my frist therapy session with a DB Coach this Saturday and I should have run it by her first. But what is done is done. What I really should have done, but didn't think about it was ask the police officer at my job. I am an employee of the State of New Jersey. If I ran it by the officer at work, I would have asked the same questions and probably would not have filed if he told me I would have to give my name, w's name and address.
Don't second guess yourself, you went with your gut, and did what you felt you had to do, so just stop worrying about it for now. Your children will be hurt, but if you tell them mommy is sick, and she needs help and can't be around them so much for awhile, they should understand better. Like you said what is done is done. You never know, this may the the catalyst for some major changes in her. Good Luck and let us know what happens. Unhappy, where are you tonight? Come here and help. L
I read your posts and felt horrified by what you were describing, and sad for you. But then I realized that if a bunch of women wrote such things about the men they married and STAYED with all these years, we'd tell them to take some dang responsibility for THEIR lives, to GAL, and stop the blame game. You all say your wives blame you for all the problems.....gee, wanna look in the mirror a bit? I know, not all of you do that. But the biblical quote about a plank and a splinter in the eye, comes to mind.
Besides, if ALL the things you say are true, either stay for the kids where applicable and forgive, or get out. Are you reading the DB books, or wanting a place to justify your desire to walk out on the M's?
Sorry about your pain but I have to say, I started to read your notes again, and pretended you were all women, and that's when something in me decided to speak up about it. I could be way off, it's all imho. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Steven Covey quoted someone else with the following: DON'T ASSUME YOUR OPPONENT'S MOTIVES ARE MEANER THAN YOUR OWN. WE ATTRIBUTE BAD BEHAVIOR IN OTHERS TO BAD INTENTIONS, WHILE JUSTIFYING OUR OWN BAD BEHAVIORS WITH OUR GOOD INTENTIONS. TRY ASSUMING THE GOOD...
an interesting quote. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I have begun to do some of the things you suggest, verycrazy. A lot I learned from the 'Nasty People' book. For instance, I will leave a conversation when the emotional abuse begins. I just say "we can talk again when we can talk as two loving adults". Then I leave the conversation. This takes you away from the situation so you will not hear hurtful things (or say them). It puts you in control. In doing this, I have seen mixed results, but it has provoked change. Do not argue or mix it up when you hear things that challenge your boundaries as a person. Just go on with what you were saying or doing. You can say 'thank you for sharing that' or somesuch, and just keep going on with what you know is right. The controlling behavior will not work, and something else, anything else, will happen. So she gets resentful of you - she will get over it or she won't - its not your problem, it is hers. Do not put up with any physical abuse - excuse yourself or your kids from the situation. Take a walk, anything. Rob her of her ability to invalidate, strike fear, or control the situation.
You did the gutsy thing and,in my opinion, the right thing. You are taking a step that will provoke a crisis in your marriage. You didn't sign a death warrant on your marriage, it was dead anyway. It may be that a miracle occurs, and it is resurrected, but you took action - justified action - and that will stop the downward spiral one way or another. You need to take some control, in your case this is what seemed to be called for. Now start by protecting yourself - you may need to get away as verycrazy says. More pain is in store, but beyond that lies peace and forgiveness for you. I hope beyond it lies healing for your wife and children, too. Right now, your children need for you to be strong and whole. It is about you first, them second, and your wife third, I am afraid, because without you they have nothing. So be strong and take care. It will work out.
Hi. This is not about blame, its about change. And, yes, it is about 'getting a life', because you can get into the situation where your 'life' is taken from you if you allow it.
But I don't think the situation boils down to stay for the kids or leave. I submit Rocco should not 'stay for his kids' - his kids are growing up in an abusive atmosphere that needs to change for them, one way or the other.
Do I want a place to justify my desire to leave my marriage? No, because, first, I need to understand what I want and who I am as a person before knowing that that is the right outcome. As I have said, I will not leave my marriage, if that is the outcome, from a position of weakness, but from one of strength. I will first work on seeing myself as a whole person not as one who has allowed himself to be beaten down into something less.
Should we look in the mirror - of course. Are we perfect - of course not. But, is our behavior clearly abusive? No, I would say that there do exist lines which should not be crossed, that when they are abuse has occured. These are fairly consistent between sources - look them up. In the case of Rocco and myself here, I would submit there are clear cases of abusive relationships. And there is no evidence I see in either myself or Rocco's case that we ourselves have done abuse - I know I have not.
So, yes we should apply introspection but no, I don't see this as misunderstanding of intentions. I don't know my wifes intentions, I do know her hurtful behavior.
Thanks for sharing and helping me as best you can. I don't know my wifes intentions either and like you, I only know how hurtful she has been to me throughout the years.
I spoke to the police officer this morning and told him I stretched the truth regarding my wife's abuse to my son. I told him my children love their mother very much and she loves them too.
I told the officer DYFS does not need to be involved because my W hit my Son one time in the face (actually, its about 3 or 4 times) and I over-reacted my own hurtful feeling to punish my wife. I am trying to save my marriage and have my first session this Saturday to try and save it (if it can be saved). By reporting this to DYFS, it just sabotaged my intentions to save it. Unfortunatly he had to report it. I just hope DYFS calls my cell phone and not my home phone.
I told him because of what happened last night with my discussion with him, I could not get to sleep at all, and I doubled my meds last night and took 2 pills of Ambien (a sleeping pill, 20mg) to go to sleep and 2 pills of my anti-depressent ( which is supposed to relax me and still had trouble getting to sleep.
I am starting to feel the pressure in my mind and in my body that I felt when I attempted suicide this past June. I have no appetite and have lost about 12 pounds in the past 2 weeks. I'm 5'9" tall and weigh 155 lbs so its not that I need to loose the weight.
My wife is not abusive to the kids, only to me. But she feels justified in her words because I make her do it by stressing her out.
If I had the same behavior as my wife and treat her like she has treated me over the years, I would hope I would get arrested. All she does is correct me for everything I do that I know I can't make her happy. The divorce busting book says the 1st person to make you happy is you.
There is a big differnce between my wife and I. When I came home from the hospital from a suicide attempt this past June, she wanted to have a conversation about our relationship that Friday night. From her end, she tells me that nothing she does makes me happy and we should file for divorce. At that time, I told her you're probably right. I could tell she was holding back tears. Well we talked for about 20 minutes or so, and I did a lot of the talking which is unusual. I told her I don't like being around her family because they make me sad and feel bad about myself when I am in their company. Worse, it turns me into a person I don't want to be. Some members of your family are just too toxic for me to be around.
Secondly, I said to her we can't even have a discussion about anything if there is a difference of opinion. I said, you brought up a discussion about a book I read (she did not read it) written by Kevin Tradeau (spelling incorrect) about pharmaceutical companies and how its all about the money and they don't care if the patient lives or dies. W told my he has been sued by these companies, yada yada yada. I told her because I didn't agree with you and I didn't agree with everything in the book, you felt it your right to call me "F%%%in Stupid." I don't do that to you. She defends herself saying that I was trying to change her opinion. I said that was not true and if it was, I still didn't cuss you out.
I ended the conversation by telling her that I hated her for putting me through so much torture that I had to be hospitalize.
That night (of course we are sleeping separately) I couldn't get to sleep. By the next morning in reliving our conversation, I realzie that telling her I hated her for what she did to me was very wrong.
That Sunday, I wanted to talk to her after we put our children to bed and I told her that I was very sorry for telling her I hated her. I told her I went to confession the day before and told the priest the same thing. I was upset and angry at her at the time.
She told me that I really did hurt her by that remark. I said I know and I am truly sorry about that. I then added, that throughout the years of our marriage, you have told me, several times "I really Hate you right now." I said the 1st time she said that was in about the 3rd year of our marriage (no kids, no house at the time, living in a condo) and I remember holding my emotions in until I got in the car and cried all the way home, I even stopped by our church where it was quiet and cried there too. I told her I told my mother and mom only told me they are just words.
My wife said words do hurt and I agreed. The difference is she never, ever even attempted to say she was sorry, not when she said it and not during our discussion.
Now I am I supposed to feel when she behaves that way? Its clear to me that my wife hasn't loved me for years. Why she still makes me dinner is beyond me. I told her this past August that she doesn't care for me at all at least since my son was born.
Hey, I have to go off to work, but slapping the kids is not OK, it is ongoing abuse, with no remorse, on the part of your wife, so you did the right thing. And you are doing the things that will save your marriage. Because it can only be saved by going through the fire of change. You have to stand tall, as one who knows what is right and does it, first. You will be the one who can change things for yourself, your kids, and your wife. Don't trust just my voice, trust your inner voice. You have plenty of validation in your course from those around you. Of course you aren't perfect and of course you have said things that you wish you could take back. But, don't believe the invalidator - the situation is not all your fault. Do not blame yourself just because they said you should. YOU know what you are doing that is right or wrong - choose to do what is right, take the high road, stay above it, but insist on change. You will succeed in making things better, either within your marriage or out of it.
I am so distraught on my poor decision of going to the police that I feel like throwing up. Is there a way that these posts can be sent to Michele? HELP, I'm DESPARATE
Rocco, stop secong guessing yourself. DYFS is going to get involved now, they have to. It will be a good thing. I would be careful who I told about doubling meds, too. I am sure the police know you only called back out of fear. So, let it happen, she will have to get some help, and you and your kids should have some peace of mind, too. Unhappy may be right, this could save your M. She may finally have to recognize her faults in this, and obviously if she cried for you last year, she has some feelings left. Maybe she doesn't know how bad she is, or maybe she just can't control it. My H has told me many things I did or said over the years, and some of them really made me think how I was behaving needed to change, because they were hurtful things. He said I made him feel dumb, even though never said he was dumb, actually I always told him he is smart, but part of what he is going through is a MLC, and he doesn't always see things clearly. Now I am not saying that to defend anything bad I have done or said, just to show that not everything has been as bad as he believes right now. I went through some tough stuff, like I was five months pregnant, and found out the baby had died, then a few years later, my father died. I was verey depressed, and sometimes I felt so alone, and my H didn't seem to be there to comfort me, although he defends it by saying that he drove me to the funeral. Well, of course that isn't what I meant. But, I went through some length of time where I was so sad and neglected him and our M. He thought I hated him (I didn't, not ever), would come stand in the doorway, we were in separate rooms, and would ask why I was so mean. I would say that he made me that way. he said he would go and cry and if I had ever come after him, I would have seen this. I felt so horrible when he told me this, I wanted the ground to swallow me up. I did a lot of soul searching and praying, and I asked for his forgiveness, but he says he doesn't know if he can ever forgive me. So, I have forgiven him his EA, but he won't forgive me, and I am trying my best to change, we are in the same bed for the first time in many many years, and I am giving him the affection he wants and needs, I am telling him and showing him how much I care about him and appreciate him. I send him notes in his lunch everyday, I hug and kiss him when he gets home in the evening. I snuggle with him when we watch tv. I defer to him on stuff now, ask his opinion on things, instead of just doing them. He may still be seeing the ow, but it isn't because I am not going what I am supposed to do as a wife. I think he has also changed the secret cell phone number, so I will think he has had it disconnected. So, I don't know if he is enjoying this new me, but still planning on leaving me for ow or not. I am hoping that he will start pulling away from her when he sees that we can have a great marriage, and that I will never be that mean, neglectful person ever again. So, you see Rocco, while I have never been physically abusive to him or our child,my H sees what I did in just as bad a light as you do your wife. I agree with him, but I also say that a wake up call may be the thing for her to see herself truly for the first time, like the discovery of an EA was a wake up call for me. Did they tell you when they would start to investigate? If you had to go to your mother's, could you? Would your job let you have time off to deal with this? Unhappy, I am glad that you started walking away from he verbal abuse. What did she do, what was the look on her face? Was she shocked that you actually got up and left the room? You are right to tell Rocco to trust his inner voice, I don't think he trusts anything right now. L
25yearsmlc, you are right, we do that about the other guy having bad intentions, and we have good intentions. My H has interpreted all the incidents over the years to my bad intentions, and his to good intentions, and when I try to explain my side, he says I am making excuses for bad behavior that I did on purpose. I try to say to him I was wrong for the things I have done, but that mostly what I did was get into some bad habits and neglected him and our M. I tell him I was not mean to him on purpose, but I now see that I was very mean. He says that if I say I know I was mean, then I did it on purpose. There were many times I apologized to him when I felt I was being unfair or mean, and we would go on. But he held in all those incidents and they have started coming back to him, and it shows he really holds a grudge. He was also mean to me alot, by acting as if what I had to say was unimportant, he would stand in the doorway, and look at his watch when I was telling him something. We agreed I would be a stay at home mother, but then every now and then over the years, he would say I was sponging off him, that he carried us all alone. We then agreed I would go back to work when our S was in middle school. I was planning on being a substitute teacher this year, because he is in eighth grade now, but I found all this out in July, and have been in my own hell for three months, unable to go forward with those plans right now. I will eventually, but it is hard just to concentrate in doing the things I am doing to show H I am changing my other behaviors, like keeping the house cleaner. So, it shows that even though we both have had some bad behaviors, I am taking the major responsibility for them, and because he was the one planning to leave, I am trying to hold us together, and praying that the ow is out of the picture or on the way out soon. You are also right that women would be advised to suck it up and deal with it, and stop blaming their H's. Cause I tell you when my H started blaming me for every single thing that he felt was wrong in our marriage, I was so hurt and still am, because he refuses to take any responsibility at all for his part in it. We have a marriage that can be saved it is just up to him whether he really wants to save it. He keeps saying he doesn't "feel it", yet, and wants to know how long it will take. I think with ow in the wings, he isn't wanting to feel it yet, but if I can overcome his resistance, and help him get over the resentment and enger and show him the bad me is gone, then if he really wants to be with me he will be. The ball is in his court. I will stand for my M at all costs. That is why I have told no one about it because I don't want my family or his tugging us this way and that. I just hope he realizes how his decision will affect not only he and I, but our S and our extended families. I agree about the splinter and the plank, and believe me it has been said more than once in our church lately. Even though he says I was so much worse than him, I accept it, because he isn't ready to see the plank in his eye. I have a rather large one in mine, though. mlc, I have read many of you posts and I am coming over today to get caught up on your sitch. L
Rocco, what did the police officer say when you called him back? Just try to calm down some, they will take care of it and you and the kids. It may be making you physically sick to think of what you have set in motion, but you know you did the right thing. Major decisions like this aren't entered into lightly, you have felt for some time you should do this, right? Where are you right now? At home or at work? Where is she now? Where are the kids? Just don't worry so much it will turn out okay.
you set nothing in motion, your wife did when she hit your son. But I thought it was interesting that you also said, I think in the same post, that she does NOT abuse the kids, just You.....Ummmm, you might want to re-read that.... I don't know what it means, but it really struck me as something to think about. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
The police said there is nothing he can do at this point.
DYFS just called me and I told him that I lied because my wife and I are in an unhappy marriage and I wanted to make it worse for her. He said he spoke to my kids (I told him I wished he had called me first before doing that) and asked them some questions and my daughter said she gets a pat on the behind but she is in no danger. He said my son didn't answer at all and was vague but it appeared to him that my kids are in no danger.
He has to investigate it though and told me someone has to visit our house. I told him I am trying to save my marriage and if you do that, it will sabatoge it. He said its confidential and we don't tell her who reported it. I said please its not necessary. We both love our kids and they love us and I am trying to save my marriage through therapy and this will ruin everything.
He will check with his supervisor and call me back.
I'm at work right now and feel like throwing up. I wish I were dead. Rocco
Again, my wife has hit my son like that, in reality 3 maybe 4 times so its not like she is beating him. She does it once then apologizes. I guess if DYFS goes through with it, my marriage is indeed over.
Sadly, my wife doesn't see this as abuse towards me and in fact feels justified.
Well, like they said they won't tell who reported it. Can you keep a secret? Or will it weigh you down so hard that you spill it? Let her think a neighbor told them. I am sorry that you are regretting the choice you made, but you need to see it through, now. If they don't see any danger, then it still has given her something to think about. Just don't tell her it was you that reported it. You are a very reactive person, and you need to stop take a breath and wait a few more minutes before you do or say anything. Good Luck L
Of course I will have to deny it but I don't have a good poker face and I will probably turn red in the face and my expression will give it away. I will say who the heck would do such a thing? You have been a great mother to them and I have been good father recently and I can't imgine who would do such a thing. But now I am pissed off and I am going to try to find out who reported it.
How about instead of bold faced lying, just say you believe all in all she is a very good mother who tries her best. If she ever goes too far, it still does not amount to "abuse" or things like that...Try being supportive to her and your son. Rather than working on avoiding something negative--focus on doing something positive...and again I ask, how is her hitting your son, abusing you??
Also, switch genders for a minute and imagine you are a woman and she is the husband, hitting one of the kids. Maybe not as hard as he can, but still doing it....I'm a woman, and I gotta say most of us would call it abuse and violence and that no mother should allow it to happen to her children. I wonder, and I mean that, I just wonder, if we are being very fair when we do that...
What would the rest of you say if Rocco was the wife/mother instead of the dad/H? j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
The last time she hit me was 3 years ago because I told her to take an exit on the NJ GSP and it was the wrong exit. I made a mistake.
If she calls me up at work about this, I am going to say:
1. Are you kidding me? 2. Who the hell would so such a thing, you have been a great mother to these children and I have been a good father recently. 3. I am going to call them and ask who reported it.
If she acuses me, I will say to her "I am trying to save my marriage through divorce busting, not sabatoge it and in fact I have my first phone consultation this Saturday at 10:00. (I did not plan on telling her about my consultation). I will then add, how stupid do you think I am (apparently, quite stupid). That really hurt for you to accuse me.
Your right. Hitting a child in the face, although you shouldn't do that, she has done it 3 or 4 times. I did tell the DYFS person that I lied to make it worse for my wife because I was angry.
I'm not saying to confess all....but has the lying helped you at all? Seems to me it just gets you in deeper.....and if she finds out you called AFTER you lie more about it, you will have ended the M by lying, not by reporting the hitting. You know, as long a there is work going on at controlling tempers and learning better parenting skills, the DFYS may well do nothing---they have bigger fish to fry. Stop freaking out. And imho, lying the way you are describing, will do more damage to your M than either shutting up, or if she finds out it was you, try explaining in a healthy Maritally supportive way, why you were the one. Let the DB coach help you with that...seriously. Stop the lies for now. I really am not moralizing--I'm warning you that it'll do more to undermine her trust in you than anything else you can do now... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I agree with mlc, you have not made things better by lying, you did it to get back at her. You have to be quiet now, and stop blurting things out to everybody you know. If you know how you will react just keep your mouth shut. For goodness sake take some advice for once, we know you are hurting and depressed, so you are reacting to everything in a major way without thinking anything through first. Hush, really, and stay out of her way, so you don't have to spill the beans to her as soon as she looks at you. And if you do come clean with her, tell her you were desperate for yall to get help. L
DYFS told me they do not inform who reported the incident so she can't find out that way.
I wish I didn't act so fast on my gut reaction and thought it out first of what the ramifications might be before I acted upon it. That is one, if not, my biggest fault. I know lying isn't helping me although my wife has lied to me several times.
Your 1st line is "I'm not saying to confess all." How can I confess it was me, but not confess all of it. What could I possibly tell her.
She doesn't trust me now at all because I hurt her so bad this past June and she is afraid that I will hurt her again. But when I said I wasn't the only one that was hurt, you have hurt me to, to the point I wanted to commit suicide. I wish she would take accountability for her actions and at least apologize to me for once but that will never happen.
She knows I am reading Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy, but she has no interest in reading them herself. And that hurts that I have to do everything. She told me this past June if I want to make the marriage work, I have to do this, that and the other. Apparently she doesn't have to make any changes. She still curses at me when she is upset and it has nothing to do with me.
If she finds out it was me, what can I possible say to explain to her in a healthy Marital supporting way that I reported it?
take some free legal adivce (yes I'm a lawyer, but still a nice person) and SHUT UP! When I said not to confess all, I just meant that Not lying isn't the same thing as blurting out the truth.
When I see a fat friend who gained yet more weight, I don't tell her she gained weight--although it would be true. I say nothing. IF I were to be asked in some serious sort of way whether I thought her gained weight was healthy, and somehow the truth would help----then yes, I'd tell the truth. Do you see the difference?
And I noticed that your anger at your W keeps you veering off topic. You go from writhing in your constant worrying about her finding out you called, to blaming her or wanting her to take accountabillity for your own actions/feelings...I am sorry If I missed something on another thread, but you must Separate the issues to deal with them each individually. And yes, for a while it usually is only one person working on the M, until IF and when the other wants it to really work. Most people want to be in love and loving, IF they feel safe to do so...
For now, can you just say some prayers and realize that your worrying does not only NOT help, it actually makes things WORSE....honest to God, you must chill out. Turn things over to God, let him carry this for you for awhile... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Honestly mlc, you said it just right, Rocco be quiet, please. I am having to do all the work on my M for now, too. Most of us are. It is later that our spouses hopefully want to join in. You are not doing yourself any good getting so worked up over this, no good at all. So, please know she will not want to do anything to help for a time, so you can't force her with your anger or depression. We all know that tears, recriminations and begging do nothing except make them think we are pitiful and weak, and they don't want us then. so, please pray and take mlc's advice. L
My wife called me back and the DYFS guy left. She was upset that someone reported us but he couldn't tell her who did it. She told me DYFS asked her how she punishs the kids and she correctly told him that normally, they loose privliages. He asked her did we ever hit the kids and she said only on the behind. He asked her with a palm or a fist, and she said the palm. He asked her if she ever slapped them on the face and she lied and said NO. I told her that the reason I am not going to the Halloween Parade this Saturday with her family is I have my 1st phone consultation with a Divorce Busting Coach to try and save our marriage.
She said ok, and then said that her life is so hectic she has not had a chance to talk to a counsler. Two of them that were recommended didn't work because one is not in our network and the 2nd one moved away. I told her our Hospital has many therapist and she didn't respond.
I asked her if she had a chance to read Divorce Busting or Divorce Remeday and she said she didn't have the time. That hurt because she is not willing to put any time into our marriage, but I didn't say anything.
I have to go home now because the DYFS person will ask me the same questions. I will be honest but I am going to have to lie and say W never slapped my son in the face. I don't know what the consequences will be against me because now I am admitting to filing a falsified report.
Does anyone know how much trouble I can get into for this?
I forgot to mention that my W told me she still isn't sure if she wants a divorce. She still cooks for me and I am confused by her behavior. Can any shed some light on this?
First thing is “man-up” you are the leader in that house hold. You need to act like it! Your wife is acting out at you because she has to lead and don’t know or can’t do it but she is forced to. When she talks down at you she is looking for your spine! Come back at her! If she says to you your an a-hole, don’t say it back to her & don’t threaten her w/ I could leave or I should leave, come back with, “when your ready to discuss this like adults I’m ready to talk until then I’m not talking about this to you!” Then walk away, cool off don’t go back to apologize to her you did nothing wrong. Wait for her to come back to you and if she doesn’t come back with an attitude of an adult, wait her out & repeat you first statement. She wants to be subservient to you, but you still must respect her, & remember your son is watching, he is learning everything on how to be a man from you! You are showing him how to be a pushover! Read “frank_D”(’s) post
he man-uped and got his family back! & his wife cheated on him! You are not responsible for her happiness and she is not responsible for yours. About your IL’s they need to stay out of it, and tell her about them and stay strong! Do not disrespect her. If her B-IL comes at you with some BS respectfully give it back jokingly, they come at you because they have issues in them selves and putting you down makes them feel better (your wife included!) When you say to them you don’t want to talk about it that adds fuel to the fire. Turn it around ask them the questions put them on their guard, & when they answer, question their rights, ideas, & opinions! Watch how your wife reacts! Your wife’s abuse of your son, when you come correct to her as the man, she will straighten up with him also. Right now she feels like him & you need her to survive! How would you feel if you felt that everyone needs you to survive? (This may not be reality, but that is how she feels!) Go do something fun you & the kids w/ out her! Come back home happy and joking about what you did & see how she reacts. Show her that you can be fun with the kids, after a couple of time of you guys having fun she will want to join you! Ask the kids if they want to include her? If they say yes, come up with the ground rule on her behavior; (mostly on how she should act with you) if she breaks the rules, let her know what the consequences should be!) Mostly if she gives you vinegar, give her back honey, respectfully!!! and she will change, not over night but she will, be patience!
WAW 32 ME 38 D11, S9 & D2 Together 10/96 Married 4/2000 Bomb 4/2006 PA1 9/2006 PA2 11/2006 I now know I want out, With my Kids!!!
This is well thought advice. Manning-up, as you say, is the only way forward. I think Rocco is having trouble coming to that point of decision and change, where he doesn't look back, but presses forward knowing he is right. Your constructive advice should be followed, and it is similar to the course I am trying to take in my situation.
Rocco,
I think you are close. You took a step, but now the fear is causing you to want to take it back, or somehow get out of it. Slapping in the face is abuse. I told my wife not to do it again, and I told my son I would protect him from it. It has been a few years, and they are too big now for her to do it anymore. And this does not address the emotional abuse issues, which are also there. Rocco, without change, you children will grow up with a warped view of what relationships are. Trust me, I have seen it in my life. Without change, you will go on being miserable, and your wife will, too, for she is miserable now. You can't sit still, that took you to the brink before. You have to move forward. You set some things in motion, let them play out. Rocco, you are going to hurt. You are going to feel that you are the only one working on it. Don't dwell on it or your emotions about the situation, you have work to do, and feeling sorry for yourself will not get it. Don't let your wifes behavior hurt you, she is confused and broken in her style of relating to you and needs to be helped. Don't break trust by lying to preserve the status quo, say nothing except that you want to work on change, and invite her to work with you. Follow through on your therapy and counseling. It will be starting to become clear that a crisis is afoot - let her come to the conclusion that she needs to work with you if she is going to, and do things to make that a positive experience, as Alex says. You can get there. Do not sink to her level, stay above. Be strong as the man that you are, and insist on respect. Your kids need to see it.
Her verycrazy,
Thanks for staying in there with us. You do not come across as an uncaring person, and I think the future is bright for you one way or another. I hope it works out for you and your husband, I think you are turning around, and he still needs to in ways. Keep plugging.
do you read our posts? Seriously, I'd like to see an answer to THAT question just so I know I'm not writing for myself...in a vacuum....it's fine if you don't want the advice, or feel you cannot follow it. I just want to know you actually read these posts... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
My wife does not want to be subservient to me. As my therapist has told me and has seen my wife in the past, she wants to be the boss and control me and be in charge of every situation.
I do agree that when she attackes me verbally, I need to walk away from her. If I were to tell her "Whey your ready to discuss this like adults I'm ready to talk until then, I'm not talking about this to you" That would set her off because she sees nothing wrong in her behavior.
I also agree that I am setting a poor example of how a man should be in front of my children.
DYFS saw my wife yesterday and told her its an open and shut case and not to worry about it so that was good news. I don't think things through enough but react like an a-hole. I should have never gone to the police.
It is a stressful environment I live in. My wife is a good mother and does so much work with my kids with all the issues they have, I wonder how she does it. My son has ADHD so its very difficult but she takes him to the doctors and supports them in their studies. If I attempt to help my son with school, she angerly responds with, "I know what you are trying to do and I don't need your help." Yet she will also complain that she does everything around the house because she gets no support and If I try to help, I don't do it correctly, or the way she thinks I should do it.
We talked to my son first about what happened when DYFS visited at school. She asked my Son, do we beat you? And he responded with Dad threaten me to hit me with a strap (that was true, but I told him back in July, I never intended to use it, I will never threaten him like that again and I am sorry). He also added, in talking to my W, you slapped me in the face. My wife said, No I don't. My son said yes you do and I added, I saw you slap him in the face. She said, that is because he slapped me first. I said, no, Nick did not slap you at all. She then apologized to Nick.
I am taking the kids on a Halloween train ride this Sunday in town and and its just me an the kids.
I told her I have my 1st phone consultation with Divorce Busting tomorrow. I said they believe all marriages are salvagable, unless of course there is abuse or drugs involved and things like that. I added that from what I read, most troubled couples continue to do things that don't work. Traditional therapist treat the problem but don't address the solutions. Couples play the blame game, he blames her, she blames him. She responded, I don't blame anybody. I did not answer but that was not a true statement.
I said I believe that our marriage can be saved and my goal is to work on saving our marriage. She said she hadn't decided what to do. She said you really hurt me in June, and that was the 3rd time. I didn't answer her because I already apologized for that.
I asked her if she had talked to a therapist. Her sister, who is a social worker recommended 2, but one was not in our plan, and one moved away. I told her there are plenty in Flemington. I asked her if she read the Divorce Busting books, but she said, I don't have any time. I asked her if she would be interested in talking to a Divorce Busting coach and she said No.
What frustrates me is she has never apologized to me for her behavior. If you read my previous posts, my IL's can treat me however they like. True, I should have ignored them, and I did tell my wife that they are upsetting me, but she sees nothing wrong with what they do to me.
Later, we talked to our daughter about our relationship and what her feelings are. She said it upsets her and she wants the family to stay together. My W asked her if she would be OK if Mom and Dad lived in different homes but Dad would live close by. My D said No because it would make her sad. My D doesn't want us to Divorce. I told my D that I didn't want that either and I was working very hard to save our marriage. My W made no response to that and my D just nodded.
I hope I did the right thing with my discussions with my kids last night. Please comment!
Yes I read all the posts and I don't find them a waste at all. I find them helpful. I probably should have run my venting the other day and asked your opinions about reporting it to the police. I'm sure you would have advised me not to.
When my W slapped my son, it was once in the face, not continous. It was wrong, it happened, but I don't think she will do that again. I get cussed at and yelled at but for whatever reason, she sees nothing wrong with that. Maybe she does it because she is worn out, exhausted, worried or a host of other reasons, but by treating me that way, how does that help the situation.
Hey Rocco, it sounds like things went pretty well considering. You got the opportunity to point out to your wife that you are serious about changes, which is a good thing.
You said she never apoligizes for the behavior. That is a typical reaction for a controlling person. Remember, its very hard for her to admit fault. This is not excusing it, its just they way it is. Its part of the process you and her need to go through. But just because she doesn't apologize it doesn't mean she hasn't done anything wrong. And just because she blames you does not mean it is your fault.
Your wife is thinking about divorce, obviously, but what is not clear is how seriously. You did right in telling your daughter that you are working on saving it - they need to see that working happening for their sake. Whether it ends or not they will have seen you step up. You also stepped up in saying to your wife, in front of your son, that yes, she had slapped him. The two of you, together, put her in a corner where she had to admit what she had done. She will think twice next time. Sometimes, I have found, it takes more than one person to shine some light through a situation. Let me give you an example - up until about 5 months ago, before I got wise and started standing up for myself, my wife never let me carry any money. If I wanted to go out for lunch, for instance, I had to ask her for cash, and she would respond with a lecture and sometimes refuse to give it to me. I know it was backward, but that was where I was. Anyway, my 18 year old son finally asked me about why our relationship seemed so poor, and I discussed this and other things with him, just to let him know that things were not all my fault as my wife painted them. Anyway, he went and told my wife that he thought that she better make some steps about this issue, and she started to act differently about it. It took two of us, in love, to make her see that the way she was acting was not all right. I am not saying enlist your kids against your wife, but sometimes the opportunity for multiple members of the family to lovingly confront just comes up, so don't shy away when it does.
If your wife mentions she doesn't have time to work on the marriage, have you tried suggesting solutions, like saying "Is there something I can do to save you some time?" This may lead to more criticism, but at least it is a constructive suggestion. And you can try to 'teach' what you are learning in your conversations with her.
Like I said, work on saving your marriage by standing up first for yourself as a person. You will not save it by trying endlessly to please someone who wants all the control. Take each positive step and build on that.
I didn't realize that controlling people will not admit their guilt. When I was hospitalized for suicide, when she called me and told me on the phone in July that she loved me, I was very angry at the time and told her "Yeah right, what you love is to control me and if you control me, I'm outta here." There are a lot of other things that happened that I blew my stack, but again, I already apologized for it.
We both bring up the past which is not good. I'm just as guilty as she is. Right now, I am physically and mentally suffering. I may have another bowel obstruction, (the 1st one almost killed me in 1999 as 32 inches of small bowel was gangrene. The 2nd one happened this past June so I was back in the hospital but didn't require surgery, just didn't eat for 4 days other then fluid. Now I am beginning to experience the same thing. Also have trouble sleeping and am just drinking water since Wed afternoon. I tried to eat, but it almost made me vomit. Consequently, I have not had much sleep either and I am on anti-depressent meds and sleeping pills and stil have trouble sleeping. I believe most of that is due to my stupid decision on telling the police. I am consumed with guilt and grief about that but have said nothing to her.
Beats the hell out of my why she makes me dinner though. I will try and suggest if I can save her sometime but she will say No. I don't know why she just doesn't file and get it over with? I sometimes wonder if it would be better if we just separate and I move back with my parents for awhile to see if that helps the situation. I just don't know what else to do. I can't wait to talk to my DB coach tomorrow.
Hey Rocco. Don't be consumed with guilt. By your own admission you acted in accordance with many people's advice in contacting the police (lawyer, priests, therapists). And the situation is working itself out. Look, your wife is aware or she is becoming aware that its showtime in your marriage - time for change or time for moving on. Your actions are a part of the process you both are going through. You did not betray her, you are acting in the best interests of everyone. Believe in your course and stick to it, don't second guess it by feeling guilty.
Rocco, you are saying that you don't know why she doesn't file. Is the destiny of your marriage her decision? Do you want her to be in control until the end, whenever that is? Ask yourself - do you want to ride along and wait for her to do what she is going to do, or do you want to take the helm for your own life? You are wondering about separation - make a list of pros and cons, talk it over with the DB coach and your therapists. Make a list of goals and an action plan and act on your plan. Don't just wonder and wait for someone else's decision, follow a process to make your own decision. You are here, speaking out, and starting the process. You know it needs to change, and that the past will not get it anymore. Plan the future, establish some dreams and pursue them. This will pass.
Unhappy, my H always gives me his paycheck and then asks me to hold out some money for him, when I go to the bank. I do this with no questions asked, even though he does talk about me controlling the money. But that's because I pay all the bills and keep up with the finances. He works extra jobs sometimes and keeps all that money without having to tell me where he spends it. Although I found out he sent ow flowers on her birthday, and bought her flowers and gifts on Valentine's Day. He knows I know and I told him that I had been using the florist that he used to send ow flowers, for more than twenty years, and it is embarassing that we are in their computer with us sending flowers and fruit to family and friends, and him in the computer as my H sending another w flowers. Maybe your W is afraid if she loosens the purse strings, you will do stuff like that, too. maybe not, but be sure to always be honest with her about everything you are doing and never be evasive. Thanks for saying it looks like I am turning things around, I need encouragement. I had my first C session today. I really like the counselor, and think he can help me. Sometimes I realize that God has His hand in our lives whether we know it or not. More than twenty years ago, I looked in the yellow pages for a preacher to talk to, because I was spiritually confused. I picked out one church and called the preacher. We talked for a long time and then set up Bible study, After a few months, he introduced us to a preacher whose church was much closer to us, and we started Bible study with him. After about six months or so, he one night asked me what was stopping me from being baptized. I said nothing and off we all went to the church. I have never regretted the decision. Now here I am just a week and a half ago, looking through the yellow pages for a MC. I looked at one name only and called it and talked to the C. Well, today I found out he is a member of the same church, only in a different city, and guest lectures at churches, but had never lectured at our church. I really believe God led me to him, why else would the only name I looked at in all the phone book turn out to be of the same spiritual mind as me? So, anyway God works in mysterious ways. Our preacher who has since moved to another church, and his W love the story of how I came to be saved through the yellow pages. Just a small story for yall to see the power of God in our lives. Unhappy, I want to know how your w is reacting to the new things you are doing. I bet she is sitting up and taking notice. I agree with the advice you gave Rocco, about enlisting the aid of the children to help, I have done that with our S to try to pull H back into the family, and make him not feel alienated from us, such as getting his opinion on stuff and getting him interested in things S is interested in. Hey, what ever helps. L
Well, I guess it is her decision since I am the one trying to Save the Marriage. Of course I don't want the marriage to be as it was before because that won't work for either one of us.
It is sad, especially for my children but I am glad that I got to tell them that Daddy is working very hard to save the marriage. My son didn't really say much because he doesn't want to talk about it. But my D now knows that I am working hard, and if we do split, she is going to wonder why her Mom didn't? Of course I suspect my W to lie and also same some true things about my behavior but will never admit her own behavior. I certainly don't want my children to blame just me and maybe not want to see me anymore. That would really destroy my well being.
I will take your advice and right things down of what questions to as the DB Coach. I will probably start the discussion by bitching a bit and how it got to this point but I better make it short, not as long as I have been posting on the site.
Right now, I am just so very tired, mentally, physically and emotionally. Thanks for your help. I really do appreciate it.
mlc- I was serious wondering if Rocco was reading our posts, too, but he says he is. I just think he has such an overwhelming sense of guilt built into him, that he feels guilty for stuff he should feel good about. He can't seem to get beyond that or his anger at his W. It's understandable, but the anger has to be put aside for now if he is going to make any progress. My H and I are talking to each other more now about things that concern him, so I hope his anger at me is subsiding somewhat. I forgave him right away for his EA, so my anger is not as great as it was at first. I am working on it. I feel that the way I treated him over the years gives him reason to be angry with me. L
Rocco, just please do what the DB coach says to do, okay. Like the advice you were given write down a list of questions and maybe some goals for yourself. My S13 doesn't want to talk about this stuff either, so I try to wait till he says something, or asks me a question, because I don't want him stressed out. Sometimes he sees how sad I am, and I just tell him I am feeling sad, but I'm okay. So, maybe just wait till they want to ask you questions about it. Do you do stuff with them. I saw you had something planned with them this weekend, that's great. Show them how much fun Daddy can be and don't show any sad faces. This will help them feel more secure. Maybe do some stuff with your S, becaus I have found that boys have such a righteous sense of right and wrong that they seem to need extra attention, and at age 11, he may not understand all, but he probably sees more than you think. Find a project to do with him, if you can, that will put the two of you together. Just tell your W that you two have something planned and go to Home Depot or somewhere and find something you two can work on together. Then do something with your D, too, just the two of you, like take her to get her nails done. You might be surprised how getting outside your own problems and being with them may give you a more positive mental attitude. Good Luck, and let us know how the C session goes. L
That is great new that your H is talking to you and making progress. You are right that the anger has to be put aside. I don't show it at home but I have bottled it up inside. She still yells at me or when she is upset, the foul language starts.
When I put my son on the bus this morning my neighbor was there to put her daughter on the bus and I brought up the topic and of course I didn't say who reported my family to the authorties. But she knows we are having marital problems big time because her and my W talk. I told her I forgave karin's family and have apologized to karin but it does take 2 to make a marriage work and 2 to make it fail. I said I had to forgive, otherwise you remain stuck and get move ahead. I need to forgive more so its truly out of my system. Its hard when you are still be verbally attacked though because she is so angry and told me last night this was the 3rd time. If it was the first time, I would be able to let that slide. I said nothing and I didn't lecture her that if you don't forgive, nor will God forgive you. The bible says something along the lines that you need to do this 7 * 70. I forget the actual quote.
Rocco, I don't remember exactly either, but it's something like this. A man asked how many times he had to forgive someone, seven times? And Jesus said seventy times seven, which means however many times it takes, endless times. Perhaps you should take the advice mother moving on gave me, not to push your religion on your W, it will make her run the other way. so, don't give her religious lectures, unless she asks you to. Stop thinking so much about the past, and think about what you are going to do in the future. The past is just that-past. So, you know all about your failures and you sure as heck can number hers, but where is that getting you? you said you have to forgive to move on, otherwise you are stuck, but it seems you are stuck, anyway, because you almost seem rooted to the same spot. I went back and read your other posts and you say a lot of the same things there that you do here, but you don't seem to know what to do next. I hope you really will listen to the DB coach, because they will give you the best advice for your situation. From what I read in other peoples' posts here, marriages can really be turned around and that gives me hope for mine, let it give you hope for yours. L
Hi verycrazy. As I said I have turned things around somewhat withj the money. She does not question where I spend it, but she does tend to be very insecure about the subject in general, which tends to color the way she deals with other issues. For instance, her campaign of opposition to my switch in employers was rooted in insecurity about money. Also, she fears that our sons will grow up to be deadbeats and sponge off mom and dad. I really don't know where that insecurity comes from - it is not from any spending habits on my part or history of wasting money. We are debt free except a $20,000 mortgage on a $275,000 house and I make $125,000 a year - its not like we are hurting.
My friend and I do not engage in romantic things like exchanging flowers - it is strictly off limits. I let my wife know we are friends, and is has not been a big issue. My wife does know what I am doing in terms of seeking change in the marriage, but she dismisses it. She said it is a bunch of nonsense, don't spout that crap, etc. Basic invalidation of my right to think what I think, take any input I want to take, etc. It doesn't hurt me anymore when she talks like that. I plug on, and try to do what is loving and take positive steps, like employing constructive communication techniques, saying 'thanks for giving your opinion", switching to more positive subjects, etc. I have to control the tone to prevent it from going downhill. It takes two to tango and I won't, not anymore. In this I have learned a lot, from places like this, from my pastor, from books, from friends.
My wife's reactions are actually somewhat positive, on balance. It seems I always have to listen to some verbal assaults, but we have been able to move beyond that in some ways. There has still been no real turnaround in her pride or her willingness to work together or admit fault, so we still have far to go. But, for my part, I am no longer riding a rollercoaster of emotions all the time, and it feels so much better. I can work logically and dispassionately toward solutions. I still don't think my wife has realized the magnitude of the change that is underway, and it is still to be determined whether the relationship will be what she wants when it is on a more healthy footing. Many tell me 'controllers never change', but I am optomistic in what I am doing. Either way, I will have done everything I can do, whether the marriage survives or not. My sons are noticing the differences, which is good.
I suggest avoidance of biblical quotes at this point. They'll look self-serving and besides, using that parental voice just forces the WAS to defend their choices instead of looking at them and that parental voice of the LBSer, can shut down the WAS's inner voice....also found it notable that when you saw your neighbor you "of course" brought up your wife's behavior/Family svcs involvement and marrriage and said it takes two to fail, etc and you see nothing inapproprate or disloyal or Blaming on your side of things.
To be sure, unless you are a crazy liar and I doubt that, your wife IS too controlling...I get that. But I also get the feeling you are leaving a whole LOT out about your own stuff and even what you do say, reveals an amazing lack of awareness about how Your own behavior appears. Same with the repeated behavior that goes against ALL the posts you get, I have to ask, are you getting help for YOU and whatever baggage you have that is Separate from your wife? Your suicide attempt is a lot to hold Her responsible for don't you think? If she is that toxic and there is Nothing YOU can do, then get out for everyone's sake. But like I said, I feel like some pieces of the puzzle are missing and that you have them inside, somewhere. trust that God knows your dark side and loves you anyway....So it's safe to look within and find your own demons-we ALL have them and ONLY WE can deal with them, with God's help...this is simply not all about her. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hey Rocco, I wrote a letter to God, at the suggestion of my pastor and my friend. It took me 5 days to write it. In it, I put everything I could remember that hurt from my first 22 years of marriage. Everything I could remember, and how I felt when it happened, and how badly I felt mistreated when it happened. I poured out everything and I asked God to take it for me. I said 'God, You forgave man for every sin he has committed. You forgave them for the sins of the holocaust, for every cruelty man has ever done to one another. When You bore that cross on your back, and died, this was the weight You carried. If You can forgive all mens sins, You can forgive my wife, too. And You can give me the strength to forgive. Please bear this burden for me, I cannot hold it in anymore'. This exercise helped me tremendously. It is there if I want to add to it, but this exercise was primarily to put the past in God's hands, where it belongs, and to put it in a place of safety. When I relate things from my marriage on this board, it is not out of bitterness but out of my desire to show I have been there. I have no bitterness left for these things. And this exercise, though it is in the past, helps me now as these things keep occuring. I have a much better ability to forgive and move on than I had before.
So, verycrazy, if Rocco is numbering his wife's failures, maybe he needs to do so, one last time, to give them away, one by one. This will help him to be free to move on and do as you and I are saying - to take positive steps forward in his situation.
I could not have said it better, mlc. I, too wonder if Rocco is being completely honest with himself about his own part in this. Perhaps he is passive aggressive. Whatever it is, there is something missing in this puzzle. Rocco, it is rather disloyal to discuss your W with someone who sees her every day. Set some boundaries, not everyone needs to hear about everything or to know all your business. Be prepared to really LISTEN to the DB coach, and work on Rocco, not on your W. L
It is true. When I put down the things I needed to forgive, I recalled things I myself needed to be forgiven for. Rocco needs to separate out his own areas of improvement from the self image he takes away from his broken relationship with his wife. It is a difficult thing, because he needs to accept that he is OK and loved - his standing with God is secure, even though he needs improvement. But he is not worthless or less than a person, which is how these relationships make you feel.
Its hard work to work in so many areas at once, but it must be done. Nothing worthwhile comes that easily.
I too made the mistake of assuming a parental tone with my wife. In trying to draw boundaries around myself to protect myself from control, I took a tone that was too parental and condescending at times. Of course, it led to more tense words and fights rather than progress. I am learning to draw the boundaries in a more constructive way, by erecting them around myself without needing to point them out and by behaving in a way that swtches the focus away from areas of boundary violation. Then I simply do what I know is right in the situation and refuse to engage in the fighting about it. It's very powerful.
maybe you are right, Rocco does need to number his W's faults one last time, and then move forward. I also agree that he is absolutely not a worthless person, though I think he feels that way, sometimes. I just feel that he is very hesitant to move forward, because he is so unsure of the future, but we all are. We just have to let go of the side of the pool and swim. Keep our heads up and don't go under. Rocco, I hope you see that we all care about you and know if you just take that step, you can make it and you will be surprised at your progress. Remember baby steps, not big giant steps. L
Sorry, I was really busy at work and we finally got our kids to bed. You're right, I did hold my w responsible for my suicide attempt and having to be admitted to the Psy. Hospital for 5 days. In fact I told her and blamed her when she called me at the hospital. I was very angry and hurt but it took a big step for me to get there. Now that I think about it, I haven't apolgized to her about that. I think I should and its something I will ask my DB coach tomorrow. What do you think?
And yes, I do have a lot of baggage since I was abused by my paternal grandmother since as long as I can remember until she died in 1991. I was beaten by her and so was my mom who tried to defend me and even at the age of 7, I felt responsible for my mom getting hit. However, I was able to forgive her about 10 years after she was dead back in the year 2000 when I was told by a woman named Mary at our church to start saying the rosary. A week later, I had a dream and I was with my grandmother and my mom and my belly was revealed from all the surgeries I have had to go through and to make a long story short, I told my grandma that child abuse caused it. She started to sob uncontrolably and then I woke up. I thought about it a minute or two and then I no longer hated her because I knew she was sorry. And I hated my grandmother for at least 38 years up to that point.
My wife accused me of punishing her for what she did and that is true because all I wanted from her was an apology which she will not do, therefore, I didn't believe she was sorry. I would be mean, short, withhold sex, etc. So yes, I know I am responsible for my current situaton. My W and her family feel I am 100% responsible which I don't agree with but I can't change that opinion.
My wife has always preached and lectured me many times on how she feels I take for granted for all that she does, under-appreciated, un-loved, no support, etc. She does more then any mother I know, especially with all the issues my son has with ADHD and his other Autistic like characteristics, bringing him to doctors, etc. She pays all the bills, and right now the money is tight, does most of the work aroud the house, the list goes on and on. She has lectured me on how she stood by me when I had numerous surgeries, a rotten boss I had at my previous employment from 2001-2004, helping me through college with editing all my papers, etc. That part is all true.
But who likes to be lectured, she criticize me on any thing I do (see previous post about my Valenties Day gift to her). Heck, she even told me I don't cut the grass the way she does because I take longer then she does. So consequently, the more she put down my efforts, the less I did. And it was a vicious cycle. If I make a mistake, like telling her to take an exit on the highway (she was driving and we were going to the shore) which ended being the wrong exit, she yells, curses and hits me in front of the kids (ages 8 and 6 at the time). The kids then start to hit me from the back seat and I told them they should not do that because I am their father. W responds with, "that's right, only mommys can do that." In that episode, she then tells me I didn't even apologize for what I did. So I turned to my kids and said sorry I got us behind schedule and told my W to go F herself. Did she ever apologize for that? NO! When we got home, I told her "what the hell is your problem? We got to the shore about 30 minutes later and you know what I found out? The Atlanitc Ocean was still there. She says nothing. And that is not the first time either. It happened again the following summer when we were on vacation and were going to vist Mount Vernon and I told her in about 20 minutes, you will come to a bridge, and when you do, be sure you are in the right line. As we are approaching the bridge, she can't get into the right line due to traffic (she was in the far left lane), we missed the exit, and she repeats the same behavior. A couple of days later, I firmly (not yelling) told her to never, ever touch me again in anger, its sets a poor example on the kids, and its strips me of being a man. She just looked at me and said nothing. I would have expected an apology, but no. So I punish her in the ways I have explained. She did tell me later in the evening that she told the kids that she should not have hit me though. That is the last time she hit me. I know she is under a lot of stress, but that doesn't excuse her behavior. When she called me in the hospital after my suicide attempt, and I once again brought that hitting episode up, she tells me its my fault because I stress her out. Therefore, I am not only responsible for my behavior, but hers too? That's not OK with me.
I did tell her in the past that her temper scares me and that I am afraid of her, and if it scares me, especially with my history from my grandmother, its got to scare the children even more. The first time she hit me is when my son was about a year old and she was trying to feed him juice from a sips cup. He was crying, she was crying, I came up stairs (we have a center hall colonial), I don't remember what I said, but I should have said, do you want me to take over? I probably said, and I don't remember, what's wrong? She got so angry about the situation, that she through the sips cup (I don't believe it was intentional) and hit me square in the face. Its a good thing it didn't knock me down the stairs. Again, no apology.
I loved that advice about writing a letter to God. That one I will do. I wish someone told me that before. I also will write another letter to God down all the things I did wrong to my W. I don't think I should show my wife that letter though, do you?
One of my biggest problems is I am passive/aggressive with low self-esteem and overly sensitive. My mom always told me for years that my over sensitivity will only make trouble for you. Boy was she right. I was told in the hospital that all people who suffer from depression are overly sensitive but I could work on that so I am not.
Again, that comes from how I was raised. My parents do not have high self-esteem either. When I was a boy, I guess I was being fresh (I was always told that) and I can't remember who said other then an adult relative, but I was told I would never amount to anything. And that was told in front of my parents who said nothing so I believed it of course. I grew up feeling that I was never good enough because I heard that crap for so many years. Thankfully, I never abused my kids that way. So you see, I do have a lot of baggage and I need to work on me. Then in dealing with my W and her family, they made me feel the same way and I found myself being the child of these bad memories all over again. Had I had a better opinion of myself, I wouldn't let what my IL say to me even bother me.
I feel compelled to give you some tough love, so please hold on.... Here's the deal.
I'm from Washington DC, and am one of 9 kids born in 12 years, with an immigrant mom who spoke little English. My dad was a very well educated, brilliant, highly functioning raging alcoholic. Dad also had a very public political job, so no matter what happened at home, NOTHING was ever revealed in public or the DISCLOSURE would bring "shame to the family..."
Routine beatings on weekends for my brothers, and I mean bad ones that required hospitalizations, were par for the course. I am one of 4 daughters and I won't get into what I went through being a pretty blonde my father inappropriately worshipped....guess what? I wanted to be happy and deep down I knew God wanted that for me. So I got help. Long ago. Not all of my siblings are equally healed, and we must all watch out for our "buttons" getting pushed....I try to do that by getting rid of the buttons. Who wants them? Who needs them? I don't believe ANY of us actually blame our dad (or mom) for our lives TODAY....how can we?
I'm an adult now and ONLY I am responsible for what happens in MY life- no one else is-- and I am COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS....I am also Not an alcoholic, nor do I have a temper issue, I and ALL of my siblings have put ourselves through college and beyond, without a cent from family or the government. So my friend, the CYCLE WAS BROKEN and there are No more excuses. At some point, forgiveness or not, we can no longer hold our parents or our pasts as excuses/obstacles for not taking charge of our lives today. I heard a client say by age 25 we ought to shut up and do what it takes to move forward, and I tend to agree...
***** Tomorrow is promised to no one. **** How much more of your life do you want to feel like a victim? You are only a victim of YOUR choices today, you are choosing to be M to a woman you often describe in hellish terms....and you have been M to her for 22 years!! I can't tell if you are a negative person who always sees the glass as half empty, and STILL won't see it as half full Ever, and OR who won't ever see any choices anywhere...
And you DO blame her for your suicide attempt....OMG Rocco, that's very unfair, extremely unkind, and totally inaccurate. Even IF it had been true, somehow, then WHY STAY M?? Really, WHAT do you gain by it?
.... Please take charge of your life. THIS IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL...If your life were a novel, who would be writing it? Is the story/novel of Your life going the way you wanted it to? WHO SHOULD BE WRITING THE STORY OF YOUR LIFE????? How about you?
Please stop thinking your past IS your present and dictates tomorrow. Look around the world (if not your own neighborhood). Rwondan women who survived the amputating hackings from the Hutu tribes, but whose families did Not survive, are giving lectures in this country on forgiveness and moving on.... Holocaust survivors from Europe immigrated to new countries, learned new languages, went to college and or started businesses and had families....
As Maryanne Williamson said..... WE'VE ALL BEEN RAPED.....
Meaning, We all have our stories and some are far worse than others. Some are almost ridiculous in hindsight. For instance, at an acting workshop I attended, I heard a 52 y/o man literally scream at his (now dead) father for not co-signing a college loan 30 years earlier (!!) and he blamed his father for him never going to college....Good grief!!!?? Why didn't he just do it himself,when he had over 30 years to get it done? Christ, I did it, and so did each of my brothers and sisters....it IS achievable for God's sake. Guess it's easier for some people to blame others, rather than having to face all the lost time they've wasted blaming someone else for how their life turned out.
Of course I've seen people born with strikes against them from the day they were on earth. And as an attorney, I've seen my share of serious crimes, and the ugliest side of humanity. I did have to switch law practices and careers b/c I no longer wanted to feel sad so often. It was a boundary issue for me that I identified. I knew I deserved to be happier, and I would and will do WHATEVER it takes to be as happy as God intended me to be.
BUT *** I say the days of using past abuse or pain as an exuse for present day bad behavior, are over for criminal defendants, and ought to be over for us as well... what do you think Rocco? Do you want to be in charge of your life, and are you willing to do whatever it takes to be in charge of it? You must decide that before much good can really happen, imho.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, it's my version of Tough Love...hope it helps and if not, then ignore it. At least it was free.
Also, as a final note, my DB sessions have all been great and very helpful. But the focus was EXCLUSIVELY on ME, MY BEHAVIORS and what I can change in MY LIFE..... it has worked a lot for me and since I'm half of my M, it has also worked well there too. Good luck, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Gosh, you went through hell. No, you were not harsh at all and I needed to hear that. I am a very negative person who does see the glass as half-empty. It is very difficult and I probably should have gotten help long ago too. It will be an on-going battle for me and I MUST STOP taking things so personaly when people push my buttons too.
I am very insecure and my wife is too, but I didn't realize it. She is a strong woman and is very talented with doing things around our home. She can do just about anything to fix up problems in our house and she was brought up that way. I wasn't and really don't have an interest. However, if I learned, I would be able to help more, but my fear of my W if I make a mistake is also an issue for me.
There is no boundries in my current situation between us. I don't think we told each other how much we love each other for years. You are making me think more and more about my bad choices that I have made and done to my W. I need to toughen up and let things slide and not take her yelling at me so personal. Probably, in the beginning, when she would act that way, I believed it was directed at me after I came home from work. I didn't ask, how was you day with the kids, or things like that.
My W told me that she held a lot of things in for my sake as far as our finances, the kids, everything because she felt I was under enough stress at work, especially working appox. 60 hrs a week for an a-hole and putting myself through college. It took me 10 years to graduate and I couldn't have done it without my W.
Well, I have to get ready to talk to my DB coach but I will be back. Please do not stop writing to me and I need to hear what you say no matter how harsh it sounds. Its what I need to grow up.
Well, Unhappy. how goes it with you today? Are you still walking away from your W when she starts in on you? You really seem to me to be making progress, if you are taking more control of your life and M. That's very inspiring to me. I have hope that my H will do that more, and get stronger and begin to feel more loving to me, too. the things you do, I try to get my H to do, too, although indirectly, because I want him to want to take more control. He thinks and said he has always been weak, even as a kid. I never thought of him as weak, I thought he was a kind, responsible, reliable, sweet, hard working, funny, sensitive man. I just neglected to let him know all this over the years. If this is what is called weak, then I'll take him weak, but it's not. I know he likes me telling him these things now, but he said this morning that I was being sappy. Oh, well, maybe he needs me to be a little sappy now to make up for the years I wasn't sappy. Unhappy, you really have helped me to see inside a man who has been controlled by his W, and it has helped me to see what things to give up, and let him take over. And because you are so open with your situation, it has helped me to see somewhat the feelings my H must have been feeling. Thank you, I appreciate it. L
mlc, I agree with you that we all have to take responsibility for our own lives and actions. I, too grew up in a large family, I am one of seven, my father was an alcoholic, my parents divorced when I was little and my mother married a man who adopted us, and then abused us in that way and physically, and emotionally, too. I remember going to school with huge belt imprints on my legs and butt. We never told anyone, because nothing would be done anyway. I was put in a children's home while my parents fought a two year custody battle, then I was sent away for good at fourteen, and became a part of the system. I consider myself fairly healed and I take full responsibility for all my actions, even though these childhood things shaped who I am. I forgave my stepfather for what he did, and my mother for allowing it. Not all my siblings have. I am a very optimistic person, ans always like to see the bright side of anything, although I do feel alot of despair over my situation with my M. I feel alot of the time that our M is going to be saved, but other times I have to fight the hopeless feelings, and the crying jags, and the utter sadness that makes me have to go sleep for some relief. I, also didn't turn out to be an alcoholic, even though it runs in the family, I didn't turn out to hurt my child, and most people think I am fairly nice. So, I hope my natural optimism will help me here. I think it will. L
Rocco, listen to mlc. You can't blame your W for your suicide attempt. That is a cruel thing to put on her. I realize your feelings about her and all the problems you have are a part of it, but don't blame her for that. When my sisters H killed himself, his parents blamed his eleven year old D, because she didn't try to stop him. He pushed her out the door and locked her out, but still they blamed her. It's not fair to blame someone else for that. It also sounds to me like she has been overwhelmed for years and probably burned out from having to run things for so long. You yourself said that you had no interest in helping around the house, so she did it all, and did it her way for a long time, so it may be natural for her to have been a little resentful of you coming along to take over again. This sometimes happens whe men come back from years in Iraq, they want to jump back in and do things their way as soon as they get back home, and their W's have been doing things themselves for all that time. I am sorry you are so afraid of your W, but you have to get over it, will she kill you? No,I don't think so. Ask her how she wants things done, if you don't know how to do them.. Don't tell her directions, if you don't know them either, if she doesn't have a sense of humor when you get lost. You really have to put this stuff behind you, and move forward. All these things you repeat about what your W has done are like weights around your neck, and who can move with all that hanging around their neck? I could tell you are passive aggressive, you punish her in subtle ways that make you feel that There I got her! But it hurts you, too when you do that. I will be waiting to see what your DB coach has for you to do. I hop you will follow the advice you get. L
Hey I took a nice 45 minute unplanned walk last night,when the communication got bad. Afterwards we had a nice time together for a while - it was a step, but I still am struggling for that real breakthrough. My wife sees what I am trying as selfish - getting my own way, etc, though I am really trying to show her her that she needs to first accept me as a seperate person, then trust me to do what is right and be a servant to the family. Her mode is to try to force me to be all that, and in the process run roughshod and treat me like a non-person. Boy its a long road. I really wish we could break through to annther plane of relationship and communication. We seemtogo in circles, but I refuse to act angry or be hurt anymore. Thanks for your help - I wish my wife was as dedicated as you were to improving things. It doesn't seem sappy to my for you to say that stuff. Affirmationis great - it is one of the things that my friend really did that opened my eyes to what I had been missing.
I admire you for breaking your cycle they way you have, and for sharing your story here. As you say, controlling the other person and forcing them to change is not possible. You only move through these situations by taking charge of yourself, which includes the emotions and feelings and reactions. Letting go of the past is one thing, and we have all urged Rocco to do that in different ways. Letting go of the present, as it happens, and learning to be in control of your life, your reactions, your own self-help - that is the key I have found. I am on my way to healing, whether within or out of my marriage it is too early to tell, but in any case it will be no more blaming others or being a victim for me. My life is too short to go on in that way - I don't intend to look back 20 years from now and be regretful about those years the way I am over the past 20. Its showtime.
I had a great session with my DB coach Laurie and since so much is going on in my life, I need to take some baby steps. I have written it down and I need to not take her negative interactions so personal. If she swears at me, rather then walk away, I decided to do something different and that is I will tell her "I am sorry you are so upset, is there anything I can do?" That is something different that I normally would not do. You will learn something even if she still is resentful, but don't worry about it. Do things that work or feel is working and stop doing things that don't work.
In an unrelated issue, my 16 year old nephew, who has been in a wheel chair since the age of 3 due to a tumor in the stem of his brain which was removed at age 3 along with the 1st three vertebreas of his spine, is back in the hospital for the umpteenth time with his 4th bout with pnemonio. My mom just called me and doctors do not expect him to live through the day. So I will have to sign off for now but will return, maybe today, tomorrow or Monday. I really do appreciate your messages to me.
Hey Rocco, sounds like good advice. Try to listen through the negative talk to see what she is really saying. Underneath,there will be some issues that you can make constructive steps to resolve. Your coach is the expert, rely on her advice.
I am sorry to hear about your nephew. Our prayers will be for your nephew and your family.
Rocco, sorry to hear about your nephew. I am glad to hear about your session with Laurie going so well. I hope things start to look up for you now you have some direction. Unhappy, I'm glad to hear that you are continuing to make progress. Just because your W says it is selfish, doesn't mean it is. It is you taking care of you for a change. It will be a long hard road to recovery of your M, but anything worth having is worth working that hard for. Taking long walks is a great idea, you can clear your mind and get fit at the same time. Sounds like something I could start doing. So, everyone this is a good weekend for us all, so far. My H is acting a little sweeter, so, unless I am being completely fooled by him, things are looking up some. L
Rocco--prayers to your nephew. VC, I'll keep my fingers crossed and Unhap, keep up your stuff, as VC said.
BTW, yes parts of my childhood sucked but by no means was it all "Hell". guys, just wanted you to know that my sisters and I are Very close, as are some of the boys and 8 out of 9 ain't bad. Seriously, my dad drank too much but that doesn't sum him up; he was also a man who tried hard, when sober, to do the right thing, and he was in many ways, a great man. He was complicated. My siblings are all very witty, 3 of us do stand up comedy. Growing up we had a lot of laughter in the home, and music/art from my mother. She painted and played the piano and built us a tree house...my dad paid us to read classic books and give oral reports/(i.e., speak in front of people)---4 of us are lawyers, but don't hold that against us....
I had done forgiveness work for a long time, with my dad. So when he was dying of cancer in a hospital room, and asked for forgiveness from me, I meant it when I said "you are forgiven." It was THE most spiritual moment of my life.
Today, my family gets together often, the sisters (and mom) speak almost daily no matter where we live, and I've been able to take my mom on cruises and trips overseas, b/c I owe her so much, and she is hilarious. I have so many friends who LOVE my family and wish theirs was as close....don't feel sorry for me....I am at peace and am grateful my family wasn't so "normal." Yep, things bad happened and I sure won't do those things to my kids. But please, I am NOT unfortunate, or saddled by sad memories of the past...nor do I see myself as "overcoming" some huge adversity to accomplish what I have...seriously, look at Africa and the Middle East... I thank God I live where and when I live...
I say all this "happy" stuff, to balance what I shared earlier. NOT due to any shame, either. I just cannot stand to hear people who got hurt then choose to STAY hurt....I went to some adult child of alcoholics meetings and saw a guy from work there and we spoke, it was the holidays and he had an issue...about 5 years later I saw him at another meeting with the SAME exact issue....I just don't want to ever be like that guy---No progress over decades of life----Still blaming parents for their failures, real or perceived---and just STUCK forever... Anyone know what I'm talking about?
I like support groups at times of crisis and self discovery, and I LOVE this type of bb support group for ongoing work too. But that's b/c most people here ARE working on our lives.....But sometimes we just get bogged down in our victim labels - and I see SO MUCH of that in Rocco's words, I guess i want to warn others to watch for this...it is No way to live...let alone to be happy.
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Right again mlc. when we get bogged down in our victim labels, we can't do anything positive about our situation. My whole childhood didn't suck, either. We had lots of great times, my stepfather loved to travel, so we did lots of it all over the country and to Canada and Mexico. My father, even though an alcoholic, loved his kids, and never lifted a hand to us. Of course, after the age of ten, I didn't see him for a long time, but by then, he had quit drinking, and I loved his sense of humor, alot like mine. I found a lot of stuff we had in common. He died about 6 years ago, and I miss some of the talks we had. He, too told me he was sorry. We all get together at least a couple of times a year, and are pretty close. I love my mother, but we have never been close, I am the one she calls for info about the others. My early life was hard, but I let go of the bad parts, and when I think back, it's usually the good stuff that I think of. The situation I am in now, is harder than any of that, because now I am a grown up and have to fix it myself. So, if I were to sit and stew over past hurts, I would never be able to DB and move forward with my work on M. My H was acting very happy this morning, so who knows? You are right that Rocco has seemed to get kind of stuck in the hurts, but maybe now that he has started counseling with Laurie, he will start to move forward past the hurts.
Hey Unhappy, it looks like you are really moving along with your positive mental attitude. Taking control must feel good to you. Giving it up sure is feeling good to me. Good for you I am happy for you, pretty sonn maybe you can change to HappyInAZ. L
I am sorry to say that my nephew, Steven, passed away this past Saturday. Nothing prepared me, my two brothers and my youngest sister when we went to see him on Saturday. When we got there, the deacon was holding hands and praying with my other sister and her husband around their only child.
After it was over, I walked in, saw the horror that I saw, and lasted only about a minute before I had to walk out. Of course, we were all in the room later on, but there is nothing worse then to see an innocent boy go through this. I can somewhat understand when a war veteran talks about the horror of death in battle.
My nephew had a lot of things wrong with him. He has had many surgeries throughout his short life. My sister would have to bath him, help him go to the bathroom, feed him, etc. I cannot understand the extent of what she and her husband had to go through in taking care of such sick child.
But when I walked into that room for the 1st time, my sister’s head was on his arm, and she was petting his hand. Both of his lungs were filled with blood, his body was blown up like a balloon that I didn’t even recognize him as my own nephew. His heart was beating, sometimes as high as 228 beats per minute, the machines he was hooked up to, was helping him breath and his body was bouncing up and down because the machines were helping him breath. Because his lungs were filled with blood from the lung disease that he had, the blood was oozing a little out of his mouth and nose. He was heavily sedated and his eyes stared into space and never even blinked. He looked like a live corpse is the best way I can describe it, but I can’t even come close to explaining how bad he looked because no one can understand unless they saw it for themselves. Thank God my mom didn’t go because she wouldn’t have survived it herself.
And there is nothing I could do about it to help my nephew or my sister. There is no words, no comfort to make the pain and sorrow go away. My sister related a story about a man at her Roman Catholic Church. This man approached my nephew about 3 weeks ago, took his hand and said to my nephew “Thank you for saving my life.” My nephew and my sister said “Why?” The man said he was suffering from depression all his life, but when he would see Steve, he said, why am I so sad? Steven was a boy who never complained, was always happy, never felt sorry for himself, never said an unkind word to anybody, never said why me, never blamed God for his misfortune, etc.
I realize this weekend he was the strongest person I ever knew. In terms of strength, he was light years ahead of me, for as you can see, I am a constant complainer, who does feel sorry for himself. My nephew has the heart and strength of a lion.
Me, at church yesterday, I had to leave right after communion, go in the basement of the church where CCD is taught, go in one of the classrooms, and cry my eyes out to the point I lost my breath. I will never get that image of my nephew out of my mind. I feel so heart broken, especially for my sister, her husband and the grandparents. Certainly, no one expects to bury their own children, or grandchildren for that matter.
I plan to write a eulogy to my nephew Steven, though no one knows that right now. I am going to start it by saying that Steven couldn’t walk for the last 12 or so years of his life. I am going to end it by saying, “Although Steven couldn’t walk for the last 12 years of his life, and he is now flying amongst the angels in heaven.”
I have to try and get back to work to keep my mind off of it. I did take my children to the Halloween Train Ride yesterday to take my mind off of it. I cleaned the bathrooms and worked a little about the house, but a lot of the time, my kids were sad because they had to see me cry for much of the day. Yesterday, they sang happy birthday to me, but I was in no mood to celebrate. I thanked them all for it. I kissed my kids and hugged my wife. My W was very supportive, and she even consoled me but touching me, so that was good.
Please pray for my family during this very difficult time.
We had a good discussion last night - really confronting the issue of lack of intimacy head on. I have made it clear that we need to address the issues of lack of intimacy, and that this is another facet of the crisis that needs to be fixed for the relationship to move on.
The dynamic in our relationship has been that intimacy is tied to other things that it is not related to. In other words, it became kind of a reward system, or it became bound up in my wife's emotions about unrelated things (frustrations with children, etc). Or, her rigidity about her schedule, her housework, etc, results in her deciding she cannot be available at bedtime (she needs her sleep, the housework is not done, etc). In other words, it goes in last place behind everything else for whatever reason. The net result, as I said above, was a very infrequent intimate life, and a situation where I had to initiate all affection for it to happen. There are more specifics, but suffice it to say it is very frustrating for both of us. When the intimacy happens, it is great, but that just leads to more frustration when it doesn't. I have tried to tell her that I personally will make it freely available and I have been making this crystal clear in many ways - affirming her, wooing her, taking her on dates, making my intentions unmistakeable. When she throws up the usual roadblocks, I told her I expect her to meet her responsibilities as well, but I am having trouble making this clear in a way that doesn't result in her feeling that she is just being used.
In any case, our discussion confronted this head on, so we will see if the attitude can be changed. I am hopeful, because, like in the other areas, change is now necessary in this for us to move to the next plane in our relationship.
Rocco, so sorry about your nephew. You were there for your family, that's what they needed. I am glad you went on with plans for the kids, they probably needed it. It's okay if the kids saw your grief, I'm sure they are very sad over the loss of their cousin, too. Sometimes a child can teach us so much about life, about what is really important. As time goes on, you will remember less of the final moments and what will remain will be a joyous life to celebrate. I am glad to see your W consoled you; it shows you she does have a heart after all. Maybe she is an overwhelmed person with a lot of care on her shoulders. I'll say a prayer for your family. L
Thank you for your kind words. Its been a tough year. My aunt, also my godmother, died last October, my uncle died last month, but loosing a child is really tough. I learned one thing and that is to cherish the precious gift of a child that God gives you. Children should be told at least once a day that you love them. If parents don't do that, they fail as parents. Children should not be criticized for their mistakes or failures, rather, they should be loved and supported and accepted for who they are, just as they are. It saddens me that I had put my children through a DYFS person. That was very hard on them, and I am responsible for it and have to live with it now. I got very bad advice to do what I did, and I should have thought with my heart, not my mind. I know that is in the past, I have to work on the future. My W is overwehelmed with a lot on her shoulders. A lot of times she does it to herself. Why is it so important to work on one project after another at home, rather then 1st work on your own relationship? I think that's wrong. Only time will tell. Perhaps, in praying to my nephew now, maybe he will intercede for me and ask God to allow my W to have a forgiving heart. I don't think we can move forward without forgivness and forgetting the past. My youngest sister still blames my parents for the way things are, and she is 39 years old. Yet my other sister, who just lost her son, isn't complaining. She is more then devestated, yes, but who wouldn't be. I hope her and her husband seek somebody to talk to for grief counseling. Rocco
Unhappy have you ever read "Love Life for Every Married Couple", by Dr. Ed Wheat? It is the first book I got even before DR and DB. This book talks all about intimacy and what you said about it sometimes being all wrapped up in things that have nothing to do with sexual intimacy. It is written from a Christian perspective, which I find helpful. Sometimes women have a hard time getting in the mood if there is stuff yet to be done, like housework. I couldn't care less about housework, which is unfortunately one of my H's complaints about me, but I am trying to at least keep the house fairly clean, now. But sleep, is one of the things that was a problem with us. My H would want to be intimate after I was already in bed asleep, after he had watched tv late, exercised and otherwise found stuff to keep himself busy. Now I have learned to put that all aside, and he comes to bed earlier, thank goodness. And when he doesn't, I try to go to bed earlier so I can get a decent night's sleep. of course there's always the morning. If she feels she is being used, then try some of the stuff in this book. Don't tell her to do her wifely duties, that might make her even less apt to do so. Do you help her around the house? Do a task that she hates to do, and see if she appreciates that, but don't tell her you did it just to get some later. Some women also really like for their H to initiate intimacy most of the time or even all the time. It doesn't always mean they don't want it. I am learning to initiate sometimes, too. Good Luck to you, I hope what you are doing helps. L
Hey Rocco, I am sorry for your loss. I held my mother as she died in a similar scenario a couple of years ago. You're right, nothing prepares you for that type of experience. It will stick with you, but you will grow stronger from it. Write your eulogy, and find the best way you can to say goodbye and to celebrate his life. For, as you say, he overcame his physical challenges to touch those around him, including you. That means his life was something to celebrate. You all will go through this, and you will grow from it. I will pray for your family.
You have had a tough year, Rocco, but now it's time to grieve and then do what you need to do to help yourself. Your kids seeing and talking to a DYFS person, probably did them no lasting harm, they got stuff out in the open, and that can only help them. Your wife getting overwhelmed with stuff that she brings on herself, is possibly a coping mechanism for her. If she can do lots of projects and stay very busy, she doesn't have to think so much about all the problems. You may think it's wrong, but I bet she thinks your way of coping is wrong, too. One thing you could do in a few days or so, Thank your W for being there for you when your nephew died. Show her and tell her you appreciate that. And remember don't forgive her and then take the forgiveness back. Would God do that? Good Luck, L
Sorry about your nephew and I sure send my best to your sister and her husband. It is interesting how one person's perspective can be so much more positive even though their external sitch looks bleak....
Your children will someday face death in your family and so, seeing what you DO now and in the next few weeks, will model for THEM how to respond when it happens in their life. I grieved after my father's death and my children saw me do so, but they also saw me eventually move forward, laugh and love again. Our pain is NOT fatal and it is Not eternal and it Will pass and those are things you can teach your children, right now.
good luck, j
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you everyone for your support. Children sure can teach us a lot of the kind of person you should be. I just about finished my eulogy, have to fine tune it, my sister said she was pleased that I am wrote it. I was at my parents last night. My sister and her husband had been gone most of the day doing the dreadful work regarding funeral arrangement. She came back in the evening very distraught and upset and there is nothing I can do to remove the pain she is suffering. She has great faith and trust in Jesus and told me that is what is getting her through this.
My W's way of coping with things is to do one project after another. She told me that in the past. And you're right, my wife thinks I am wrong in the way I cope with things just the way I think she is wrong the way she copes with things.
My nephew taught me a lot. This is a boy who is in heaven and was a very humble person. My sister told me yesterday, that one evening at church on Holy Thursday, she couldn't get him to leave after mass. Standing right next to him she called to him, touched him, but he didn't hear her. Finally, my nephew came back and my sister questioned him. He said to her, "Mom, didn't you see the light?" She said, no and that was it. She said that she realized Steven had a vision, seeing more then just light, but out of humility, Steven didn't say what else he saw. And that is not the 1st time that has happened to him. In the gospel, Jesus does say that to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must have the heart of a child, meaning, one must be innocent and humble. He certainly taught me a lot and I have to put that into practice in my own life.
At church yesterday, my sister told me that the priest said that God has welcomed a new saint, Saint Steven. I told my daughter that this morning. She told that to my w and my w questioned me why I would say that and I just answered her that that is what the priest told my sister at mass. My w raised her eyebrows and left, a signal once again that in her mind, I said the wrong thing to my children. That is what happens to people who have no faith or trust in God.
When I finish my euology, I would like to attach it to this site as a word documnet. The funeral is this Saturday. Please continue to pray for my family, especially my sister and her husband.
Rocco, I am sorry for what you are going through right now. You'll get through ir okay, though. Let me ask you something. Is your W of the same religion as you? If not, she perhaps has different beliefs on certain things, maybe that's why she will give you those looks. Or maybe she is questioning her beliefs. You take care of yourself and hug your kids and your W, too, if she will let you. L
I have attached my nephew's eulogy and begin a sentence in CAPS, an area about myself and relationships. Do you think I should say this and it won't offend or anger my wife? Listed below is the condensed version. PLEASE COMMENT TO MY COMMENT LISTTED IN CAPS.
Steven's Eulogy
For the last 12 years or so of Steven’s short life, he couldn’t walk. Now that may be an odd and strange way to begin a eulogy, and I would agree with you. In fact, it sounds crazy to begin a eulogy this way. It’s not so crazy though since I am the one who wrote it, which tells you a lot about me. However, there is a reason for beginning it this way and I will revisit that when I close my eulogy with an added remark, and then it will, I hope for many of you, make sense, so please bear with me.
I have thought about Steven a lot over the past week and I have learned a lot about Steven this past week, more then I ever knew before during his lifetime. This was a boy who I never heard complain, feel sorry for himself, didn’t blame anyone or God for his misfortune or ever utter “why me or why did this happen to me?” Based on what was told to me by Richard, his father, Steven was a boy who never said an unkind word about anybody and when I always saw him, he was always smiling. You would all have to agree that Steven had a positive attitude. And in all the struggles Steven had to endure, I ask myself, how is it possible for someone to go through life with all the physical problems he had and be the kind of person he was?
This was a boy who had the inner strength, heart and courage of a lion. A strength so strong, that for me personally, I am light years behind him. And I think about where did he find such courage and strength? First and foremost he had to get that strength from Jesus. Secondly, he also got this from his parents, Therese and Richard. As their parents, I never heard them complain either, so they set a great example for Steven.
"THERESE shared with me in the hospital about a situation that happened at her church a few weeks ago. A man approached Steven and said to him, “Thank you for Saving my Life.” Steven and Therese looked at him wondering why this man would say that. The man didn’t elaborate of what caused his pain and why he was suffering other then to say, “I have suffered from depression for many years of my life, but when I saw your son in a wheelchair every week in church, he was always smiling. And the man said to himself, “Why am I so miserable?” One never knows how much or how long this man was suffering from depression. Was he at a point to take his own life and hurt those who loved him too? How many others did Steven help during his lifetime we will never know, but I believe he helped a lot of people. And he helped these people by just being himself. And that brings up my next point about children. The thing that comes to mind is to love and cherish our children. "CHILDREN are a precious gift from God and they should be loved for just who they are, not who you want them to be or who you think they should be. We should all be treated this way. It makes us feel good when we are treated this way." (I HAVE SAID TO MY WIFE IN THE PAST THAT IT HURTS ME THAT PEOPLE DO NOT ACCEPT ME).
"STEVEN was not a proud person at all but a very humble person, something we all should strive for. Therese also shared with me that when Steven got upset or angry at someone, he was quick to apologize for his behavior. He would call the person to come to him because he had to and tell that person just how sorry he was. Not to do so, would be an act of pride. And you could never say a dirty word around Steven. If you did, he would correctly tell you “That wasn’t nice or that was wrong, now you should go to confession.” That is the kind of inner strength he exemplified. Wasn’t Jesus a humble person? He came into this world born in a stable, not a way we would expect a king to enter the world. If that’s not a sign of humility, then I don’t know what is. In man’s way of thinking, a king should come into this world born in a luxurious setting, surrounded by dukes and dignitaries and honored for who they are. But that is not how Jesus entered this world. In the gospel, Jesus states that to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must have the heart of a child. I believe that means that children are innocent and humble and that is the way to enter heaven. Steven knew that more then most people and its something we should learn too. Not just learn it, but practice it and live it, just the way Steven did." (AGAIN, I HAVE TOLD MY WIFE SHE IS NOT A HUMBLE PERSON).
"STEVEN passed into heaven on October 28, 2006. I found out about it the following day on October 29th, my birthday. Selfishly, I felt cheated this way and once again began to feel sorry for myself. So as you can see, I have much self-improvement work ahead of me. However, this past Wednesday, I decided to turn this into a positive. I am actually fortunate to find out about Steven going into heaven on my birthday. Why? Because now I will always remember that day as the day I found out my nephew went to heaven. I will be able to recall just who Steven was and what he meant to so many people. It will be a constant reminder to me to become the loving husband, father, son and brother I should be because I want to be a better man. I want to be able to be this person where it becomes 2nd nature for me so I don’t have to even think about it, just let it come naturally. I’m not there yet, but that is one of my goals." (A MESSAGE TO MY WIFE THAT MY GOAL IS TO CHANGE).
To close, people will say that Steven was taken much too soon by God, and its perfectly understandable to say that. I’ve said it myself. Steven is no longer suffering but it’s the people he left behind who are in pain. Right now, Therese and Richard need our love and support as much as possible. Steven overcame his physical challenges to touch those around him and that is something to celebrate. Steven, I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for teaching me so much about life. I hope you all have learned something from Steven too. And to get back to my opening remarks, Steven was a boy who couldn’t walk for the last 12 years or so of his life. But now, not only is he walking, he is flying amongst the angels in heaven. Let us be successful to, like Steven, and let us strive to get to heaven too.
I love you Steven, we all love you, and we will forever miss you during our time here on earth. God Bless all of you.
Love,
Uncle Rocky
Given this day, in the year of our Lord, November 4, 2006 at our Lady of the Mountain Church.
Rocco, very nice eulogy to Steven. You said that you have told your W that it hurts you when people don't accept you. Did you realize that you are not accepting that she has a different viewpoint on religion? It definitely seems to be a sore spot with you. You have a VERY different viewpoint on religion from me, but I respect your right to have your own free will to exercise your right to believe how you want. Also, why tell your W she is not a humble person? You do throw in a lot of criticism of her, yet you haven't done a lot to show her that you really want things to change. You have to change you. You cannot change her. She will possibly change to meet your changes, we can only hope. what have you tried to do to help her see positive changes in you? Just curious, but I would really like to know how you are really trying to change. L
Unhappy, where have you been? it looks like we have all been taking some time off here, maybe to regroup and freshen our minds. How are things going with you? Have any of you efforts paid off? Is your W starting to see that you are not going to let her bait you into an argument? Have you or she tried reading any of the books about intimacy? Maybe they can help. There are some good Christian based books out there. Have you ever asked her what would make her want to be intimate more often? You never know what it could be. L
I would say what you have said in your eulogy, and not worry about your wife's reaction. You are saying lessons you learned from Stephen. If she takes offense it is her problem. A eulogy is a good way to grieve. I encourage you to share it with everyone else.
My wife and I are starting to get to the core of our issues in discussions. Basically, here is the dynamic that is dominating our discussions:
1) My wife believes that, at some level, I have shown her I 'don't care' about the family. This is due to issues she has with work hours, business travel, etc. I travel about 25% of the time on average, and I work about 50 hrs per week.
2) My wife believes that, fundamentally, the only way she can ensure I act 'like I care' is to try and force things. She repeatedly says some form of "the only time you do what is right is when I 'make' you do it". This particular comment I find hurtful when she says it.
3) Therefore, when I do do what is right in her eyes, she does not give me credit for doing so, because she 'made' me do it. Therefore, I cannot earn her approval, if that were my goal.
4) I believe my wife is a very needy and insecure person. She has few relationships outside our family, and so she tends to attribute too much of her self esteem to our relationship and her relationships with the boys. This in turn, manifests itself in attempts to control.
5) Since I have been pushing the intimacy issues really hard, it has become much more clear that the reason we don't have enough is because my wife lets so many insecurities from other areas of her life affect this area. Worries about our sons and their issues, worries about my work time, worries about money. She can no longer say that I am the problem, as she once did.
I believe my attempts at independence are very unsettling to my wife at the moment. At the same time, the kids are becoming more independent and need less of her time. It is a total sea change for her, and she doesn't know how to react. She can see the relationship is changing, and that her life is undergoing big changes, and she doesn't know what to do with all of it. She swings from looking forward to the future to recriminating about the past. She swings from trying to be loving to being very denigrating.
My struggle is that, no matter what I do, I cannot force her to establish a life outside the home. I have encouraged her to make friends, to go to school, to do things, but she feels she cannot, that she is 'too busy'. I have invited her on business trips, but she says she can't. I want to love her and help her, and I try, but how do I help her do this? How can I help her to let go, and to start looking outside these problems to what life has to offer her?
I have to cut it down from 5 pages to 2 pages and make sure I just talk about Steven and not how what he did affected me. So I have taking the humility part out of the eulogy other then to say 2 sentences of how Steven dealt with it when he got angry. In addition, I have cut out a lot of things regarding children other then to say that they should be loved and supported as they are, not what we parents think they should be. That's about all I said on that one.
One change I did make is for the longest time I have always hated cats and said very often and for many years that I wish cats were extinct. My W has a cat and she and my children love cats.
On Sunday, while carving pumpkins, the cat came by and I would normally scare it away. However, I quickly thought what my nephew would do and what would he want me to do. Instead I fed the cat. And when I got home from work, I already knew my W was taking my kids trick or treating since we discussed it earlier in the day. The cat cryed and I fed her. Later, I reflected on Steven and I let my emotions get the beter of me. The cat, being in the same room with me, ended up next to me because I got it. The cat doesn't trust me and I don't blame her because to her, I probably resemble Frankenstein. Anyway, I held and petted her and when my family came home, I took them by complete surprise and they were happy to see that. My w asked me about it and I told her what happened, but I did, tell a lie because I said the cat came to me to console me. This morning, my dauther brought the cat to me and she was scared. My daughter tried to explain that I was no threat to her and again I repeated the Frankenstein line and my w her that too. If someone told me 2 weeks ago that I would treat a cat this way, I would have said you are either on drugs or completly insane.
Last night I told my w about a discussion I had with my family this past Monday night when I went to visit. My sister and her husband had not come home yet. The past was brought up. My other sister said we are not a close family and pointed to my mother that it was her fault. In all honesty, my mom never told us she loved us. On the contrary, she was very critical of us and would compare us to our cousins. We knew she loved us because she would do things in other ways, but it was not something she expressed. My w was taken by surprise that mom would do that. She was especially hard on my two sisers. I told my sister "You know, I am just as guilty as you are. When I get upset, angry, hurt, I react back as I was a child. We can't use that excuse anymore. Were adults. If were not a close family, we can change that. It is going to take work on our part, but I hope it becomes 2nd nature that we do this without even thinking about it. I told them we should start telling each other that we love them. I told the whole family that before I went home and kissed them all goodbye before I left. I made sure to tell my younger brother to do the same since he left before me.
Thank you all for telling me that earlier, I just didn't understand what you were saying because I didn't feel it. I do now. I am actually considering telling my BIL and FIL the same thing, regardless of 3 priests telling me I don't and shouldn't do that since they were the ones who were rude and hurtful. I believe my nephew would want me to do that. My reaction to them was due to my own insecurities and my own past. Just feeling the way I do right now, I feel a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders. What a relief.
2) My wife believes that, fundamentally, the only way she can ensure I act 'like I care' is to try and force things. She repeatedly says some form of "the only time you do what is right is when I 'make' you do it". This particular comment I find hurtful when she says it.
My wife has said the same thing to me and then she feels like she is a nag. I need to recognize what household chores need to be done around the house. If she says, I need you to do this or that, I will smile and say of course I will do it. She asked me this past Sunday if I would clean the bathtub, and I told her I would be glad to and keeping me busy will take my mind off Steven so thank you for suggesting that to me.
3) Therefore, when I do do what is right in her eyes, she does not give me credit for doing so, because she 'made' me do it. Therefore, I cannot earn her approval, if that were my goal.
Yeah, I've gotten that too and you feel you are like in a no-win situation. Accept that fact, think on it briefly and then let it go (I can't believe its me giving this type of advice). Continue to do it anyway and do it because you love God.
4) I believe my wife is a very needy and insecure person. She has few relationships outside our family, and so she tends to attribute too much of her self esteem to our relationship and her relationships with the boys. This in turn, manifests itself in attempts to control.
My wife is also insecure and had very few friends. She is insecure about her weight too and blames me because the stress and anger I put her through makes it tough to loose the rest of the weight. That may be true in her mind, but its not. Ignore it, be the big person.
5) Since I have been pushing the intimacy issues really hard, it has become much more clear that the reason we don't have enough is because my wife lets so many insecurities from other areas of her life affect this area. Worries about our sons and their issues, worries about my work time, worries about money. She can no longer say that I am the problem, as she once did.
I have not pushed intimacy what so ever because were not ready. In fact, I don't know if my wife will ever forgive me so I just have to be patient.
She can see the relationship is changing, and that her life is undergoing big changes, and she doesn't know what to do with all of it. She swings from looking forward to the future to recriminating about the past. She swings from trying to be loving to being very denigrating.
I hope my w sees changes in me too, but if she has, I know she will never say so because she is too proud. Again, that is her issue, not mine and I have to accept that.
I want to love her and help her, and I try, but how do I help her do this? How can I help her to let go, and to start looking outside these problems to what life has to offer her?
Sorry, I don't have an answer to that one, but I wish I did. If someone else does, please tell us.
One thing I forgot to add is something else that was said last night during our discussion.
As my w knows, I had a bowl obstruction in late June. I lost some weight then and never was able to put it back on. Then last week, I thought I got another obstruction and have lost my appetite and since last Wednesday. I have ate very little to what I normally eat. Then loosing my nephew last Saturday has really been difficult for me.
I told her that when I went on the scale on Sunday, I weighed 155 pounds. Monday, I weighed 154, Tuesday, 153 and Wed, 152 pounds. This morning, I decided not to weigh myself for fear of loosing another pound. I normally weigh between 165 and 170 pounds. All my clothes are baggy and everybody who sees me has to notice.
She told me I need more protein in my diet. I told her that I was going out to the supermarket and purchase Ensure Plus. This afternoon we talked about things other then our relationship. She told me she bought a roaster and said to me to eat that and some veggies. I thanked her for that. I guess that is good news, and as my DB coach said, jot that down.
However, I don't want to appear too hopeful for fear of disapointment.
That's great that yall are starting to discuss your issues. Do you call her when you are traveling to let her know what you are doing and to reassure her that you are thinking about her and do care? Are there things that you could do BEFORE she asks you to that would show you care? We are all needy at some level, and all of us have some insecurities, some more so than others. Maybe that is where your reassurancves would come in. If she no longer feels you are the problem with intimacy issues, that's good, right. Won't that make it easier for her when you two sit down and discuss your finances and she can see just what you have and what goes out each month, and when she sees that you and she will work together so she doesn't have to worry about the money issues? And when you find out just what about the boys worries her so much. And could you sometimes cut out of work early while the boys are at school to take her to lunch or spend the day at home with her just doing whatever she wants to do? I totally understand the kids not needing so much of her time as they used to, my S is 13, almost 14, and I see that with me, too. He is more independent wanting to spend some time with friends, and it is hard on the mother, because she has been their all for so many years that it is very unsettling to find that you are not as needed as you once were. Keep asking her on your business trips and tell her you will do something special as soon as your business is wrapped up for the day. Maybe she needs a lot of persuading to leave her comfort zone. I, too have had a hard time establishing a life outside the home, and I am not there yet. I have friends, but no really close ones. I didn't finish college, and my H says he will not pay for it, so I can't do that, without financial aid, he wants me to work, and I intend to go Monday to see about a job, so hopefully that will make him see a new me is really forming. I understand looking back and wishing things had been different in some ways, but then knowing I didn't do badly in some ways, too. It is just my H deciding that things were very bad and he may want out, even though he says he is giving me a chance to change. I only know my whole life has been wrapped up in being wife and mother, and I loved the two roles, but apparently didn't do the greatest job with one of them. so, change has to happen and I have to go forward into an uncertain future. Let me know how things progress with you, Unhappy, I am glad you two are getting to the heart of your problems. L
Rocco, that sounds nice that she was concerned about you and wanted to fix something special for you to eat. Yeah, don't show that you are too hopeful, even if you are. why don't you go get some new clothes that fit? Surprise her with that! All my clothes are too big, too, so I am having to dig out my smaller jeans from years ago, I have lost 50 lbs. since july. I won't say my weight like you did, but I like being smaller. It sure has surprised my H. I really think your W sounds like she wants to nurture you, so let her. Did you tell her thanks for being there for you this past week? L
Its funny I have been trying most of what you suggest! I took a day off, I have come home early. I need to be a bit more creative on doing special things. I have taken to calling her all the time when I am on trips, so she knows whats up. She doesn't want to travel on trips because she doesn't want to go exploring alone while do my business, but that may change.
I have told her to take her time and go to college if she wants to - we have plenty of money to afford that. She is coming around. She says she feels 'worthless'. I don't want to rescue her - I just say I value what she does. She needs to spend some time on forgiving percieved hurts about that - for some reason she feels I devalue har as a person too. I am getting to the bottom of it, but I keep finding surprises.
We have had more intimacy, which has helped a lot. My feelings for her are starting to come around, and I am learning to push her buttons.
After we all ate at the restaruant following the funeral, most people were going back to their own homes. Prior to my W walking out the door to take our children home, I kissed her on the cheek (I'm surprised she let me), and thanked her for coming to my nephew's funeral. She just said, of course I would. I added that my extended famiily, parents and siblings, were meeting at my Mom house so I would be home later that evening.
The funeral was very sad, especially when I had to see my sister put her head on her son's chest, petting his hair for the last time before the casket was closed. However, my sister is stronger then most in this world. The reason she told me is quite simple. Her inner strength, faith and trust in Jesus Christ is what is getting her through this. She wonders how a parent who doesn't have that could get through this. She told me had her son lived, he was only going to be scheduled for more and more surgeries and knows he is no longer suffering and is with Jesus now.
I want to share something with you of something my nephew Steven wrote as a freshman in high school over two years ago of an English assignment he had, read by his teacher. Here goes.
I am in a wheelchair and disabled I wonder what I would do in the future I hear flowers I see the light of heaven I want to be rich I am in a wheelchair and disabled
I pretend to be a character on TV I feel goodness in my heart I touch the love of my parents I worry about surgeries I cry when I get yelled at I am in a wheelchair and disabled
I understand how important it is to work hard I say you should love people I dream of good and bad things I try to do my best I hope I will walk again I am in a wheelchair and disabled.
There wasn't a dry eye at the funeral parlor after the teacher read this. And the line my nephew said about "I want to be rich" the teacher said that when discussed with Steven, he wasn't talking about money, he was talking about rich in love.
