Quote: Thanks GH..I will. I'm always looking for input/advice. Especially from one of the "Masters" of the board.
Um, ok
Quote: It does seem as though the rush to get it done has slowed down a bit with my W.
Again, hindsight is 20/20 but I went back and archived all my threads (just in case you want to do this, the best way I found to do it is to go to each thread, click on the link at the bottom that says "Print Thread" and then save the window that opens as an HTML file from your browser).
Anyway, as I was doing that, I read the first post of each thread and it's amazing how much time and energy I wasted worrying about OM, W's feelings, etc.
I don't know if I would have done things differently but I surely would get to work on learning to be direct/to take action MUCH sooner than I did. OT told me to do that all the time and I thought she was crazy. Why would I want to be direct and take action with a woman who didn't want me?
Turns out she didn't want me as much because she thought I didn't want her as anything else. Go figure. How did she miss all that desperation over the past year? Oh, you mean desperation, neediness and cling-on behavior don't register to a woman as passion and desire? Hmmmmmm...
GH Communication really is the key to the intimacy stuff. We also had a similar thing and once we finally broke the ice and began to discuss things, we were both on the same page but neither of us knew how to share properly. Does that make sense? Both of us were afraid of rejection. Both of us felt afraid. But we both wanted the same thing. So many wasted years! I am learning to allow myself to enjoy my Husband in the bedroom and am constantly reaffirming him. I see that my words and my actions towards him seem to bring out a confidence in him that I have never seen before. It makes me feel good to see him this way.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
I don't know if I would have done things differently but I surely would get to work on learning to be direct/to take action MUCH sooner than I did. OT told me to do that all the time and I thought she was crazy. Why would I want to be direct and take action with a woman who didn't want me?
Turns out she didn't want me as much because she thought I didn't want her as anything else. Go figure. How did she miss all that desperation over the past year? Oh, you mean desperation, neediness and cling-on behavior don't register to a woman as passion and desire? Hmmmmmm...
GH
Isn't there a fine line between being direct and being needy? This part confuses me. I don't know exactly how to be direct with my W. She knows where I stand and I just otld her the other day that this is something she wants and she has to do it.
In the past I would beg, plead and borrow to get what I needed out of her. She has recognized that and tells me that she doesn't want to hurt me anymore.
The focus has become more about me and less about her but, my focus can be on her and the OM all too often. Not directly to her, but subconciously. My issue becomes whether or not it is worth the wait. Like you stated. Why would I want to focus my attention on someone who doesn't want me? What good does it do me to keep hanging on? I would love for reconcilliation, but I don't see it happening.
M-35 going on 15 D-8 S- 3 yrs ex-CL(w)- 30
D over one year
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. Douglas Adams "Just Be"
Oops, we must have cross-posted CM. I missed this one...
Quote: I guess I want you to tell me that my pursuit of anger will subside if I continue practicing being more passive? Not a good day in the land of CM
NO. Your anger will subside for two reasons. First, because you recognize that NOBODY and NOTHING can CAUSE you to be angry. Anger is YOUR reaction to a stimuli. The example a book I read once used is a traffic jam. If there were things that could MAKE you angry, then they would affect everyone the same. In the case of the traffic jam, take two drivers, both late for work. One gets angry, yells at the other drivers, curses his bad luck, yells, screams, and generally freaks out while another driver simply recognizes he has little control over the situation and just calmly calls in to work telling them he'll be late, turns up the music to drown out the noise of the a$$hole yelling at everyone next to him and waits for things to clear up.
The point is, you CAN react differently to a situation but certain sitches are triggers for your anger and it's those sitches you really need to learn to watch out for and DECIDE to react without anger to.
Second, your anger will subside because you understand, just like driver #2 in the above scenario, that you have NO CONTROL over certain things and getting angry DOES NO GOOD FOR ANYONE, ESPECIALLY YOU!
It has nothing to do with being passive. Just because you don't act like a jerk when something happens you don't like doesn't mean you're passive. Passive just means you are not doing ANYTHING. What you need to learn to do is SOMETHING different than being angry.
Quote: For example this morning I wanted to drive by her apt. b/c she is supposed to take the kids tonight, yet she has been needing her "rest" so much that she's not sure she will be able to. My thinking is if she needed her rest, why is she staying over at the OM's house? So I was looking to get angry and start an argument.
Why? Can you see that this kind of thing, LONG before the affair, etc, was probably a big part of the problem. Instead of being supportive/compassionate, you get angry because she is not doing what you expect her to do, or more importantly, what YOU would do in a similar sitch.
She needs her rest because she is under a TREMENDOUS amount of stress, probably a bit depressed and is looking for an escape. Certainly talking to YOU in not any help because you just pass judgment so talking to OM, who probably gives her a shoulder to cry on and says everything is going to be ok, or sleeping seems to be the best options.
Maybe if your anger was not the main reaction you had in certain cases, she would be more likely to open up to you. This was a HUGE issue in my marriage and one that once overcome, made a BIG difference in how we communicated. Even now I have to remind my W that I no longer get defensive or angry at certain things...and she knows it too.
CM, you just have to learn to take charge of yourself and quit placing the blame for how YOU FEEL on her. You feel the way you do because you choose to.
I tried something in the middle of my sitch, when the affair was still going strong and things were NOT good. I was crying daily and one day I just decided I would NOT cry. I would NOT let myself get upset over this thing I was not in control of. You know what? It worked. I was able to will myself to react differently to the situation. Mind you, it didn't last long, but it lasted long enough for me to see what was possible if I TRULY wanted it.
That brings me to my last point, one I have made more than once around here. I think that, myself included, LBS often get used to the pain. They get used to the drama. They get used to the anger to the point where it becomes a comfort to them. It's an entitlement they have. They're entitled to be upset all the time, look what she/he did to me.
The REAL changes come when we take the risk to let go of the comfort the pain gives us and begin to WANT to be happy more than we want to be "right" or "angry" because trust me, those two things are what I wanted more than most anything for several months.
You have to WANT this bad enough to abandon your sense of entitlement. She DID do something to hurt you but you continue to re-inflict that wound because to do otherwise suggests you are "over it". It does not suggest that, it suggests you are learning to take responsibility for your own happiness and the first step to doing that is to let go of being unhappy.
I was going to qoute what you posted here, but I figured it would be a lonnnng post. I will try to summerize as best as I can.
The No Control/powerlessness is something I have been working on and doing fairly well with. I've had to deal with this in my addictions and now w/ my W. I have been getting a lot better at dealing with this outwardly, but inwardly things still bother me until I talk about them or type about them. When I put it into words it helps me get it off my chest.
I have been learning and practicing to not react. I believe I am getting better. Or at least I am trying to. I have noticed a little difference in my W's response and I believe she is trying to get a reaction out of me by some of her comments and actions.
I think my blaming is more an acceptance issue within myself. When I'm in the "I accept things as how they are" mood, I do a lot better. If I'm not at peace with how things are, then I become angry. That was my issue this morning. I was in limbo with how things were. I'd had a bad dream. A dear friend lost his grandmother. Of course all these things are just me trying to place blame on other things.
She might need her rest and according to the phone call I had with her this morning. But, and I shouldn't care...she is obviously fine in the evenings when she is at her house. I'm ok with whatever, now that I know. She won't be getting the kids tonight, they will be with me b/c of her illness.
The pain and crying have subsided. They are not completely gone and I need to make a conscious effort to remove myself of them. We as human do tend to become comfy on our pity pots. I am having a problem however seeing what this could become and I believe that is b/c I'm having a problem seeing past the hurt within myself and my kids. So yes I feel like I am contridicting myself. I know what I need to do, I just need to continue practicing it and get better at it.
I thank you for what you have posted and I will write more as I process this throughout the day. I started this post and have been interrupted multiple times so I will write more later.
Thank you so much GH!!!
M-35 going on 15 D-8 S- 3 yrs ex-CL(w)- 30
D over one year
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. Douglas Adams "Just Be"
I write what comes to mind in response to what I read. I don't know it all, not even close. I just hope I can make you think as much as my "mentors" in DB made me thing when this whole thing started for me almost a year ago.
I am glad you are making progress with your anger issues. I struggle with that daily, even now when things could not be better. It's a VERY hard pattern to break and it has SO much more to do with your insides than with whatever the sitch is on the outside.
This was posted to Sven's thread but I wanted to preserve it so I am going to paste it here...but I replied on his...er...well, maybe I'll paste my reply here too. Damn this is complicated!
Quote: GH,
Lol, you are getting as cranky as me In truth, a very big part of your success comes from your willingness to look for the most you can get out of a post, even if you disagree with it at the time. In those cases, sometimes you might find yourself changing your mind, in other cases not. But, you still took as much as possible from the posts. Indeed, when something makes you uncomfortable or angry in a post, you seem to take special care to absorb it and give it careful consideration. Sure, at times you get defensive (who doesn't), but you have always come right back to the subject matter that made you defensive and worked through it, rather than letting the initial defensive reaction be a barrier to progress.
A lot of folks on the boards are stuck in their comfort zone, though the zone often doesn't look too comfy. Let's see. We can identify:
the long suffering righteous spouse zone the I'm-so-healthy-admire-me-don't-notice-my-weaknesses zone the victim zone the poor-me-I'll-never-trust-or-love-anyone-again zone the no-one-else-gets-my-sitch zone the I'm-right-WAS-is-wrong zone the oh-my-the-depth-of-my-love-can-only-be-proven-by-total-self-sacrifice-and-martyrdom-on-my-part zone the OP-is-the-evil-source-of-my-problems zone the S-is-crazy-I-am-too-wonderful-for-words zone ...or its close relative... the S-is-crazy-why-doesn't-my-condescending-pity-for-S-bring-S-home zone. the I-can't-base-my-decisions-on-how-to-take-care-of-my-own-happiness-based-on-what-is-actually-happening-because-that-would-mean-it-is-actually-happening zone AKA the ostrich-head-in-sand zone the I-can't-be-happy-without-S zone the passive-aggressive-what-a-wonderful-spouse-I-am-I-will-hurt-you-in-a-thousand-invisible-ways-to-extract-my-revenge zone the when-will-S-finally-rescue-me zone and, finally, the nearly universal and usually combined with other zones, the I-can't-detach-to-give-S-space-to-grow-and-learn-what-S-wants-for him/herself-because-I-am-too-needy-and-scared-although-I-say-it-is-because-I-can't-love-S-and-be-detached zone
Your secret to success, GH, is that you were NOT all about staying in your comfort zone. It is for that reason that you profited by being shaken up a bit now and then So, if you want to figure out where your posts will be most profitable for others, look for those people who actually get shaken up and challenge you and themselves, rather than those that elicit only defensive, polite, or placating reactions.
BTW, it is great to see you flourishing. We were down your way over TG and caught the "chilly" weather.
Best, Oldtimer
Response:
While I don't really like to make light of people because I KNOW the pain they feel but I also know it took getting my a$$ kicked by NYS, Frank, SS, you and others before I really started DOING something about my sitch other than wallowing in it, and trust me, I was REALLY good at wallowing!
Thanks for the compliments. As I said earlier today, I owe a lot of my success to you and your "pushing me out of my comfort zone." Even when you were the biggest b!tch in the world, as I thought you were at times (right before I realized you were right, lol), you ALWAYS helped move forward and would never settle for me being stagnant.
You knew what I needed in my sitch LONG before I did and your patience with me will never go unnoticed.
Quote: Isn't there a fine line between being direct and being needy? This part confuses me. I don't know exactly how to be direct with my W. She knows where I stand and I just otld her the other day that this is something she wants and she has to do it.
In the past I would beg, plead and borrow to get what I needed out of her. She has recognized that and tells me that she doesn't want to hurt me anymore.
Yes and no. I think being direct and being needy are VERY different, and it's all in the delivery.
Being direct is all about CLEARLY stating what YOU want and NOT what you expect. It's not about CONTINUING to beg, plead, ect. to get what you NEED. Learning to take care of your NEEDS yourself is key in this. Don't expect her to do that for you, in any way. She has to give you what you need, you can't try to take it.
Don't beg, plead or borrow, simply, and singularly, state what you want and leave it at that.
Quote: The focus has become more about me and less about her but, my focus can be on her and the OM all too often. Not directly to her, but subconsciously.
I get the "lurking OM" syndrome but you just have to more and more force these thoughts from your head.
Quote: My issue becomes whether or not it is worth the wait. Like you stated. Why would I want to focus my attention on someone who doesn't want me? What good does it do me to keep hanging on? I would love for reconciliation, but I don't see it happening.
Ok, and how does this make you different from her? She doesn't see it happening either.
You keep hanging on because you WANT THIS. You keep hanging on because you love her. You keep hanging on because you believe what's possible is worth the fight. Is it? I think so.
You have to learn to be more positive. I know that's a stretch but if indeed, you're going to give up, do it from a position of power. Decide it's really what you want and then don't regret it. If it's truly what's best for you, the go, but do it with strength and conviction.
If you think the right thing to do is to stay and fight for this marriage, then do THAT with the same strength and conviction. Either way, you get to be the man who starts living up to his potential and makes strides to become better.
Wow!!! Great repost there!!!! I've got to mull over it....
I know I've fallen into some of those categories at one time or another. Although right now I'm the crazy-desperately-trying-to-piece-spouse-riding-the-insane-roller-coaster-of-ups-and-downs.
But I do thank you and all the others posting on this thread for sharing great information. Congratulations to you on your successful piecing.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
