Happy Birthday Corri!

[Underdog]

Cobra--I had not taken Mr. HPs Marine training into account, and you may well be on to something there. I'm going to cogitate a bit while working out in a few minutes. Interesting.

He wants to stay in the dance with you because you bring him the life, the emotion, sense of involvement and love he never had as a child. If he loses you, he loses his touchstone to life. He just can’t find where to balance it all.

Oh, Cobra, I didn't mean the dance of their R/M. Yikes! I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I was referring to their communication dance... and nothing in the bigger picture.

Since most P/As I know are merely attempting to find a back door into revealing how they feel, her H clearly doesn't take the opportunity to slide in any commentary on this... for example, even if he said, "It pisses me off that D7 has to get up when you tell her to get up", it's still revealing a feeling. He just closes the convo and picks it up the next day? It's just got me a bit confounded, and I admit to having the sense that his deliberate P/A behaviors are backspeak to HP that no woman is gonna control him, not no how, not nowhere. That's my gut feeling, and I'm not saying it's right, but HP has been at this control issue for awhile, and I'm wondering why he continues to cast her as the control freak.

And yes, Honey, I do see this in him. Rather than just come out and tell you that you are bugging him, he's just winding around sideways.

Again, Cobra, I'm going to think about your observations, because you've hit a few nails for me.

He has let you decide the rules of the game, now he is having trouble finding the way to play. He should just chuck out those rules entirely and say he is going to play by the rules that his is comfortable with, and let you adapt. Do you see what I mean? It’s a can’t see the forest for the trees sort of thing for him.

Exactly! I think you got this one, Cobra. So why is it that he just can't tell her the fricking rules so she can play the game his way?

Lil--You can't imagine how much I appreciate your post. I sure as heck wish people allowed me to do that sort of thing and it didn't come back to bite me in the a$$. For the record, too bad we're all not married to each other. This would be a hell of a lot easier!

How would your H have reacted if you had simply said nicely, "Please do not turn off her alarm clock. I need her up at 7." (or whatever time)

No reason, no excuse, no negotiating. A clear statement of what you wanted him to do with no acknowledgement of the possible legitimacy of his disregarding your wishes?

Man, I'd love to hear what Honey has to say here. I can tell you how that would have worked for me. It would have triggered all manner of tangential P/A behaviors... let's say that the main issue for me was the alarm clock thing.

Also on the schedule during that given week was my regular bunco night. And the fact that he had to pick up one of our daughters for a doctor appointment the following afternoon. And our other D had a school function Thursday evening where the schedule was tight. He'd have maneuvered all sorts of things that were beyond his control...

His boss would have walked in his office just as he was leaving on the night of my bunco shindig and asked him to produce some urgent documents. For D's doctor appointment, the base would have had to go to lockdown and he wouldn't have been able to get there in time, so could I please take off? And he would have been sidetracked by a customer call which made him run late, which got him stuck in traffic... unable to pick D up for her choir concert. But he'd meet us there.

KWIM? And now that I see this in print, it's making me sick. Because this is how I lived my life for a really long time. Only I didn't see how my perceived control was affecting him, and instead of dealing with me off the top of the deck, he wiggled around it. And if I asked him point blank if there was something I did or said to bother him, he'd then tell me that I assume everything is wrong and to get thicker skin.

All of that would have been necessary because he never had the balls to come right out and say, "Bets, I feel you are controlling me in every aspect of our marriage. I hate it."

And please know I'm not playing connect-the-dot with HP. Her sitch is clearly different. I just know that until I changed how I communicated with him--giving him clear choices in how he interacted with me and not punishing him for not doing things my way--we were absolutely stuck in this horrid dance.

Cobra, you sound a whole lot like my XH. And sadly, I've read your posts and there are quite a few traits in your W that resonate with the old me. It makes me sad, and I pray hard that the 2 of you can find your way to a happy means of communicating your feelings and needs without having to travel the path I took.

For the record, Mr. W. told our D12 this summer that his leaving me was his P/A way of avoiding fighting with me for control. He told her we had never fought and he didn't want her to see us fight, so it was easier for him to just walk away. She logged a few months in IC dealing with her feelings about his truths. She didn't like what he had to say, but I'll say that she was finally happy her dad talked to her about why he really left. She actually knows more about his need to leave than I do. And frankly, that still bothers me.

Whether it is right or wrong, due to blinding from his FOO, projection of his issues, or whatever your want to call it, just be sure he doesn’t start to one day target you as the enemy. I know that my W looked like this to me, and I to her.

Nodding my head. This is exactly how things played out in my house. And it got us a D. A big fat D. I will offer you hope though, friend. I finally *did* choose to grow up and take responsibility for my words and actions. I don't see my XH as a villain or an alien or a jerk. I may not like his choices, but the fact is, he wakes up and does the best job he possibly can. It may not be my best or your best, but it's his best. And I accept this. Life goes on.

More on that later, if you need to go there. I hope I don't have to start a new thread here, so maybe I'll just come over and visit you instead.

For the record, my XH shares 3 out of those 4 initial traits you listed for Mr. HP. I thank you for sharing your observations.

Betsey