I understand that we all have a choice in how we decide to react to our emotions and that the goal is to not react in an unhealthy way. But sometimes the anger is too strong and you just say to yourself “To h*ll with it, I don’t care, I’m going to do as I please!” This is the reality. We all do it. How do you address those times when you enter the red zone?
There is nothing I can do to really settle myself when I am in this condition. I can get away, calm down, etc., but what is it that I REALLY want? I want my wife to hear and acknowledge me. I want to feel included and have some sense of control over the situation, even if it is in compromising on a decision. What I do not want is to be shut out.
Besides myself, who has the greatest influence on this? Yep, my wife. If she can hear me, validate me and compromise, then I will IMMEDIATELY feel better. I do not need to go cool off for a few hours. For me, cooling off does nothing. It just delays the issue. I stuff it into my resentment box until it comes up later. Validating me purges the issue entirely. Again, who has the biggest influence on this, besides me? Is that person willing to work together or not, and isn’t this EXACTLY what the healthiest couples do?
So why are we beating ourselves up to reach some ideal healthy condition (which differs for each of us) when the real answer is much simpler? We want to be heard, acknowledged, and have our needs met. If your spouse will do this (and we do it in return), there is peace. If not there is either fighting or bottled up resentment (which eventually leads to fighting anyway).
One more thing just to clarify what I am trying to say. I do not believe this “manipulation” is a good state to be in permanently. I am saying that there is a certain fairness to soothing one another. I can accept the fact that my wife is manipulating me to meet her needs if I know I can get mine met too. That gets a relationship unstuck and opens the door to deeper long term growth.
MrsNop, you asked whether forcing yourself to act a certain way when you feel another is a form of deception. My answer is that it depends. How do you feel if you do so? Deep down do you feel better, knowing that you did the “right” thing (which means you have to truly know yourself) or do you instead feel more resentment because you have accepted the deflection from your spouse (again!) and have to forego your needs? Is this deception or truthful acknowledgement of your needs? If resentment builds, then the defenses just go higher and the chances for resolution fall. What is the purpose? Do people say here what would you rather be, right or married?
maybe too off topic, but this strikes me (again), and I've seen it in multiple threads: [B]What I see lacking is the buildup to “critical mass,” as Schnarch calls it. These couples do not seem (at least to me) to have come to accept D as a reality, and so have not fully confronted their spouse with the conviction necessary to let that spouse know there is no more room left for negotiation. [/B]
so...you have to be willing to get divorced in order to fix things? add me to the list of people that aren't willing to go there. Its not that I have any moral or religious objection; I just don't see a) what that would fix, and more importantly, b) I can't afford it! I don't' know...maybe its the part of the country where I live, its just so expensive...we'd be homeless if we divorced. IMO, better to live a less than idyllic existence that to be out on the street. never mind what it would do to my kid...
Can someone please tell me what the HECK is "FOO"?!?!?!?!? %$&* message-board abbreviations....arrrghh!!!!
People keep mentioning "Schnarch"...so I went out and bought his book. now I'm wondering if its the right one...but anyway, I bought "passionate marriage". is that the one to read? so far, (only a couple of chapters in), I'm not gettin' it. But that shouldn't be too surprising...
I your wife KNOWS you have no intention of leaving the marriage, and she doesn’t give a flip about whether you are satisfied in the marriage, what exactly are you going to do to turn things around? You can talk, cajoled, entice, seduce, b!tch all you want, but if she draws the line and says she will not do X, whether you like it or not, what will you do? There’s nothing you can do. You are stuck and she controls the cards.
If she does not change, it is because she is more comfortable being stuck, than changing. She is in a comfort zone. Why in the world should she move out of it. Either you need to get comfortable with accepting your situation or get her to change (since you say you will not leave). What other option is there? If you do not want to change your needs, then how long can you hold out before jumping ship? Either you divorce later (after wasting many years in frustration) or you divorce sooner. Do you see any other option?
BTW, FOO stands for Family of Origin. Passionate Marriage by Schnarch is th right book. Read it twice, at least.
Quote: But sometimes the anger is too strong and you just say to yourself “To h*ll with it, I don’t care, I’m going to do as I please!” This is the reality. We all do it. How do you address those times when you enter the red zone?
Cobra, NOP and I have been married almost 30 years. And during that time we have both been incredibly angry and had some loud fights. But, we have never ever called each other names. We have never tried to verbally tear at each other's personhood, nor have we ever attacked each other physically. When we were at the most difficult part of the SSM issue, I did toss a plate of food in the kitchen, but it wasn't aimed toward him. And NOP put a hole in a door in the early years of our marriage.
The strategic withdrawal into another part of the house is an integral part of this with the corollary being that we don't chase after each other when we have to step away. Most marital issues are chronic ones that aren't going to be fully or adequately addressed during one encounter. So, giving it a couple of hours to cool down isn't going to make or break most issues.
So, when we enter the red zone, we put a clamp on our mouths and step away until we can come back to it later.
I am not dismissing the value of cooling off, but it does not SOLVE anything. The issue is still there, only to come up again. Other-validation (as opposed to self-validation), as enmeshed and dysfunctional as it is, can play a role. It can help to immediately break the feedback cycle show in the attachment article. That is valuable in and of itself.
I your wife KNOWS you have no intention of leaving the marriage, and she doesn’t give a flip about whether you are satisfied in the marriage, what exactly are you going to do to turn things around?
I don't know; that's what I'm asking YOU people!!!
Quote: You are stuck and she controls the cards.
um...yeah. isn't that what marriage is all about? you can divorce your wife, but you can't divorce your responsibility.
Quote: ...Either you divorce later (after wasting many years in frustration) or you divorce sooner. Do you see any other option?
yeah, suck it up and deal with it. others have gone far longer in far worse situations.
Quote: Passionate Marriage by Schnarch is th right book. Read it twice, at least.
I did the same for a long time. When we finally got into counseling, I realized how much I was walking on eggshells, how much of my power I was giving away, and that I deserved more out of a marriage, but I did not want to leave the marriage. The thought of D and being separated (part time) from my kids was scary. I think my wife has the same fears, though she has harder time being truthful about it (her focus is on the kids, avoiding the question of what SHE wants). We have been stuck in a power struggle for years, but I think this year we have both come to realize that it is not about power, but about fear.
I don’t think there are any new or undiscovered answers out there. This thread really does not contain anything new, just a slight twist on how to see the same ol’ issues. I hope you can get your wife to read Schnarch too. Dr. Laura wouldn’t hurt either. How do you rate on the adult attachment style questionnaire?
You just made me realize my wife is from a Narcissistic Family big time and may be the cause of alot of my marriage issues. Poor parenting skills, overweight, and super sensative about everything. Her dad has lives on the idea that only the son matters and her mom is a i don't matter person. He forgets her birthday every year and calls to ask her what it is, because he knows its close to his. They flew in to see our son after he was born, in town 5 days saw us/her 3 days. Her brother can do no wrong and sees him alot. We have communication about once every 6 months or when he needs something.
Now is how do you discuss something like this to a super sensitive person?
Now is how do you discuss something like this to a super sensitive person?
That is a tough one because anything and everything you say will be taken as an attack. Also, I’m not sure if “supersensitive” is necessarily the correct description. She might be. But if she is from a narcissistic family, she was probably trained/conditioned to focus on her needs first and others last, if at all. She was not conditioned to be empathic. What seems like sensitivity is really empathy for herself. If like my wife, she is empathic to others or situations to which she can directly relate, because she is reliving the hurt she experience at one time. Otherwise, she could really give a flip about how I feel, justifying with an “all men are dumb emotionally” sort of logic.
One of the hardest things for a therapist to overcome is convincing someone they are playing the victim role and are not as innocent as they would like to think. It is a form of manipulation and control, playing on your guilt. It sounds like your wife has some major self esteem issues due to her upbringing. She probably has a lot of anger around this which she may have stuffed. I think your best bet is to find a counselor and dig into hers and your FOO issues.
Remember, you married her and by theory you should be equally differentiated. If she is ultra “sensitive” then you must be ultra caring or rescuing. That means you’ve got a lot in your past to deal with too.
Quote: How do you rate on the adult attachment style questionnaire?
It said I was "dismissive". whatever that means... I don't know about such questionaires, though. I have a hard time understanding the questions...all so vague and abstract. "do you walk to work, or do you carry your lunch?" um...well...ahh....I don't know!
"Walking on eggshells"...rings a bell. "super-sensitive", too. She complains that I don't communicate, don't let her in, etc, etc. typical guy, right? well, when I have "communicated", the result is her flying off the handle in response. and they wonder why we don't "communicate". rant /off Dr. Laura...hard to take seriously by anyone born after 1960; particularly, anyone female. There may be bits of truth to gleen from it, but the messenger makes it awfully hard to swallow.
%$&* message-board abbreviations....arrrghh!!!!
