I do derail myself a lot simply because I can't keep my yap shut.
You know, I have had a lot of success in staying calm and nicely asking H to stop when he's doing something I find offensive. Rather than get into a drawn out conversation about 'what I need' etc (which would be a "please pull my fingernails out instead" moment for him) I think if I just stayed calm and asked him nicely to stop, he'd do it and then go on to exceed my hopes, in terms of a nice convo. So you are right.
My own frustration seeps in because we've been married 11 years and, in my mind, that is enough time to have acquired some coversational skills. HOWEVER!! I am so up to the task of redirecting him instead of getting nasty myself.
I know you know this....but it is sooooooooo damned hard for me to open up to him. To let him see my grief over my father's death was pretty big. Since the day he asked me to stop, I haven't so much as appeared sad in front of him, even though I am overcome with sadness every single day. It's not that I'm acting out of revenge or resentment; it's more like a kid who touches a hot stove--you don't do it twice, right. And that's not even it, either...it's more like I have utterly lost any inclination to let him see my grief and have buried it instead.
BUT, again, that has as much to do with me as it does with him. He acted like an insensitive jerk but I am still required to let him in.
And once I let him in, I have to find the strength within to continue letting him in, even after he acts like an idjit.
My gosh, woman, do you realize what you are asking of me??
It sounds to me like you would really like to have your H empathize with you in your grief issues. Wouldn’t it feel better knowing you and he are on the same team, and that your grief is his grief, and this is an issue for the both of you, not just you alone? Isn’t there comfort in the fact that you can depend on him to support you?
Schnarch might say this is your issue and you have to deal with it on your own. Your H can be empathic, but he can react as he likes, it is then back on your shoulders to decide whether you want to accept his response or not. Instead, why don’t you and your H talk about what you each want and need from one another, where you each experienced holes in your childhood and what you can each do to help the other as a team member to jointly slay your dragons?
This is where the difference in emotionally focused therapy and Schnarchian differentiation come in – knowing that you are not alone.
Quote: And once I let him in, I have to find the strength within to continue letting him in, even after he acts like an idjit.
My gosh, woman, do you realize what you are asking of me??
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes. I do. It's dam hard, too.
It's time to tackle yourself, honey. You can do it. 'Receiving' from another is sooooo much harder than giving. You are really good at giving. Now get really good at 'receiving,' and just see how Mr. HP responds. I think it will stun the ever living sh!t out of you... and make you wonder what the he!! took you so long to do it.
Oh... and by the way. I've started doing the 'thank you' exercise... I say 'thank you' so much now, they are the two most often spoke words I use. The results are AMAZING.
Would it surprise you guys if I said that the pain from this experience wasn't as bad as the pain I felt when he walked out on me over the holidays?
No. Not at all. On the former its not your fault perse, nor is their anything you feel or know that you can do about it. Its a lost dream out of your control. The latter, deep down, we feel we must have had a part to play in why it happened.
over here on Corri/Blackie's thread You did that just to annoy me. I know it. It didnt work. ... ... damn women. B comes before C. and its my thread.(hijackers welcome)
HP
AND he bristles if I try to do it to him, when he's down about something. Oh man, them's fighting words to him. LOL Perhaps blackfoot can enlighten me as to why a man would NOT want to be comforted when they're down
I can only conjecture about your H. He was a marine sniper. There isnt a whole lot of warm fuzzy support type reinforcement used, when they are in a bad situation. In general I think its a nurture issue.
Personally I dont want to hear, comments like 'everything's ok.' or 'dont worry about it.' when things are bad. its not the truth and conflicts with the reality of the situation and the action that needs to be taken. The only comment I can come up with that would be appreciated is 'Well be ok, honey.' or ' I know your working on it' otherwise the same thing can be said with her actions. (which by the way is exactly what Mojo did in her most recent scenario.)
Its pretty much a lose/lose situation for the woman (the ones dealing with me atanyrate.) I dont want repeated help or suggestions (nagging) either. Basically I just expect her to --standbye untill further notice. LOL. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I think this vacumn puts women into a tailspin. or leaves them flailing. something like that. Ive noticed recently...well known it... but anyways... that women love to talk about ...the future, what ifs, plans, etc. Infatuated people and people in new R's, especially do this. dream and dream and dream, even if it has no basis in reality. Look at dialogue between infidels.
back to what women want... They want to know what you intend and where you are going, even when your --there allready-- so to speak. They want to feel that you know what's going on, have a plan, that everything is going to be ok. reminds me of a song, Billy Joel's Tell her about it.(please if Im mistaken, correct me. I just see the positive response, to this scenario) When things are amuck, I cant/wont do that. If I get pestered enough to drag something up, its more like .... 'Im working on it' (cant she see that? sheesh, there's a storm and Im busy trying to batten down the hatches. feel free to join in, or pipe down, but dont keep tugging on my sleeve, saying 'whats gonna happen.' Im not nostradamus.) I wont make promises I cant keep. it sure would be nice if they just trusted us, based on our past performance, eh burgbud?
In the nebulous associations I have with women now, Ive allready mentioned to Karen, that I wont do/use rapport. I think its dishonest. So when they start this kind of thing up, invariable I say 'Oh, we're playing lets pretend now'. anyways, I dont know how we got there. hopefully some other guys will say how they feel about receiving comfort.
Oh yeah. I dont remember why, but I have thought you were blonde since ....Lils thread on what actor we look like?. I have to say it really messed with my beliefs on HD/LD. You -as a blonde- were an incredible annoying exception to my tidy niches. Now youve gone and rectified it and I thank you very much for that. Man I feel better. all is right in my world again.
Quote: Personally I dont want to hear, comments like 'everything's ok.' or 'dont worry about it.' when things are bad. its not the truth and conflicts with the reality of the situation and the action that needs to be taken.
I'm totally with you on this. I hate it when something really catastrophic is happening and someone is saying "everything's going to be all right." Hell, lots of times everything is NOT all right. YEARS and YEARS down the road, we may look back at these times and see that everything did work out for the best, but at the time that it's happening (fire, flood, famine, trip to the ER) is not the time bo blow fake sunshine up my dress.
A better way to blow the sunshine is a statement closer to "whatever happens, we can get through it." More down to earth and acknowledges our own strength and need to act.
it sure would be nice if they just trusted us, based on our past performance, eh burgbud?
No flippin' doubt. "Remember last week when I was brilliant? Now this week I'm an idiot? Can I sit down and take a second to process the whirlwind of my incompetence?"
Let's see...you can capitalize "Billy Joel" but not Burgbud? You are seriously messed up. No wonder women like you.
As for dealing with times when things are bad, I've had good success with the women in my life lately by just saying, "I'm in my cave about it." They seem to understand what that means and they say, "Well, I'm here if you want to talk about it later" and we all forge ahead.
If a woman was looking for reassurance during an active crisis...that just doesn't work. Sometimes you've gotta put your head down and charge forward and people who are causing distractions get yelled at and then ignored. I'll take the hit for my poor behavior after the crisis is resolved.
I don't get this: In the nebulous associations I have with women now, Ive allready mentioned to Karen, that I wont do/use rapport. I think its dishonest. So when they start this kind of thing up, invariable I say 'Oh, we're playing lets pretend now'. anyways, I dont know how we got there. hopefully some other guys will say how they feel about receiving comfort.
What sort of a thing would a woman say that would get that response from you?
P.S. Happy birthday. 34? I was 34 not that long ago. Man, I was dumb.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Cobra, You lost me on your last post. Of course I would want him to support me but he really doesn't. What I need is a way to gently guide him towards ways to support me, whilst managing to keep control of myself. Communicating with my H is a supremely frustrating exercise, in ALL areas not just support or intimacy, so when I am under emotional stress I can just barely hang in there with it. However, I can do it. I just haven't yet.
Corri, thank you for the article. I will read it as soon as I have time. Today has been an incredibly insane day. I've done a hundred crafts with the kids and been an all around supermom and I'm fcukin exhausted. LOL I can say that to you but in a play group, notsomuch. hahaaaa
Blackfoot, I *never* invalidate what he is saying or feeling. He is irritated that I am there, in his space, while he is upset/disappointed/sad/insert emotion here. I've tried saying comforting things (we'll get through it); I've tried no words and physical touch (rubbing shoulders); I've tried asking if there's anything I can do. It is all pretty much met with the same response which is: I appreciate what you're trying to do but you need to get the #$*& away from me.
So from all this talk, you all no doubt get the picture that MrH and I love each other to pieces but still haven't got the hang of this intimacy thing, though we are getting better at it.
I'm off to read about receiving. Corri, I will say up front--and then check back in with you--that I'm actually quite good at receiving. Cripes, for the first 3 years of my marriage it's all I *did*. Learning how to give on a regular basis has been the 'work' that I've done. Giving to my kids is easy...they're loud and demanding, right...but giving to him is another story. It didn't even occur to me for the longest time and even now I have to make conscious efforts to give of MYSELF to him.
It actually reminded me much more of MrH than myself, so do with that what you will.
I have never had a problem accepting a gift and don't remember ever thinking, Oh great now I've gotta get *them* something, etc etc, something that absolutely besieges H. He is a tit for tat person and always thinks there's some sneaky strings tied to everything. I am much more apt to take it at face value. I am also pretty good at receiving compliments, though not perfect. I too battle the urge to downplay whatever has just been said. Mostly with self deprecating humor. Most of the time, though, I just say Hey thanks!
The 10 dollar exercise, well, I don't know how I'd do with that one. Certainly not the perfect ideal as laid out by Ms. Beck of saying "I don't care what happens" but I would probably laugh and say Aw man! if the hoity toity lawyer picked it up instead of getting in a tizzy about it.
Thanks for the article. I think I'm okay with receiving but I dole out the Inner Honey in miserly little doses, on my own timetable.
Sound familiar, blackfoot????
I swear, when he first started posting I thought, Oh man this is the male version of myself. I have since questioned that because of differences in our talents/confidence (he is much more so than I) and so on but the essence of him seems familiar to me.
Quote: Thanks for the article. I think I'm okay with receiving but I dole out the Inner Honey in miserly little doses, on my own timetable.
Ah, yes, but this is the greatest of risks. For to open yourself to another makes you completely vulnerable to how they will respond to you... and they have complete autonomy on how they decide to do that. You must receive gracefully what they give.... or not (and the risk of them NOT... ewh. Big potential ouchy there).
So with the $10 exercise... just replace the $10 with a bit of locked away HP... now you might view the article in a slightly different way.
Far easier to stay behind the walls, in my personal experience... but much less rewarding.
HOWEVER!! I am so up to the task of redirecting him instead of getting nasty myself.
