Quote: But I bet he understands that with your daughter.
No he doesn't. He pressures the crap out of them not to cry. "What are you crying about?!? Would you STOP!" In his words, he doesn't want to 'deal with it'.
OTOH, he does like to be my knight in shining armor but more along the lines of having me dish out the WOA over something he's made for me (new kitchen cabinets, for example).
Rescue me when I'm upset? Heavens no. He's running too fast in the other direction to even attempt it.
Quote: OTOH, if you’re “friggin fuming on the inside,” he probably knows it.
I'm sure he does; he's a smart fella. I never promised not to get upset with him. I have promised (to myself) to handle conflict in an adult way..no screaming or flying off the handle. And asking him respectfully to do things differently, etc. It still freaks him out, being the nonconfrontational being that he is, but I do what *I* need to do and leave him to his reactions.
Quote: I think Dr. Laura does a good job of explaining all this. But since it is from the male’s POV and rebuts long held, false beliefs by women, it doesn’t seem to get much attention. Sort of like that blond Corri was talking to at that party.
Well that is as clear as mud.
At any rate, I'm not all that interested in why he does it..I just want to continue to create an atmosphere that feels 'safe' to him so that he can open up, if the mood strikes him. Which it does, maybe once a year. He's a guy, after all.
You are cracking my azz UP, woman, and this... almost written stuttering reaction you've got going on... This must be a very, very difficult thing for you to do... the whole 'needing' him thing... I think we've struck gold here.
I'm very proud of you for telling him how good the foot massage felt. 10 giant kudos and one big 'ATTAGIRL!!' That's it. Your getting it!!
Baby steps, honey. You're one brave chick... and if **I** can do it... I know you can. Doesn't mean you won't have heart palpatations along the way... but in taking baby steps with yourself, you'll give him the opportunity to take baby steps as well... and learn as he goes.
(blackfoot) When they start up conversations about what kind of house they want to have, where they want to live,or how many pets, and what kind, which usually leads to number of children the sex and their names...
Ah. Capice.
I was 34 not that long ago. Man, I was dumb. Sorry to hear that. I feel your pain
Yeah. But there's always a bright side...I made it to 38 and now I know everything.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Quote: Yeah. But there's always a bright side...I made it to 38 and now I know everything.
<snort> giggle... <snort again>....<GUFFAW!!!>
Oh, goodness... Burg, you've got quite a sense of humor. <giggle>. You should let it out more, especially since Hairdog isn't hanging out much anymore.
Given that the ladies who hang out here are truly diamonds in the rough... it is hard to imagine such stupidity. But my god, woman, yes, this happens. All the time. You need to get out more, just for the laughs, if nothing else. It's like watching monkeys at the zoo. (If you have any 'poo,' throw it now!) Know what movie that is from?
No he doesn't. He pressures the crap out of them not to cry. "What are you crying about?!? Would you STOP!" In his words, he doesn't want to 'deal with it'.
That’s not good. Has he read anything about how this non-validation affects kids?
OTOH, he does like to be my knight in shining armor but more along the lines of having me dish out the WOA over something he's made for me (new kitchen cabinets, for example).
This is nice, but it doesn’t really count, IMO. There is a world of difference in vulnerability levels between complimenting carpentry work and telling him how much he means to you, how he makes you feel like a woman and all that good stuff.
I am starting to pick up the slightest tinge of deflection in your responses, because I notice that you defend him at times, though at others you bash him. This statement about the cabinets seems to be one of those defenses, almost like you rally to his side when there is a mutually perceived risk of opening the emotional lid. If that lid opens, then you are vulnerable too, so team up and keep it shut. Do you sense this?
At any rate, I'm not all that interested in why he does it..I just want to continue to create an atmosphere that feels 'safe' to him so that he can open up, if the mood strikes him.
Now that was clear as mud. How can you create this atmosphere if you don’t know why, when, where and how he needs you to do it? If you’re not interested in why he feels as he does, why should he be interested in why you feel as you do?
Regarding the Dr. Laura comment, what I meant is that she does a good job in explaining that men truly do have deep emotions and feelings, often much deeper than their wives may suspect. Just because those feelings are not shown does not mean they don’t exist. I get this ALL the time from my wife, that men are just dumb, logical, unempathic creatures. What I am learning to hear is this is that she NEEDS me to be this way because if I am vulnerable, then she might have to become vulnerable. And that is too scary.
Quote: There is a world of difference in vulnerability levels between complimenting carpentry work and telling him how much he means to you, how he makes you feel like a woman and all that good stuff.
I tell him this stuff, but on my own timetable. When it feels safest for me to do so. THAT is what I would like to change.
Quote: This statement about the cabinets seems to be one of those defenses, almost like you rally to his side when there is a mutually perceived risk of opening the emotional lid. If that lid opens, then you are vulnerable too, so team up and keep it shut. Do you sense this
Not at all. I was trying to describe what he is all about and I do that via giving examples. It is true that sometimes I bash him, while others I sing his praises. I'm female, we do that.
Regarding your last paragraph: I do not think that men are dumb, logical, unfeeling creatures. I happen to LOVE men and love the way they are. My H frustrates me with his male-ness but I certainly don't want him acting like a female and being able to sip coffee and 'talk'. Gag.
However, I'm not sure I need to know the ins and outs of his mind in order to make myself 'safe' for him. That's where my approach and yours differs, I think. From the experience of living with him for 12 years I know how to present myself in such a way so that it is easy for him to open up, again, if he feels like it. I am not a manipulator and don't want to control the outcome of his emotions or our interactions. I'm not saying that cause it is the 'healthy' thing to say on this board, it's how I really feel. I've learned from trial and error that he does NOT want me to say much when he's down. He wants me in the room but not talking. I can touch him but not in a patting there-there way. No massages, even. Just firm touch. I've also learned that he likes to open up in bed, in the dark. I'm fine with that.
My point is that I know how to act in a way that greases the intimacy gears. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I'm working on it, like all of us.
I'm not sure that having a big "what do you need from me" discussion would make things better or worse with him. Probably worse. He would see it as HIGHLY unmasculine to have such a convo, though he'd begrudgingly participate. (mrH does what he's told, after all)
Well, all this extraneous information probably means I'm deflecting (or bored, lol) so I'll shutup.
(I was buzzed when wrote this. Missed the continue button again)
HP
Blackfoot, I *never* invalidate what he is saying or feeling. He is irritated that I am there, in his space, while he is upset/disappointed/sad/insert emotion here.
I didnt think you did. Its know it feels lose/lose for you. Well not really. Like Burg said. we just want our cave time. Be out shortly. Stand by with food ready. I think the only way to deal with this is a LRS.
Thanks for the article. I think I'm okay with receiving but I dole out the Inner Honey in miserly little doses, on my own timetable. Sound familiar, blackfoot????
Yep. You cant just stuff yourself with gobs of rich food. You have to take small bites and savor it. Do you get the big bar of 80% cocoa and eat it all at once like a snickers bar. Heck no. Itd be too much to handle.
I swear, when he first started posting I thought, Oh man this is the male version of myself. I have since ....but the essence of him seems familiar to me.
Reaalllly. my essence seems familiar. <trying to stifle, c a n t d o i t>
Never heard it put quite like that before. Where did you say you bartended again? Ill have to think back. LOL. LMAO.
Ok. I know that was inappropriate. I respect your marriage. blah blah. but SERIOUSLY. A guy cant be expected in good conscience to pass up on something like that.seriously. Im gonna regret this. do I get a free pass for inappropriate behavior on my Bday? who cares. Mr. Pot can sock me and require my apologies later.
all funning aside, HP, I was raised by ridiculously independant and self sufficient 'feminists' who rubbed to a nub every man they came across. They taught me sports, (grandma and Great aunt were both pro atheletes) farming, etc. had me doing pushup and situps since I was at least 5, <grandma> show me your muscles. comon flex. I dont know it looks like a mouse to me. How many pushups can you do. can you do 15? <bf> (sleepy in pj's) grandma I just woke up, Im hungry. <grandma> comeon. drop down. let me see if you can do 15. then well have breakfast.
I remember watching them play pinochle as a kid and they would just badger my step dad. I said to him one time, 'they are just trying to get your goat-- why do you let them'. and then I said to my mom and grandma, quit picking on him. they all thought that was funny. Poor guy. He was the only man around. I never looked at him like a father figure or even up to him as a man. I appreciated his fiscal caretaking of me since I wasnt part of 'his family'. He was a nice guy. My mom broke him. My father broke her prior. He was a pr!ck. anyways, I know what your saying. When I first came to this BB, I saw your name and I was like OH Brother. That woman has a lot of confidance. Why dont I just name myself Thors Hammer or something equally phallic sounding? lol I always avoided... no.. bypassed women I encountered that I consider to be like you for LTR's. Firstly cause I had no confidance in there ability to commit, but I have come to realize some women think that about me too. secondly, because they always have a boyfriend or 3. the 3 doesnt bother me. but when its A bf, and I dont think its kosher or karmically correct to .... misapply knowledge.
I stutter step though when they (actually a specific she) say stuff like 'we should hang out' and 'theres no ring on this finger'.
Hopefully that was a baby tooth that got knocked out? <fingers crossed.>
He's a guy, after all. 
lol