Good to hear from you on this. I figured you and others were avoiding this thread since it sounded like a manipulation scheme. I do not concern myself with that because in my mind anything and everything we do can be construed to be some level of manipulation. It is rare that we ever do anything without truly expecting anything in return. The justifications you mention are really my attempt to kick this whole problem of being stuck in a relationship out of the theoretical and into reality. There are plenty of methods, but I have seen few success stories. That tells me something is not working…..
The NotAtlDave exercise sounds like mirroring to me. It is what you learn in IMAGO, and W and I have tried it before. The problem then was that it did not require any sincerity. W said lots of things, but meant few of them. Her actions spoke louder than words and I began to realize she was just placating me. For mirroring to work, there needs to be a certain level of commitment to your words.
The issue I have is not the disagreement with my ideas, but the lack of willingness to compromise. If W compromises, then I can accept the fact that she does not totally agree with me, as I don’t totally agree with her. But compromising means we are acknowledging one another and working together as a team. Not compromising means (to me) that the team concept is not even recognized.
My whole idea of forced compromise came about with Lil’s question to me about shame. I knew shame was not a major core issue with me (it was a one time in my past), but I did not know what was holding me back. The adult attachment site made me realize that what I want is to be loved, just as everyone else. Furthermore, having that love makes me feel whole, not having it makes me feel hollow and longing for someone. It is just another way of looking at codependency. But I have always felt that a true sole-mate type of relationship involves a certain amount of codependency. I think Willard Harley has it right in his criticism of the codependency movement.
In fact, codependency does not ever need to be a problem. Imagine two people who are very codependent. If they support and stand by each other, are always loyal to each other, always affirm this to each other, and are always considerate of the other’s need, is there a problem? Why are we so intent to become independent and non-reliant on someone else? Schnarch says differentiation is necessary to weather those times when stress is too great and we cannot sooth our partner. Those are the times when couples are most vulnerable. But is the key to be always independent or to learn to always be supportive and thinking of the other? If we put our partner first, why should a marriage ever suffer, especially if we get back the same satisfying level of support that we give?
[Maybe there is something to what Lil and others have discussed regarding the feminist movement having pushed too far. Certainly women had a complaint years ago in being over worked, under paid and under appreciated. But have things may have gone too far and caused some women (like my wife) to fear any dependence on a man as something bad?]
If these assumptions have any merit, then maybe part of the problem we are seeing (in the lack of success stories) is that the emphasis is on TOO MUCH independence and differentiation. In fact, isn’t differentiation just a form of self-protection against the vulnerability that comes from our natural longings to be codependent? Isn’t codependence just a longing to be loved? And if that is true, why not give your partner the love s/he wants and have them give back that love to you? Isn’t that the bottom line of what all of us are chasing? Isn’t that where trust begins?
If we can cut out all the facades and defenses and be TRULY honest with our spouse, then I think it all boils down to this. No more need for rituals, scheduling, routines, just an honest deep down admission of what we truly want. Now, the problem is recognizing that this is what we want, admitting it to our partner, and dropping the defenses. Easier said than done.
