"Officially" piecing... now the real work begins..

[yoyogirl]

I know everyone here says you don't want to know details, leave the past as the past, and don't discuss it. But I still want to know more. I want more information. I've read books that say the only way you can rebuild trust is through honest communication... and that includes talking about the affair. If they talked about us to the OP and that created a sort of special bond, how can we not have a special bond without similar sharing of thoughts and experiences?

I think we go through phases. I for one, sometimes thinks that the past is the past. Forget about it. He's here now.. But on the other hand, you want him to tell you what's so great about the ow etc etc. Why and what they did etc.. but I think knowing more also makes us more negative for the present and future. Many times, things were really good between us, and I would have the BIG mouth to ask a certain question, and the truth really hurt like hell, and then I would be grouchy and sad etc.. and it thus fouls up the rest of the day and even more.. So, I guessed the BIG picture is to let bygones be bygones..

(HOPE that I can adhere to this myself..hee hee)

[cat03]

I remember asking my H what positive things he learm from himself or what he liked that maked him happy inthe other R that he'd like to see in us. His response was ..nothing, he didnt' want to remember the R w/ow, that he only wished it had never happened, that he didn't even want to think of it nor any details.

So this kind of question can be asked, not the buthead questions I'd asked "what did you do w/her in bed that was so great" and stuff, some questions like "how long did it last" and such can be asked, any other details will just sicken you and pop up first thing in the am and not leave you alone.

[toughlover]

Yeah I get pretty much the same tune from my W. I asked her point blank what OM did for her that I don't do and she says, "Nothing. You're great. It's just that I got to where I hated you cause you were hurtful and he was nice and kind and sweet to me."

I personally believe she feels like she owes him for that. Maybe she rationally knows she doesn't, but I think she feels a sense of obligation toward him. I mean, OM divorced his wife, bought a new house, took an extra job, all this stuff for he and my W...and then we moved, she cut off all contact with him, and there you have it. So I think in addition to the general guilt over her failures, she has guilt over all that as well.

[cat03]

wow TL, he really went the whole 9 yrds, I guess that's why my H sent the op flowers on her bday after he moved in w/me, guilt, a way to say sorry perhaps. Though later on he did admit it was stupid to do so since she just took advantage of him (he was the delivery/electritian/moving guy for her).

[toughlover]

Yeah, he's clearly a moron who thinks with his pecker.

[cat03]

You said it! ROFLMAO

You know? I'm almost glad the ow was a heartless slut, has she really seen the person my H really is she wouldnt' have let him go, she didnt' want to feel tied down w/a R w/him, she even asked him if he didn't mind "sharing" girlfriends since she wanted to sleep around w/others than my H, bet that bruised his ego.

[runningoutoftime]

I've been thinking a lot about everyone here, different threads and how each person is handling things.

One thing I've noticed, and maybe it's just the threads I read and where individual people are, is that it seems as if the husband's whose wives cheated are recovering more easily (or moving forward and letting things go) better than the wives whose husband's have cheated. Anyone else notice this?

I wonder if this has to do with women (in general) romaticizing while men (in general) tend to look at things more logically???

It's kind of interesting to hear what OP was to our spouses. TL I can understand how your wife must feel guilty with OM doing all that. In fact, because he did go to that length, I could imagine her romanticizing the whole sitch beyond reality. Cat, you are so fortunate your husband's OW was really heartless. More than likely that taught him a good lesson. At least he expresses his regrets about it well.

With my own H this area really concerns me. I'm not sure what he learned and where his moral compass points. Yes, he eventually came home, spent a huge amount of money through the whole thing (he now realizes just how expensive divorce is!), but I'm just not sure how much he has learned from all this. Even through he divorced prior to all the physical stuff, it bothers me that he didn't seem to care that she was married. It bothers me that he didn't mind getting that intimately involved with a married person.

Like, if it didn't bother her, why should he care? This disturbs me because it shows a general disrespect for marriage. This might seem trivial, but I spent three years before the divorce trying to get my husband to wear his wedding ring. He still hasn't put it back on (well he did leave it when he moved out!) and I don't wear mine either. He hasn't brought it up and neither have I. After three years of trying to convince him that it was important to me, I'm not going to bring it up. I'm not going to be a "broken record." But the way I feel is that marriage doesn't mean that much to him. That trait bothers me.

[toughlover]

Hey, root,

It bothers me that he didn't mind getting that intimately involved with a married person.

Well this really gets at the heart of things. I think mature attraction is based on more than just the physical/biological/chemical.

I know that I can find a woman physically attractive or not, but if her character repels me, then forget it.

That's why I was concerned for such a long time about my M...it's not like my W simply told me she was done and walked away, got involved with OP...she helped wreck OM's marriage (not sad for him, but I am for his wife, who I know), insured our M was in the toilet (which also hurts our children), lied to and used our friends and family, and pretty much had me convinced that all the bad stuff I saw in our M I was delusional about, crazy.

So when I think on that, I find her completely repulsive.

However, the way she's acted since the bomb has been almost exemplary, which also has me worried that she bounces between those extremes. That's why I used to post on here that I was worried she was just a train wreck, mentally, and we would never have a strong, healthy marriage even if I were superhusband because she's just nuts. And I confess there's a part of me that still fears that.

I do think she romanticizes things way more than she admits. I have often described her as the most level-headed flake I know, and there is certainly that aspect to her personality.

She has a marked inability to see the big picture most of the time in a way that I don't understand. She admits this, tells me she needs me because I always see the forest whereas she only sees the trees she wants to see.

In terms of our faith she also admist she knew it was wrong the whole time she was doing it but didn't care. Decided she would sin now, then repent later, because he was wonderful and worth it.

Of course he was also a liar and a cheater, but that didn't matter. And he was an alcoholic (a fact he hid from her as long as he could), suffered from depression (gee, reckon why?), and also very likely concealed the fact he had an STD from her (since genital herpes very often is non-symptomatic, he most likely figured she'd never develop it).

Like my football coach used to say, if you lie down with dogs, you're going to end up with fleas.

[cat03]

it is true, the men on piecing seem to recover better than us, and also as someone pointed out, there are more women here than men, meaning women do loose themselves more emotionally and fewer come back.

he didn't seem to care that she was married...
...and where his moral compass points

For one, no, they didnt' care if the op was married, betrothed or anything, he just clicked w/her running, if a single gal had been there at the right time he would've gone w/her.

Now, about the moral compass, that is something that does bother me too. Since my H's been back he thinks all people have a good potential to be scum bags, that no one is to be trusted. He sunk so low and he used to be such a shy, sweet innocent guy. Because of scummy ow he says he isnt' the "touchy-feely" kind of guy anymore, he sort of dropped the you-dont-own-me chip off his shoulder (verbatum dogma courtesy of ow) but he still is very guarded of others. Maybe w/time and when our Ms becomes stronger those wrong perceptions will change.

My H still won't come to church w/us, I'm not pushing the subject but it does sadden me to no end, I married him knowing he loved God above all, that was the main reason I choose him, so for now I just lift in prayer every night and day.

Anyways, my point was running, that your H involving himself w/ a married woman was as bad as involving himself w/a single one.We have two kids, he didn't care. I actually found a note (he'd write lots of things to make sure he'd say the "rigth" stuff to her) that said he wished he didn't have kids, isnt' that awful? most likey because ow didnt' want them and they were a responsability-- he made himself agree/like the beliefs she embraced, he wanted to be on the same pg w/her.

[toughlover]

isnt' that awful?

Well, yeah, it is...but I think that is a common MLC regret...everyone wishes they'd done things differently, yada yada.

My W admitted a few weeks ago when we last discussed this garbage that she really had emotionally abandoned our kids. She kept saying that she justified the A because she and I fought too much and I was too angry all the time (gee...reckon why?) and that divorcing me was important to "save the kids" LOL.

So I said, well things have been the same between us for 6 years now, so if I was really as horrible as you say I am, why did you let them suffer all this time? I mean, by the time you got around to divorcing me, our oldest would be in college and the younger would be driving.

So she admitted that it was really all about her...that was just an excuse, a lie she told herself which meant, basically, that "well at least I wouldn't be miserable anymore." Heh.

It really is alien thinking. I think they eventually come back to earth, gradually, slowly, and it just feels wierd to them when they snap out of it...kind of like suddenly being in thinner atmosphere or something. The world looks the same, but feels different.

I think re-entry is a huge problem for them to overcome. When the aliens return them from the mothership, that is...

Truth is, I think my W is, unfortunately, one hugely self-centered and selfish individual who goes for any port in the storm when the water gets a little choppy (to get us back on our nautical metaphors, root ).