I understand, but aren’t they just different sides of the same coin?
He just closes the convo and picks it up the next day? It's just got me a bit confounded, and I admit to having the sense that his deliberate P/A behaviors are backspeak to HP that no woman is gonna control him, not no how, not nowhere.
I don’t think he “just closed” the convo. He tried to make his point for three days by turning off the alarm. Each time HP countered him. How many times should he keep trying before she gets the point? From the POV you and HP are espousing, he is P/A, does not stand up for himself, blah, blah, blah. No offense but I am learning to see this as typical female stereotyping of men (that’s a stereotype too, isn’t it?)
I think he made a wise and very thought out decision. In fact, I think HP should be thanking him for his consideration. I don’t know what he was thinking, but one guess is that he evaluated the situation on a cost/benefit basis and made the obvious choice. What exactly does he have to gain by persisting? Even if he were to express some heartfelt reason why he thought D7 should wake up later (one that might have to do with compassion for his daughter if he remembers being pushed too hard by his parents). It would not really matter since HP is the one stuck at home all day having to deal with his choice. She might not even say anything to him about how it messes up her day, but he will feel it. So that choice is not a good one for him.
One the other hand, what benefit will D7 gain from sleeping in? He knows that D7 is not under any particular stress. He might even realize that he was just reacting to his own FOO experience as a child. If so, then I think he did a great job of “holding onto himself” and not pushing the argument. It was the only logical decision, and one made in consideration of HP. So why is she upset with him? It sounds like he can’t win either way. Do you see this?
And if that is so, what is the purpose in HP’s reaction? Is she really upset that he wants to exert some control, contrary to her ideas? Partly I think (she has a greater need for control than she is willing to admit). Is it because he is not the assertive man she would like? No, I don’t think so either. He did assert himself, but not in a way that was obvious to her and not in a manner that would sweep her off her feet. Yet she determined that SHE would get control of that clock. He knows this too.
Maybe the real answer is that for you Betsey, and HP, P/A people do not allow you to connect with them emotionally. Yes, they twist around to avoid being the bad guy and directly confronting their spouse (which makes them seem “sneaky”), they do not take the lead (which makes them seem “chicken”) and they keep resistance up toward being dominated that it is impossible to make an emotional bond. I see P/A as avoidance and deflection.
But what does this say about the spouse? If you complain that your spouse is P/A, what exactly is it you need? Validation maybe? They are not giving what you want, with is nothing more than to be soothed and comforted, but you deftly turn the sitch around to demonize them. Afterall, their P/A is just so obvious, isn’t it? So much so that the P/A person is aware of it too, but s/he is also aware of the subtle game the “healthy” spouse is playing. To the P/A person, that “healthy” spouse feels an awful lot like some “holier than thou,” some preaching down to the P/A person, someone better than the other. At least the “healthy” spouse is up-front, honest, and owns his/her own stuff. Or do they? Really, which person is the more P/A than the other? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.
…for example, even if he said, "It pisses me off that D7 has to get up when you tell her to get up", it's still revealing a feeling.
Exactly! I think you got this one, Cobra. So why is it that he just can't tell her the fricking rules so she can play the game his way?
Both these statements depend on the same assumption - that from the female perspective, the get-in-touch-with-your-feminine-side philosophy, men should be playing by some set of emotional rules. If a man were to turn off another man’s alarm clock three times in a row, that other man would get a very clear message that the alarm clock should be off. Does it really matter why? Is it written somewhere that men need to expose their deepest heartfelt emotions and reasons for everything they do. Among men, that is never done. Why is it you assume Mr. H, the Marine, should open his heart?
Don’t get me wrong. I have been pushing the idea the emotional bonding is critical to repairing and maintaining relationships. I still think that. Some balance is needed. But the rules that decide where that balance should be made should not be only the woman’s set of rules. I see some of your frustration Betsey in looking at things from the female set of rules. Don’t be so sexist.
Betsey, your irritation with P/A behavior is coming through loud and clear. You might think about who it was in your childhood that ignored you.
