Well, speaking of male mammals, hoding onto themselves means they are not dependant on females. That would mean no fear of abandonment.
I don’t know that these two go hand in hand. I do not think depending on females necessarily means having a fear of abandonment. In fact, that would be closer to the ideal, and what I understand interdependency should be all about.
Give her things to do, that make her a team player. Tell her explicitly what you want from her. Besides sex. Appreciate it when she does them. Realize she does it becasue she wants to be a part of your team.
This past weekend was my birthday (I spent it cleaning the carpets in the house, though the whole family went out for dinner Sunday night). W and the kids took off Saturday afternoon while I was in the thick of tackling the steam cleaner. The girls wanted to find something for my birthday present, but couldn’t come up with anything, so W just came out and asked me what I wanted. I mentioned a few minor personal items, but then said I was trying to save up for a new digital SLR camera. I had been feeling bad about not having as many good pictures of the kids when they were small. The recent trip to Hawaii resulted in some good, some bad shots. As much as it costs to go on trips, it was worth it to get a decent camera. She then called around and decided to try and buy a new camera for me, about $750. I was rather surprised she wanted to spend this money, since she had recently been arguing over money (the van title, house down payment, etc.)
So I took this as a positive sign of wanting to be a team player, and took her up on her offer. I ordered the camera on-line this week and also bought some lenses to go with it.
Cobra! You have allready done that. It was the first thing you did before the crucible and the turnaround…..
As I stated on Mojo’s thread, IMO, there are two levels to the alpha male. The lower level is more power based - setting boundaries and enacting consequences. I see that as a prerequisite to the higher level – showing the compassionate, caring, slightly aloof but nurturing side. I have been able to implement the lower lever, but do not feel I have truly met the requirements of alpha male on the upper level.
Speaking for myself... I dont. Unequivocally. Ive got a great one allready All I do want is a woman who can leave me alone, and hold onto herself, during the times when I am am working on me and in my cave. Undoubtedly that happens when she needed me the most too. Thats why the compulsive testing for a strong man. Thats why insecurities crash. Thats why differentiation is important.
Blackfoot, I’m going to challenge you on this one. When I say all men want a mother figure (and women want a father figure) you know I don’t mean that literally. But I also don’t think you want a woman who leaves you alone. Sure they need to respect your space when you need it, but you are an avoider, the one-up. Your ex was the pursuer, making her one-down. I’m not sure if she was a fearful or anxious attachment type of person.
Now, since you are an avoider, you have no choice but to pair up with a pursuer. If you date another avoider, the minute you go into your cave, she will walk, because that is her way of avoiding too. This means your relationships will either have a woman pursuing you, or you will need to learn to pursue yourself, to open your universe to more than just pursuing women.
But remember, all avoiders actually want the pursuit. Once the pursuit stops, the reality of abandonment sets in. Isn’t that what happened to you with your ex? Is that why the D was so painful? Knowing that you could have done some things to pursue on your part seems to have been a source of regret for you. Don’t go back into that pit.
I see great advantage to this alpha male philosophy, but I am also wondering whether this is your way of justifying the avoidance of intimacy. Pursuit and wanting are weak. Differentiation and a certain distance are strong. You are self reliant, self made, no help from your family, no safety net like others may have had. You were out there on your own and had to survive. Be tough….. sounds a little like that avoider wife of mine.
Now don’t get me wrong. This is not meant to be an attack in any way, just something to think about.
I dont have any security need from a woman. There is nothing from a security viewpoint that they could provide me with. Neither my safety nor my survival would be affected. I take my desire for value validation too far. I know that. now. Im a 'great catch', but then I always surround myself with 'alpha men' in whatever aspect I think I am lacking in. Thats not a bad thing, its very effective for self improvement, but Oftentime I will even suppress aspects of myself, self deprecate while aggrandizing the OP, just to see how the woman reacts. Then I judge her perspective abilities and control. when they are not satisfactory, <poof>. I test to much.
I think both you and I are confident in our abilities. We have each proven ourselves and do not need validation from others to confirm that. I think our soft spot, like everyone here, is in allowing ourselves to be vulnerable and loved. Instead we hold to a fantasy of ideal love and the ideal woman. I think that is why you test so much. It keeps a certain distance between you and the woman. I also think that is why you draw such a hard line on values, why adherence to your values “prevented” you from even considering reconciliation with your ex.
Personally I believe many of us go through a learning experience with our first love. It opens us up to then know ourselves better and grow to take on a second, more mature love. Like Heather, your ex was your first love, right? Even though you knew the psychology of women well, your training ground was really your first marriage. Other people may be lucky enough to date around more at first and endure their first heartbreak before getting married. They learn a little about the compromise required in a relationship, become a little more realistic in their hopes and expectations and settle into a more stable marriage. Then there’s the rest of us here on this board!
I dont think thats why, but what security do you need from your wife? Do you need security, or do you just need to have an external sense of value.
I think it is a realization on my part, after sifting through my anger and fears, that I really want someone to want me, that I want to feel needed and included. I do not think it is not to give me a sense of value. I think I have that. It is to give me the sense of love and closeness I have always wanted, that I have always hoped for. I suppose it is in part chasing the dream as a child of escaping from the fighting in the home.
I do think I need to move in your direction in requiring more awareness from a woman, instead of just doing what they unconsciously react too. I would like awareness, but its impossible to teach untill someone wants to learn it.
I’m a little confused with this statement. Are you saying you are not ready to learn what you think you need to learn? Why?
