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Laura Doyle has many valid points. If you read her background story, you will notice that she had a husband who had uncompromising boundaries.
Ive read a couple passages where she says to engage in actions that are incongruent and to diminish or hide the intellectual abilities of the woman. I find that distasteful.

In one of my social circles I was surrounded by women who implemented these attributes, to use on men for there personal gain. This book in particular was one they talked about. It was a mental recollection of that, that caused my remark more then anything.

The men apparently needed it or felt it was true, and undoubtedly received great pleasure from it. All men 'need it' I just happen to think it comes when its earned. If you have earned it, and your woman still refuses to give it, its her problem not yours. It is completely in your power, to determine that.

Ive never met a woman who gave it authentically, that it didnt have to be 'wrestled' from.

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hey corri

I don't know about these statements you've made here. Just talking outloud, really...

ditto. none of my comments is a reflection on your marriages viability, your H or you. it was just a comment on the catalyst. the final straw.

There are times when the man just has to get over himself and emote feeling with his W, and being 'a man'(and saying you just aren't wired like a woman) isn't a flipping excuse. It's not a matter of being a man or a woman. It's a matter of human empathy and compassion, and basic respect for your fellow being... it goes beyond wife and husband.

empathy and compassion are easy when you are not enmeshed in the situation. everyone here does it. we all fail at it here in this place too... but when it happens as a result of crashing insecurities.... then its simply self absorbed reactions and is because of H and W. its directly because of, not beyond it at all.
OP providing comfort on the other hand are.
we are wired differant. Its not an excuse its reality.

using UD example, where the source of pain was obviously and understandably affecting them both, lets say her H understands on some level, that being needy, whiney, crying, or looking for his W to soothe his insecurity is not an option. So he internalizes and does as best he can to soothe himself. Its a full time job doing that, and now she is doing what he will not allow himself to do, and expecting him to soothe her. He is overloaded allready, but handling it (trying) on his own.
<internal voice> Im handling my crap.
<external voice> handle your issues. quit crying. thats not going to solve anything.

In men that are not prone to placating and supplicating, I find that this sort of indifferant/differentiated/selfish/unsupportive comments are common. attractors become detractors.
They are remembered FOREVER, by the woman. They cause her pain. Do you know that I have no recollection of the things I said to x when I berated her on her bday? I know it was unacceptable, but as for specifics.... The first straw breaker instance I can recollect with effort, because it was deliberate. On her bday it was just emotional spew.

by contrast the supplicating and placating cause a general ick factor and change love from desire to the same sort of love you feel for a puppy. Untill it pees on your turkish rug. and you yell at it --and it pees again. Whos fault is it? the yeller or the pee'er?


I believe UD, when she says her H was comtemptuous. I know that my cold indifferance to x's seeking of validation and my answering her with a truthful but unfeeling remark crushed her. I knew it right after I did it. and she pleaded for validation again. I was so angry I would not give her what she wanted. so I used truth.

Your H was so alpha I feel like the taco bell chihauha in comparison. Yo quiero taco bell. LOL. sheesh what a mental image. I have no doubt his indifferance was frequent and hurtfull amongst other things.

My point was, these instances are going to occur. There is no avoiding them. Ive thought long and hard about it, and the aspects that make a man attractive initially are the same ones that will instigate this sort of thing.

There are times when the man just has to get over himself and emote feeling with his W, and being 'a man'

What if he busy dealing with his issues and doesnt have the resources for her problems too? Effectively what you are saying is ... I need you- get over yourself- and be here for me. I understand.

Put another way, as long as the man isnt insecure, your insecurites will never crash into his.
Ok. gotcha. Problem solved.


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Hi Corri... It sounds like you are delighting in your femininity...what a cool thing! I know for myself that when I am kind, warm, sweet, etc. it creates the right environment for my H to respond to me. And I enjoy being this person. And it feels sensual. Unfortunately I came from a family where there was a lot of overt hostility expressed: my parents are constantly berating one another and putting each other down. Part of me feels like this is normal behavior, that they're being genuine with each other. I sometimes feel fake when I am being nice. Yet, if I want a respectful, loving relationship maybe at times I need to act the part a bit...try a little harder. If I use my parents as role models..well, they are close and committed to each other but I never saw real intimacy between them. This competitive thing women have with men comes from years of being repressed and wanting equality...our generation really went overboard righting the wrongs, to the detriment of our sensuality.

Anyway...gladn you are discovering new ways of being and feeling...it sounds exciting! Maybe you'd consider opeing an ettiquite school for delinquent, pseudo-independent, caustic brainy women.

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BF:

Quote:

My point was, these instances are going to occur. There is no avoiding them. Ive thought long and hard about it, and the aspects that make a man attractive initially are the same ones that will instigate this sort of thing.

Quote:

There are times when the man just has to get over himself and emote feeling with his W, and being 'a man'




What if he busy dealing with his issues and doesnt have the resources for her problems too? Effectively what you are saying is ... I need you- get over yourself- and be here for me. I understand.




No, I am not saying that, not saying that at all. What I am talking about, however, does not take an all-day, deep, philosophical conversation, it does not require you giving up your needs in order to meet mine kind of thing.

It requires sensitivity and awareness on the man's part, the same as it does on a woman's part. I don't think that means a woman should become more like a man, or that a man should become more like a woman when showing empathy and compassion for the other... my point is.... ANYONE can show empathy and compassion for another being REGARDLESS of what is going on in their life. I think where it becomes difficult for people is when the person who wants/needs the comforting is seen by the OP as the source of their own pain.

Like I said, when things are happy and balanced, this is not difficult for people to do for one another. It is when the R is out of balance, tension and pain are in the air, and the woman (or man) is asking for something the other is just not able or willing to give.... basic lack of empathy and compassion... that starts pounding the final nails into the coffin. I think this occurs because somewhere along the way, the man and the woman have lost basic respect for their fellow being.

I know that is what happened with xH and I... I can certainly see it in UD's case, but I think her case is clearly different than most of ours... I can see it in your sitch, too.

I think it is far more... 'normal' and natural for a woman to show empathy and compassion. What is NOT normal for her is to lose this impulse. When that happens, you've got a devcon 5 alert, kwis?

OTOH, just because it isn't as natural for a man to show empathy and compassion, especially when he is dealing with his own stuff... does not mean he cannot dredge it from his being... IF he is operating with awareness. As many LD ladies on this board have learned... there are times when you just have to do what does not feel normal or natural for the sake of the R. Otherwise, I think what you are saying is a form of... "I don't feel like having sex and you do. Not my problem... deal with it."

It may not be your best effort, you can only do what you can do.... I can understand for a man how uncomfortable and difficult this can be, and in order to avoid, how further into his work he can bury himself, how more emotionally distant and absent he will become... how pissed at his wife he can get because she needs/wants something from him he just doesn't feel comfortable in giving...

But too bad. Sometimes 'alpha' and attraction, and R dynamics HAVE to go out the flippin window in order to maintain our basic regard for one another as fellow beings... to have a basic understanding that this 'whatever issue' is not about ME, and it is not about YOU, or winning, or giving in... it isn't about 'fixing' someone else's problem, or conceding your own in favor of someone else's... it is a basic recognition that another is in crisis, and that you can recognize and empathize with their pain, for you feel it, too.

I think when we lose that for one another, the R is GONE. When you lose the impulse to extend to your spouse the same basic regard you would immediately offer a stranger or one less fortunate than yourself (in the midst of all your same exact problems and issues)... you ARE better off chucking the whole thing. For at that point, basic respect is gone.

I'm sorry, I do not see that as a 'get of jail free' card for the alpha. It what separates boys from men and girls from women. It is a 'get the heck over myself, it isn't about ME' moment in the context of an R.

As an example. I think NOP came to this understanding with Mrs. NOP, and I'd consider him every bit as alpha as any alpha can be. There were things Mrs. NOP has been asking of him for YEARS, and she finally just gave up asking.

In his pursuit to get things back on track, he was able to recognize it. He saw things that were important to HER that may not be important to him... and he saw how disregarding those needs did as much damage to the R as anything he had accused her of. I am sure that that recognition on his part was every bit as painful for him as any recognition that Mrs. NOP had. But in recognizing it, and fixing it, it did not mean he became any less alpha, or became any less of a man, or that he put aside his own pain for hers. He simply restored his respect and acknowledgement for a fellow being... who happened to be his wife, btw. I hope they show up here and will perhaps discuss it a bit further, because I am not sure I am communicating what I mean as clearly as I can.

When you say that my xH was so alpha he made you look like the Taco Bell dog... honey... that is NOT alpha. That is narcassitc. That is an alpha gone bad. Any alpha worth his salt, in my mind, has a basic regard and respect for life, and his fellow beings. He won't be walked on, but he seeks first to do no harm. That, to me, is the integrity of the alpha.

And that does mean, sometimes, that in the midst of your own pain and confusion, you can also recognize and acknowledge the pain and confusion of another.

Corri

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Wow, what a cool thread. So much to respond to.

MrsNop, thank you for your concrete suggestions. My biggest obstacle wrt communicating with H is keeping him on topic. That is, if I tried to talk about my dad's death by tying it into Scripture, he'd be off and running, quoting this and that and I'd gently (or not so gently, depending on my mood, LOL) say "H I thought we were talking about his death.." He give me a homer simpson doh! and then be too chagrined to carry on after that.

What I really need, and I thought of this after I last posted, is a gentle but effective Mantra to say to him when he starts bolting at the first sight of intimate communication. I will have to keep thinking on that one.

Betsey, gosh almighty that was hard to read about your D's diagnosis and MrWhackjob's response. As a mother, I could totally relate to the devastation and the subsequent abandonment.
Blackfoot, I have no problem (and I suspect that Bets doesn't either) with MrW's style of dealing with pain. My problem is with him enmeshing himself in Betsey's world and attempting to dictate how she should be reacting. I don't think that he is necessarily required to comfort and "there, there" her but his behavior was totally outta line and no freakin wonder she remembers it to this day, nearly what bets 7 yrs later?

I think that situation boils down not to men being logical in their grieving but in their confounded compulsion to FIX every damn thing they encounter. They see a sobbing woman on the floor and think, Oh great now I'm supposed to make that all better when I'm hurting too? Whatever.

When in reality she is just doing what came naturally to her at that moment. If he can't handle it, that's his problem. But HOW DARE HE make his inability to handle it her problem by tossing out some cold words in order to disguise the fact that he can't handle it.

But that is not even the worst of what got me fired up re: your words.
Mister, I do not have blond hair. My hair is very dark brown.
There was one disastrous time, in college, when I dyed my dark hair platinum blond because I had just gotten dumped for a blonde but we're not gonna talk about that.
My picture is somewhere on this website but you have to understand that I was days away from delivering BabyPot and so, well, let's just say that I've looked better.

Oh Betsey, I cracked up laughing at your book suggestion. You know, someone else recommended that book to me a while back and I went to amazon and read some of it and nearly fell over. I never bought it but I 'got' it, nonetheless. It was really a shock to me that men like that kind of thing..the wife who lets them have the final say even when all parties present know that she knows the answer as well, and so on and so forth. Another one that blew me away was how much and how often men want praise. THIS has borne more marital fruit than anything else I've done or tried. Who knew.

But, yeah, I'm not a manipulator. It icks me out, even if it would 'work'.

Finally, where was I all this time? Why, in Colorado of course! Ok, ok, don't get your panties in a bunch, I was only there for 12 hours or so. My sister came for a visit and then I drove back with her and her little ones, to help with the drive, and flew back the next morning. This time I flew out of Colo Sprgs but next time I fly in/out of Denver, maybe we can do lunch? Whatcha say..
Btw, I always pictured YOU with blond hair. Funny.

One more thing. I meant to write in my last post that I was raised in a *dysfunctional* feminist household. I didn't mean to imply that the feminism screwed me up, rather it was the twisted style of feminism (criticize your man til he is nothing but a worn out nub and then wonder why you are all alone in running the ship) that surrounded me that did the trick. I guess you could say I'm an old bitch learning new tricks.


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IHJ:

Quote:

Unfortunately I came from a family where there was a lot of overt hostility expressed: my parents are constantly berating one another and putting each other down. Part of me feels like this is normal behavior, that they're being genuine with each other. I sometimes feel fake when I am being nice. Yet, if I want a respectful, loving relationship maybe at times I need to act the part a bit...try a little harder. If I use my parents as role models..well, they are close and committed to each other but I never saw real intimacy between them. This competitive thing women have with men comes from years of being repressed and wanting equality...our generation really went overboard righting the wrongs, to the detriment of our sensuality.




I, at first, felt 'fake' being... 'nice.' I'll tell you, that woman I met this past week, The Blonde, tested me like nothing has tested me so far. She was so 'in my face,' in a nicy-nice, cutsey, charming way, I could have vomited. And I was trembling from head to foot from the effort it took me NOT to bury my pointy witch shoes in the deepest nether regions of her cute perky butt.

Did I feel fake sitting there, being 'nice?' No. What I would have, at one point considered feeling fake was actually the battle I was having with myself NOT to compete with her. To not allow her to goad me. And BELIEVE ME, I could have made MINCE MEAT of her. All with a lovely charming smile of my own plastered all over my face.

But that type of response, to me, makes a woman ugly. I was dealing with a girl and I knew it. I let my empathy and compassion for her quell my own desire to squash her... for I have been in her shoes.

I understand the family in which you were raised, and I believe you have been taught to compete. We all have. Some of us gals get REALLY good at it. You have already seen for yourself the response you get from your H when you create a warm and sweet environment... keep doing it, and even try to do it at times when you just don't FEEL like it. To me... the response you get in the long run pays off dividends far bigger than the personal satisfaction you may get in the short run by giving into the impulse to compete (even though it may feel REALLY, REALLY good at the moment.)

Man, there isn't anything I would love more than to sit for a weekend with the gals here on the board, just talking with each other. And what we have all learned here, collectively, would make the most amazing book.

It's funny, I've talked with younger women, or even women who are just now starting the process we all have been exploring for years on this board... and sometimes I am at a complete loss in trying to convey to them what we've been able to learn from one another here. But they sense it in me, as I am sure other women sense the same thing in all of you.

I talked with another woman this week who was telling me about some issues with a man she was dating, giving me examples... and it really boiled down to example after example of her competing with him.... then they would fight... he'd get over it, she'd hang onto it... the process would then feed the next round of bickering... and she could not, for the life of her, understand WHY this continued to happen.

I told her to stop competing with him, and I tried to explain to her what I meant by that... and my god, you would have thought I had grown horns out of my head. Maybe it's just an understanding you have to grow into, I don't know....

But in your case... fight the habitual behavior you have learned... and do it little by little. Trying to do it all at once, all the time, will defeat you. Just stay aware of how it works for you... and what will begin to happen is that you will give up your habitual impluse to send a zinger, even in a joking way, because you like this new you far more than you ever thought you would... it's more natural, more pleasant.... even if it doesn't feel that way at first.

Jesus, I cannot even believe this stuff is coming out of MY mouth...

Corri

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Honey:

Quote:

What I really need, and I thought of this after I last posted, is a gentle but effective Mantra to say to him when he starts bolting at the first sight of intimate communication. I will have to keep thinking on that one.




Have you ever thought about just telling him what kind of response you are looking for from him before you begin?

I went to this management workshop once, and for some reason, your mantra question made me think of it.

In the workshop, the workshop leader said a lot of times, management creates moral problems with their employees because when an employee comes to them with an issue, their typical first response is to 'fix' the problem. Why else would the employee be coming to them, afterall? What in many cases happens, however, is that the employee leaves the office feeling powerless and worse than when they went into speak with their boss... because the boss just 'took' the problem, dismissed the employee, and moved on with thier day.... not realizing they had just made the 'problem' worse.

The employee was looking for help, or encouragement, or validation, or empahty... and the manager missed it... simply because s/he was UNCLEAR of what the employee needed from them at the time of communication. The employee coming to the manager may not even know what they needed... but it all went south because neither stated up front what they needed or wanted from the convo.

So... she suggested for managers (because employees will rarely think of it... not their job, anyway)... that before the beginning of any conversation, to ask the person first... 'do you just need me to listen, or do you want me to tell you what I think should be done?' By doing so, it makes the person define the objective of the convo, so it keeps them on track, and it makes the person with the problem clarify for themselves what is they need in order to regain their sense of power. She also suggessted putting a time limit on the conversation in order to keep the employee focused on the issue, and not bring in every little problem under the sun.

I don't think Mr. H is going to do this for you... but you can certainly do it for him... you can say..."Mr. H, I need you to listen to me for 15 minutes. I don't want you to fix me, I don't want you to make me feel better, I just need you to listen. I might fall apart during the conversation, I might not, but at the end of it, I will want a hug."

Or... "Mr. H... I'm having a problem. Maybe. Can I tell you about it so you can tell me what you think?"

Sounds rather 'what's the point-ish.' But over a period of time... you won't have to do it. All you'll have to do is say... I need you to listen, or I need your opinion... and given the type of guy he is... if he knows up front what it is you want/need from him, I think he will try to give it to you.

I think many times guys run from intimate convos because they are unclear of what they are supposed to do... and when they don't know the objective up front... they try to fix... 'cuz that's what guys do.

So. If you state up front what you need... I need you to LISTEN... and give it a time frame... for 15 minutes... and then you explain the indicator of when it is done... and then I will need a nice big hug from you... he'll learn how to listen or fix.

Just really sucks to have to be so explicit.... he should just KNOW how to do this... but. We now understand very well that that's just not the way it works in the real world, don't we?

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Corri and Honey--So glad you 2 got back to tell about your escapades. I'll have more later, cause I'm busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest... but here's some good ruminating over here on Corri/Blackie's thread. I am really enjoying your angles, because they give me TONS to think about.

Corri--I've actually learned to do tell specific men what I need from them when I need to share. When I'm extremely specific, the results have turned out surprisingly well. Depending on who the guy is, I'll just say something along the lines of, "I'm not looking for you to fix me or my problem or comment on my emotions, but I need a safe place to share, so unless I ask for advice, I'd appreciate it if I can have the floor until I directly hand it over to you."

I had no idea how that would be received the first time I did it. But I've tried it on a few men with success. So Honey, I'm endorsing. One of those men does happen to be Mr. W. (or is that Mr. Whackjob? ) Honey, let's see. Diagnosis on D9 was almost 7 years ago. I do remember it vividly because it was the day I KNEW that my life was irrevocably changed. And the fact that I felt I had no support was something I associated to the event for a long, long time. It's only been in the last 2 years that I've forgiven him. Surprisingly enough, it didn't complete until I did some more work in my own life on emotions and depending on others to make me feel good. I realize that it might have been what he thought about me, but I had an alternate POV. I wanted to share my pain with the one and only person who knew exactly what I was going through. And he wouldn't do it with me. Would it surprise you guys if I said that the pain from this experience wasn't as bad as the pain I felt when he walked out on me over the holidays? I think that's party due to the fact that I kind of regrouped quickly after the Dx became real--instead of allowing myself to play victim, I began to research the prognosis quite heavily. The more involved I became by looking for a solution, the less painful the reality became. I still have my moments, but they are not very often. And the Dx day (or D-day) seems like a distant memory that I view as an old movie--the characters don't seem to resemble me or Mr. Wonderful much these days. The walk out was far more personal and Betsey specific.

Quote:

Just really sucks to have to be so explicit.... he should just KNOW how to do this... but. We now understand very well that that's just not the way it works in the real world, don't we?




I used to think it sucked, but I don't anymore. After all, nobody else knows that I'm thirsty and want them to get me a drink.... or that I'm exhausted and need to tell them it's time to go to bed, right? It's just more of the same, and I really need to remind myself to stop expecting other people to read my mind. Hell, I can barely do the job myself most days...

Ballroom dancing sounds awesome! (My sis and her H both do that too and love it) So does travel to Denver. Wait a minute, I live in Denver. I'd love to meet you wherever you are... so consider that a bonafide offer I'm going to accept.

Um, no, I'm a brunette (okay, with lots of gray) that is highlighted heavily to cover that gray. So it's a lighter hue. I married the blonde! I'm not as tall as you are, but tall. I don't remember you posting a pic, so I'll have to do it in person.

Corri--I posted more of my feminine friend pursuits on my own thread. It's my personal mission lately, and I'm getting favorable results. So if either of you are in town on Thursday, I'm having a girls only party... and I'm anticipating it very much.

Well, my D12 has now taken on the persona of BA Baracus from the A-team. She's telling D9 that she pities the fool... so that can't be good. It's time to close shop!

Take care, ya'll and I'll come back with some real comments to your interesting musings later.

Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

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You know, I am not one of those women who thinks, "He should just know.."; I have no problem stating exactly what I need.

I suppose my problem in this matter comes in the fact that I have to say it *every time*. That, to me, gets old real quick.
Corri, I have used (or paraphrased) those exact words you suggested with him. I've had varying levels of success with it. I'm not sure what the problemo is, other than what I wrote re: his attention span.
A sample convo might go like this:
(honeypot feeling frustrated over xyz)
HP: H, can I talk to you for a minute? Know up front that I just want you to listen to me and make 'there, there' noises at me...
MrHP: I'm your man for the job.
HP: Well it concerns xyz and I just don't think I can take it anymore. I'm at my wits' end.
MrH: Why don't you do this?
HP: H, remember that you were going to just listen?
MrH: Right, right....go on. (frustrated sigh)
HP: You're bummin me out. I'm not all that inclined to keep sharing with you if you are going to make pissy noises about it.
MrH: Well, what is it I'm supposed to do here? Just nod my head? Do you have to dictate my every stinkin move?
HP: No, I'm just telling you upfront what I need right now.
MrH: Well you know what the Bible says about it...(insert long dissertation that is neither here nor there, most of the time)
HP: Yeah, well, I'd like you to listen to what *I* have to say, since that was the whole point of this thing.
MrH: How long is this going to last? I've got stuff to do.
HP: (gives cold stare and calls end to conversation.)

He deflects the entire time so that he doesn't have to be confronted with my discomfort.

I remember the day after my dad's funeral he walked in the room and saw me crying steady, steady tears. He stopped suddenly and said, What's the matter?? I replied (incredulously) What do you think is the matter? He came back with, Man how long is this going to last?
I said, H he was just buried yesterday. Yeah, that's true, he says.

He has just been spoiled with happy go lucky Honeypot our entire M and he subtly but firmly tries to direct my mood back to that place, regardless of the circumstances. And most of the time, I let him.

Anyway, I suppose the answer is to say that mantra every single time til it sinks in his noggin. I can do that.

For what it's worth, he absolutely sucks at validation and 'there there' noises AND he bristles if I try to do it to him, when he's down about something. Oh man, them's fighting words to him. LOL
Perhaps blackfoot can enlighten me as to why a man would NOT want to be comforted when they're down. Btw, I'm not an over-the-top comforter. I simply say one tiny thing (wow that sucks) and he's snapping my head off. I actually think it's funny, lest anyone think I'm whining about it. Of course, I don't laugh to his face but you kwim.


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Honey:

Quote:

A sample convo might go like this:
(honeypot feeling frustrated over xyz)
HP: H, can I talk to you for a minute? Know up front that I just want you to listen to me and make 'there, there' noises at me...
MrHP: I'm your man for the job.
HP: Well it concerns xyz and I just don't think I can take it anymore. I'm at my wits' end.
MrH: Why don't you do this?
HP: H, remember that you were going to just listen?
MrH: Right, right....go on. (frustrated sigh)
HP: You're bummin me out. I'm not all that inclined to keep sharing with you if you are going to make pissy noises about it.
MrH: Well, what is it I'm supposed to do here? Just nod my head? Do you have to dictate my every stinkin move?
HP: No, I'm just telling you upfront what I need right now.
MrH: Well you know what the Bible says about it...(insert long dissertation that is neither here nor there, most of the time)
HP: Yeah, well, I'd like you to listen to what *I* have to say, since that was the whole point of this thing.
MrH: How long is this going to last? I've got stuff to do.
HP: (gives cold stare and calls end to conversation.)





If that is how your convos go, then sweety, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but YOU are the one who is diverting and getting off track. Where I think you are is what I've marked in bold.

Rather than proceed with the convo, you turned it on him because of his exhasperated sigh. I realize that is not the response you asked for... however... I don't think the <sigh> is about you... more along the lines of him expressing his own frustration for not 'doing it right.' So now, the convo is not about what you asked him for, but how is he supposed to respond... and of course he is going to defend himself.

I would also imagine the reason why he runs from intimate convos and 'there, there' moments is because he thinks he doesn't 'do it' right, and he's going to make the sitch worse instead of better... and if it gets worse, then he's REALLY in trouble. So... he encourages you to get better as fast as possible so he doesn't have to fret. It's my guess that it isn't so much what you are asking of him, but HOW you are asking... keep on task, girl. His NATURAL inclination is to fix, and when you ask him NOT to do that, I'm sure it takes him a moment to 'realign.' He has to slow down and THINK about it, instead of doing what comes natural. Help him a little bit so he can give you the empathy and compassion you are seeking.

Just a guess on my part.

So... I would approach the intimate convo thing just like you approached the whole sex issue... compliment him for his effort, thank him for his willingness to 'work on it,' when he gives you support or encouragement without asking for it... point it out to him. "There. Just like that. That's what I'm talking about. That's very nice."

I'm sure with your razor sharp mind, once you get your mind around this one, he's going to feel like comforting you is and always has been natural for him, and all his idea.

Corri

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