I feel she makes demands at strategic moments, knowing the alternatives are limited. That feels like manipulation. I call her out on it and confront why she is doing so
It probably is. She wants to know how you will react. They way you are currently is good IMO. Her button pushing, will most likely lessen over time, but it most likely will never go away. That is slightly wearing, but actually a good thing.
she still seems to be wrestling with her insecurities, one of which is accepting strength, support and guidance from a male. The very thing that gives most women comfort is what she hates.
Nod I agree completely. I personally believe they hate it because it has so much power over them. If its bben used against her to her detriment in the past of course she will resist. They distrust it because of past experiences. Then when they surrender they end up disappointed some way. Thats partly their fault, for losing themselves in the R, but it is how they are made. She will if you consistantly present a firm boundary that is not hurtful to her. If you have good intentions, and you realize this, it enables you to be considerate, understanding, kind in your approach. Its a test. Pass it with a smile. It is about her fear.
To ask her to just become a woman and accept the strength I can offer is to put WAAAY too much pressure on her Yep. Agreed again. Can you change her response to her fear --without intellectually verbalizing it to her? That is real communication.
She would be quite happy if I just learned to suck everything up, Mostly yes, but not at the expense of your needs. control my anxiety yes and let her do what she wants. NO NO NO definitely not. When she is disrespectful to you as a man or a Husband it is not what she wants you to allow. That would be optimal for her. But it ain’t gonna happen Thank GOD.
I agree she wants to eliminate it, but only because I make it a thorn in her side and not because she desires strength from me to then give comfort to her
Well of course its a thorn in her side. But try assuming the good. She wants you to eliminate it because she wants a strong confidant H. Who will be able to support and comfort her. It is helpful, although the tact she tacks is not. That is what you can focus on. Her tactics. How She TREATS You. Which come from your Boundaries and telling even if it requires confrontation. Its exactly what she does want to know, ane will generate feelings of respect in her.
holding onto yourself” as Schnarch proposes does anything to really purge the issue either
Well, speaking of male mammals, hoding onto themselves means they are not dependant on females. That would mean no fear of abandonment. So that is your issue to purge via courage. You are a great H. Your a good provider, hard working, your care about your children, you desire a good R with your W. You have value. Find it in yourself, and your W will see it too.
If she does compromise, I get another message, one of caring and a willingness to be a “team” player. That comforts me. Give her things to do, that make her a team player. Tell her explicitly what you want from her. Besides sex. Appreciate it when she does them. Realize she does it becasue she wants to be a part of your team.
Plus I think she is slowly coming to understand my position a little better and not pushing to always “win yes and possible she is respecting that you are not going to capitulate and that your boundaries are real, however you are demonstrating that fact.
the idea of putting forth an attractive, non-supplicating image to her. That is an objective of mine, but at this time, I think it may still be too early in recovery Cobra! You have allready done that. It was the first thing you did before the crucible and the turnaround. When you started fighting with your wife instead of withdrawing in resentment. When you filed for D and made a clear statement that you require specific things from your M, even when you put her in Jail, those are all extreme forms of boundaries. There was no supplication of placation in any of that. Though extreme and hopefully not repeated, the state your M was in required some extreme action on your part. You allready started. and she pretty much immediately agreed to resuming a sex life with you too though it may not be very emotional or perfect.
but that was a means to gain acceptance from others. He needed the form of attachment o make him whole. Inside he was apparently very weak and once his wife pull back on her support and told him to stand on his own, he collapsed.
This is precisely where Schnarch fails. His inability is not something he could address by simply holding on to himself. I believe he wanted to do everything he could to save his marriage. MWD says a marriage requires to whole people. He had the option to suck it up with his wife there or on his own. He didnt do it with her there. He wanted to hang onto his wife because he needed her. She didnt want a child, she wanted a man she could have children with. If he wanted to save his marriage he would have quit working on the R- by grasping at something he had no control over, and started working on himself. When a man is allready needy and placating, its gonna be impossible for him when abandonment and loss is kicking his ass.
I understand what you are saying here, but I am now coming around to the understanding that we men all want a mother figure to take care of us. Speaking for myself... I dont. Unequivocally. Ive got a great one allready All I do want is a woman who can leave me alone, and hold onto herself, during the times when I am am working on me and in my cave. Undoubtedly that happens when she needed me the most too. Thats why the compulsive testing for a strong man. Thats why insecurities crash. Thats why differentiation is important.
Why is that model so attractive to women? Because it is the ideal model of safety that girls want from a father. So what is wrong with men admitting to the same need for security from their partner? I dont think thats why, but what security do you need from your wife? Do you need security, or do you just need to have an external sense of value. I dont have any security need from a woman. There is nothing from a security viewpoint that they could provide me with. Neither my safety nor my survival would be affected. I take my desire for value validation too far. I know that. now. Im a 'great catch', but then I always surround myself with 'alpha men' in whatever aspect I think I am lacking in. Thats not a bad thing, its very effective for self improvement, but Oftentime I will even suppress aspects of myself, self deprecate while aggrandizing the OP, just to see how the woman reacts. Then I judge her perspective abilities and control. when they are not satisfactory, <poof>. I test to much.
As far as the Nop's, Im not going to dissect there sitch anymore then I allready have. I really respect their accomplishment and their knowledge. I learn something everytime they post. You have put your W into a crucible too, and she has responded. Its not quick. Its not easy. It has no end. Its not a destination to reach.
As Johnson calls it in her book, the “dragon” is too overwhelming and the trauma victim needs as much help and support to create the building blocks (the security to overcome the fear) to then grow into an alpha male type. Do you see my point? I do agree that true masculine maturity is a process that does require and is a result of growth and experience. For example men and women mistake emotionally withdrawn and unavailable men for the truly attractive emotionally imperturbable. If the man is incapable of doing this while he is with the woman, she is doing him a favor by leaving him and forcing him to deal with it on his own. She is not in most cases doing herself a favor. It sure helps with biological diversity though. Most women would be better serving themselves and their M, by actively and consciously deciding to seperate from their H to see if he will change. But they need that security so its much rarer to see a woman seperate without someone in the wings then it is a man. Thats what my experience has seen. I do see your point, and dont disaree in the sense of a committed R/M. I do know what women respond to and desire though. and thats not it. I do think I need to move in your direction in requiring more awareness from a woman, instead of just doing what they unconsciously react too. I would like awareness, but its impossible to teach untill someone wants to learn it. I havent read Gray, blew thru Gottmans stuff. As a Man I really appreciate Dr. Harley, and Hendrix conscious loving concepts. The little I comprehend women, I really like MWD approach aand of course Deida's. I enjoy Schnarch from a clinical healthy pysch approach. I firmly believe that emotional equivalents attract one another. His approach also doesnt live much room for misinterpretation or tactical type implementation and the resultant incongruence.
Once you have a womans attention, and respect, in most cases they will assume the position of R monitor and caretaker. Play your part, and let her assume hers.
