Cobra

I thought that last post to Cac was good.
I wanted to post to you about something I (still) notice.
Its about what I see as your struggle with 'equality'. You seem to be struggling with apparent discrepancies between Schnarch, and needing to be validated.

Im struggling with how to phrase this, but your terminology seems to be from a position of powerlessness, and negativity, using words like manipulation and forcing her, etc.

Let me see if I can get this across.

The ideas of Blackfoot come into play too since they are essentially cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) ideas.

first thanks but I wasnt that educated when I was younger. originally it was just a matter of seeing/doing what worked, regardless of the reason or my FOO and feelings. MWD says -paraphrase-do what works, does it matter why?

For example I know many good scuba instructors (behaviour modification). They dont have any awarness of the different types of intelligence or learning patterns, concepts of teaching styles they just copy what they were taught to do and works in most cases for most people. They may not be the phenomenal instructor I am and have success with some of the more extreme cases, but they are still effective. (obviously Im much better kinetically then literarily.... nah, it must be you, since we all keep saying the same thing to you. )

you said I cannot see the day that I will be comfortable feeling excluded from important decisions or having those I care about do their own thing without me. The “attack” is not the issue. So when I say my wife has the power to stop the cycle by providing me with validation, this is what I mean. Yes, it is manipulation of sort, but your fast approaching decision to leave the marriage is no less a form of manipulation.

the way you phrase this you are giving your wife all the power. Instead of having your boundaries, and giving her Choices
I.E.... Please do this, or This is what I want from you.... asserting your requirement and right, to have a say making decisions, you see it as manipulation. By thinking of it as manipulation, you are taking responsibility for her actions (I can make her do something she doesnt want to) and essentially not giving her a choice. Thats not your job.
Manipulation is possible. There are tactics that you can take, but if you see your desires and boundaries as tactics they WILL Fail long term scenario. There is no manipulation in a boundary. It shows who and what you are, it demonstrates personal strength and power, and lack of fear of the outcome, which a woman does want to see from a man so she can surrender to him.
That is different then what you want from her. That is essentially my disagreement with how I see you handle things. Your not trying to give her what she wants, your trying to force a situation of 'equality' where she soothes you and you soothe her. That forces her to be unfeminine. You can accomplish that, but you will kill her desire. Thats not going to help you accomplish your goal-- A mutually fulfilling sexual M.


Essay 20 by David Deida 'Dont Suggest that a Woman Fix Her Own Emotional Problem' ( I read his book 2 weeks ago --its most excellent dude ) tackles this subject. I really recommend you get it, Id love to find a forum or discuss it with you some other way.

When you soothe yourself via Schnarch, you are tackling you own insecurities and demonstrating to her, what she wants to receive. When you are able to soothe yourself, and as you put it and I agree with you, put your needs first- even be 'selfish' then she will want to support you. (oh yeah I read 'UltraMarathon Man' too, I thought it was a good demonstration of what David Deida speaks about.)
Whatever your insecurity is she knows and wants to eliminate. How she does it is not always.... comfortable for us. Using Radical Honesty and telling her how you will and wont be treated will be using boundaries to encourage her to do it in a more ...palatable for you -fashion.


Besides myself, who has the greatest influence on this? Yep, my wife. If she can hear me, validate me and compromise, then I will IMMEDIATELY feel better. I do not need to go cool off for a few hours. For me, cooling off does nothing. It just delays the issue. I stuff it into my resentment box until it comes up later. Validating me purges the issue entirely

Validating you does feel good. WOA. <insert warm fuzzy>
It is a healthy thing for her to learn and a respectful way for her to handle it. It does not 'purge the issue' IMO, becasue it still gives her the power over your emotional state. Witholding it changes your emotional state. They do not want that power. Thats why they 'test' and check to see if they have it.

I can have a sense of security in giving my wife comfort, knowing that she will give me comfort. I have a fear that she will withhold comfort if I withhold, and vice versa. I fear the fighting and anxiety which that could lead to, so I will continue to give comfort and support.

Why do you fear the fighting? Havent you noticed that after you fight there is a greater intimacy? That a compromise is the result? Can you learn to have arguments, without lossing control of your emotions, frustration anger? If you can see that it is a opportunity instead of a loss of control and power, it will change your whole perspective on fearing conflict.
That happens by having the courage to have conflict and express your self.( i.e. corris recent posts)

Personally I really enjoy conflict. I may even use it a little too much. That being said, I do understand getting worn out from the 'testing' and it growing wearisome. for example, I do not, will not 'compete' for a female.

I most certainly will not 'fight for' my wife, (should that happen) ever again. I dont regret having tried, I learned so much about myself and women thru the process. Maybe thats a flawed viewpoint, and maybe thats 'too differentiated'. Shrug. My only regret is losing control of my emotions outburst/ actions.

Youve made a lot a progress in the last year cobra and your not sacrificing your integrity. I think just a few subtle adjustments in your outlook on things such as not expecting her to act in a masculine manner, and not seeing healthy pysch (male or female) as some dark sinister sneaky force will pay some dividends.
I dont disagree that you should require validation. I do think you should stop trying to 'fix her' and expect her to see, act and respond to situations like you do. If she breaches a boundary of yours, it is going to cause a feeling. You should do something about it. If she leaves you, (or when she threatens) it will (can) cause an emotional loss. Thats not her problem to fix, anymore then your grief is the responsibility of a loved one who dies, nor necessarily a breach of your boundary. It just hurts, and means your human.