What a very deep and likely very painful realization you have made here. Took a lot of soul searching for that one I am sure. You should know you are strong enough to overcome it - and I worry not that you aren't already processing and getting past it - at whatever pace you think is right...
I continue to be awed and amazed at your patience...
You know, I wanted to follow through a bit on what bj mentioned in her post - re the lingere. Don't know why I feel I need to clarify myself - and I do so appreciate the continued dialog...cannot help myself.
Soooo, to be clear, I was only talking about nice undies - something she could/would wear, that wouldn't be outlandish or necessarily "explicit". My AWAW's favorite PJ's are a silk number - feminine and pracical. I bought her a new pair, impromptu a couple weeks back and it went over well. If I was to buy her something more outlandish, say from Fredricks, I would do so with her...and how cool might that be...
I KNOW for a fact, for me, I almost got (okay DID get) to the point where I was ashamed in some way about my desires for my W. I further now believe that this is NOT good for any relationship. I won't be ashamed of my desire for my W and I will experiment with ways to demonstrate it. In fact, my retort to AWAW on the PJ thing specifically mentioned how I love the way silk PJ's make her a$$ look. There is no reason I should be ashamed of that and if I am, then I am a spineless wuss.
All that said, bj, might it be said that one of the most important things to understand is that you need to KNOW your partner. I'd agree that to not, and then try something like described above is dangerous at best.
In the end, X, what I think you have been hearing here is that you will be the one that needs to lead - you are the one that needs to be in control. If you spend too much time in analysis mode, you miss (and you give up) the chance to be in CONTROL. Your W will always oscillate - key here is to grab the wave and ride.
Sorry to steal your thread Xue. You see, I think we are in similar places sometimes. Always seeming on the edge of something really good - but just don't get there and I think sometimes it is because we lose the control. Take it back and cross that finish line!
Sven.
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
I absolutely agree about the being in control thing. It is an astounding analysis. Yes I know it is crucial.
The being on the edge of success is trying as you know. And it almost seems more difficult when that carrot is just barely outside of our grasp and we seem to be standing on the edge of a cliff.
I do think my realization is the key I've been looking for, actually the lock. Now off in search of the key.
I know now how much I've done to bring on my greatest fear and how that fear works against me. I do think I am processing it. Analyzing it won't work. I've turned to meditation and that seems to be helpful. I think it is a skill I need to develop.
Fortunately I have a new friendship and that friend is skilled in meditation. Perhaps I'll ask for help in that area.
I feel like I've been peeling an onion, Layer by layer. and I've got to the core. My core problem. Don't know what hers is and whatever it is it's for her to deal with, not me like I've been trying.
I said this before, long ago, but it is especially true for me now
The Four Noble Truths
1. In all marriage ther is suffering 2. Suffering is caused by desire. 3. Suffering may be eliminated by eliminating desire. 4. Desire is eliminated through the elimination of the ego.
This makes even more sense today. If I could just figure out number 4 a little better.
first off I would like to say Sven you can buy me silk pj's any time
there are lots of analysing happening here but I want to ask how does analysing and working out how you tick - what bothers you and why good for moving forward what does it change for you?
so what are the goals here what do you want your life to be like how long will are you prepared to let things stay the same
if you change nothing then nothing changes I know you agree
so you go out and talk to people and she comes up and puts her arm through yours she is clearly telling people you belong to her your reaction is the one that counts
I would like to see you look at her and say did you want something and then manouvere things so she can no longer link her arm through yours possibly use your own body language to turn slighty away from her create a little confusion and hesitation in her mind
nothing glaringly obvious mind you but subtle
your big problem is when she does this you feel good about so you forget that later she will be back on the couch do you not think you should in public treat her (still with respect) but like the person that sleeps elsewhere and not with sort of like how you would treat me if I were somewhere with you friendly but not intimate if she says anything you just say I don't understand why you want to act intimate with me in public when we are not intimate
I think you need to do something different only you know what to do and what will work
The evil C woman is not only evil she is a moron blame the coffee good job your W didn't have to make breakfast lunch and dinner the stupid woman would have told her to give up food
change something do you want to be posting on here in another ten years do you want to be 60 and still analysing
come on Xue you are on of the smartest people I know (besides me )
Yesterday I sat down and had a talk about this with W. Brought it up and told her. Told her bad it messed me up and how sometimes I was terribly unable to control my reactions. Her response was a little jumbled but good. Something about me doing the right thing and trying to save the marriage. (half of it was under her breath) Then she went on immediatly to bring up her brother and his ex-wife who it sounds like they just got back together. They divorced around the time we were separated. Anyway that was jumbled to so I just left it all alone.
Tonight we are going to a formal party. Very romantic. She hasn't said a word about our plans other than we'll be gone for the weekend. I'm just going with the flow on this one and see what happens.
I mades ome other changes last week too but I'll tell you about them later. Gotta go.
If nothing happens my changes will get more drastic next week
Hey Xue glad you opened up the communication channel on this
of all the males I have spoken to in person and in writing you truly have to be one of the best communicators I have come across you have a brilliant mind - you also have brilliant body language (I see you from your writings) though language is only 20% verbal I truly think that you have given 150% on the non-verbal and now need to put in the same effort on the verbal side
I also see your wife as being at the stage where she sees and recogises the signs but is unsure what to do about it all - in the back of her mind (as in yours I am sure) there is still that little voice saying 'yes but what if you read it wrong'
I really think if you two can sit down - and have a solution -focused discussion not one about what went wrong or goes wrong but more one of those miracle question conversations you know the one where you sit down in a nice comfortable safe place and you ask her if a miracle occurred tonight while she was sleeping and when she woke her life was great and all problems where fixed what would her life look like? and as she was asleep when the miracle happened how would she know it had happened what would be some of the things that would be different that would indicate to her that life was different and that the miracle had happened
I think you are both in a position to ask each other this question - to talk about it in great detail and paint a very descriptive picture of life after the miracle happened
I see you both so close to where you want to be but I also see you both a little worried about taking that first step
maybe after your formal party when you are both in that place where you feel comfortable after a great night you can say 'can I ask you a question that you don't have to answer now but one that I would like to ask and talk about over the next few days with you'
good luck Xue I think you are both teetering on the edge you just need to overbalance a little to fall into the future
I guess I still see her as extremely headstrong in her opinion, but wavering. I think she still sees it as either I win or she wins at least part of the time. Although I've contributed to this in the past I'm sure I think that I am no longer playing into that.
Well the Gala was great. I stepped out and took some chances like you guys have been telling me to.
We got to the hotel early and took a nap. When we started to get ready for the party I started turning it on a little. Telling her how sexy she looked and such. It was all accepted well.
Once at the party I became a little more affectionate with her. We danced nearly every dance from the first dance on. Almost all fast dances but we were constantly touching each other affectionately. She'd lean over to whisper in my ear and I'd put my arm around her gently as she did. We danced like this for a long time.
Then a slow danced came. She immediatly turned to leave and I grabbed her and aggressively pulled her back. I tried to pull her close but she resisted. She puts her arms between us when I pull her in. I was a little agressive about it. We ended up dancing with her one arm between us and the other we're holding hands. She would only allow me so close but she wouldn't let me pull away either, holding my hand in tight if I tried. Strangely symbolic of the way the relationship has been also, will only allow me to get so close but won't let me pull away either.
So we took a break from the dance floor. She's on the committee for the event so we had to get some work done. But as soon as we were done we were back out there on the dance floor. Fast dances again but now she's dancing far more sensually (wine?). Coming really close and sexy like then backing off. More in her little dance world this time though. Driving me freakin nuts is what she's doing.
We had met a woman there that totally fit into my "type" profile which is pretty specific. I'm certain my W recognized this before me. She kept bringing her up. and did so the next day too.
I recognize on the way out that W has had a little too much wine. Her voice was changing to a familiar "too much wine" tone.
We get back to the hotel and sit on the couch watching TV and talking.
When she gets up I make a move. I grab her and pull her in tight and tell her what I want. She has her arms around me too and at first it's ok. She kisses me and I kiss her on the shoulder and neck. This lasts for a few seconds And then the defenses go up. Arms go in between us. I keep it up pretty aggressively. She kisses me goodnight and walks out.
A few seconds later I come into the bedroom. I undress and crawl into bed with her(It was a room with double beds, she had earlier made the excuse that it was the last room so she took what she could get). I try to put my arms around her, she's till defensive. I hold her hand for a bit but eventually the pillows go in between us. In about a halk hour she gets up to go to the bathroom and when she returns she gets in the other bed.
So here's the really strange part. All of this is strangely liberating. It actually puts a smile on my face. I made my move and I knew the chances were probably close to 100% against me. But did it anyway. I couldn't understand it at first. I get rejected, which has been a terrible fear for me, and I'm almost happy about it. But then I realize, all of a sudden I'm not at all relying on her for and reflected sense of self. I feel pretty damn good about myself and her response to me has nothing to do with me.
I'd sure like to get it on with her but this is unrelated to my own feelings of myself. Strangely I had even caught myself in the mirror that night and realized "Hey, not bad"
So I lay there in bed after being rejected by my wife. Smiling!
The next morning things were good. Wasn't sure how they would be but it was all good. She was a little hung over, we hung out. She was even slightly affectionate when I kissed her. We spent the day window shopping and goofing off.
But last night her kisses turned slightly cold. At least I know why. She was doing the laundry and found the condoms in my pocket. Hey, I'm a positive thinker!
Oh well. Don't htink it will last long.
So that was my great adventure. GH and BJ I finally took your advice. Knew damn well I'd get rejected but somehow that wasn't the important thing. And that few seconds when she was thinking about it, ohhhh.
So I'm all of a sudden a pretty happy guy unaffected by rejection for the most part. We'll see what effect that has on the relationship. It has certainly had a wonderful affect on me and it removes her control from me.
Bj, I think your right about my body language. I always thought I was pretty hard to read but people tell me different. I think this will certainly show through.
I've made some spiritual connections with this to. Amazing how it's all related!
Honestly, awesome. Sorry you didn't get it through the goal posts (oh, did I say that out loud ), but awesome example of taking CONTROL and ACTING AS IF. You may have turned a corner.
I'm so glad you had a good time.
Remember - Acting as if. Means you continue act, specifically taking ACTION.
Go Xue, Go.
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
