Ahhhhh, Jaime Fraser....*slap* *slap* Wake up, Nicola!!
Well, he's handsome, great body, masculine, passionate, would make a woman feel physically safe. He's courageous, loves her to bits and lets her know it, would die for her. Need I go on? What's not to like?
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
Well you've got a good point there and I've decided that certain lines of thinking are beneficial and others are not. I've finally figured out that I have not recieved one bit of benefit from analyzing her. I cannot think of any and I doubt it has occured. However it most likely has caused me a great deal of pain and has damaged the R.
However analyzing interactions has been beneficial. That has been a plus and has helped me break the negative interaction patterns.
Analyzing myself has also been of great benefit.
I haven't made my move yet. Wrong time of month and I've been playing around with some other ideas first. But soon my friend, soon.
I posted my question about Jamie Fraser over on a forum devoted to the book series. I got an immediate response but the funny thing was it was not all the fantasy stuff I expected. It was all about listening skills and not fixing things, all that good stuff. Stuff I've already been working on pretty hard.
I guess it's a milestone for me that it didn't cause me any anxiety (at least until after she left, she seemed a little angry or something when she left, maybe just in a hurry, don't know.
Ya know I'm really seeing quite a disconnect between her actions and the things she thinks she wants to say. I think. Yeah I know putting words in her mouth but.
The way she kisses me is definetely significant. On her way out this morning she was headed out without a kiss. On her way to the evil C. I told her to give me a kiss and she did. But it was cold. She fluctuated a whole lot this morning between hot and cold. It's almost like on evil c days she's got to be that way to report to the C what she wants to hear. But she can't stay that way.
20 minutes later she's gotta call me to tell me about something she heard on the radio. It's like she tries to be cold to me but can't stay that way.
When she gets back from evil C she's cold again. But a few hours later she's changed.
So I sit down at her desk and in front of me are her notes scribbled on a napkin from her C appointment. They say"
"Stop being late
Be honest with Xue"
Wow I'm impressed with my importance.
So when she comes in she see's that her notes are there in front of me. Her eyes dart to them several times, I've obviously seen them. When I get up from the desk they are quickly snatched up.
So I'm headed out afterwards. I'm doing a live broadcast for election night. Big event. She puts herself between me and the door to make sure she gets a kiss on the way out.
Huh.
There's a serious disconnect here. Although she's not really saying anything I know her well enough to know what she's saying. Yes I can damn well read her mind (well kinda) But I also know that deep down she knows she's wrong.
She thinks she wants to leave me but she knows she doesn't.
I'm pretty damn sure she couldn't give a reason for going. She could give plenty for staying. But for some reason she's got in her head that she wants to go. But I don't think she knows what that means.
I'm also very sure that I remind the evil C of her Ex. The one she divorced right as we started therapy. She's bringing her own baggage in for sure.
Although I wish I could just go up and make a move as suggested. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work right now. Although I'm convinced it wouldn't take much to get into a position that it would work.
We stay in this stasis of me pursuing just a bit. Not to much but enough to know that I'm there. It also seems that as soon as I seem content to walk away she pursues pretty hard. I just haven't walked away far enough. I come back too soon.
The last time she pursued me was a few weeks ago. The dressing room incident. Well what I failed to mention on the boards is that I set that up. I walked into the place very confidently, talking to everyone. She didn't know anyone there, I did. I purposely struck up a conversation with a very attractive women like we were old friends. The girl was very flattered I was talking to her and showed it. My wife saw that. Moments later she was pursuing me.
I'm pretty damn confident that what I need to do is make myself scarce. And when she comes pursuing I gotta keep running. In the past when this has happened I've let her catch me way to easy. She's too confident that I'm too easy.
Now is the perfect time for it. Seeing the note is a great opportunity.
Now admittedly the note might not have been reffering to our R. Probably was but not necessarily. She hides financial data from me. She keeps our finances hidden from me. I know this is a source of her stress. Probably that old protecting me thing that she does. So it could have been about that. But I'll take the opportunity.
funny things happening over your way I agree with MMO - your wife seems a little emotionally immature - and I am beginning to think that though outwardly she projects as someone with huge self-esteem and being in control inside I think she is not sure who she is and has not yet found a balance being female, being strong, and having confidence in and likeing who she is
she seems to have an idea of a strong woman and then has a picture of herself and maybe her self image isn't matching up to what she thinks is a stong independent woman
I must say she sounds very interesting to be around I love the way she she jumps around a little and puts things out there to see what you think
Breast implants well I can honestly say I have never needed them but I have often been in places and situations where people (males) seem to have a problem understanding that my eyes are a little higher than the spot they are staring at I actually think that to have large breasts - real or otherwise - you really need to be comfortable with who you are Jane Fonda is probably very comfortable with her self as a person and felt ok about implants- she certainly does not strike me as someone who would have gotten them for anyone other than herself
wonder what your wife would say about me - I just got my hair extensions put back in long blonde locks people at work are calling me Malibu Barbie
I think its hilarious - but its looks cool and yes I do the thing from the Pink song
flicking my long hair back (the damn thing actually gets in the way and I have to flick)
but I most certainly don't think that it has changed who I am and neither did the eyebrow ring or the tatoo I got infact I think it makes me more interesting a clever Malibu Barbie
I think that now is the time to make a move am thinking one of two it will be you who will have to decide you either need to GAL of your own BIG TIME and see what happens like you have made this cognitive decision that you have waited long enough and will wait no more or put the move on her when she least expects it
and for the post on buying clothes previously clothes in general are usually fine - though personally I prefer to get my own with assistance from the male but sexy lingerie - that is a strange feeling it kind of feels like - you don't think I am sexy enough without it - you can only want me when I wear it - you don't like who I am - you are making it with the lingerie not me
its strange and very hard to put in writing but its the thoughts and feelings that it conjures up and I would only ever suggest buying it a) together and b) when the relationship is great all the time much better to have the female buy it herself and for you to make sure your eyes pop out of your head when she wears it
now Xue everytime you go out and do things on your own she calls and checks up on you or invites herself along you really need to rock her boat a little or this could on indefinately next time she talks about strong independent woman just say - yes - like you you are a strong independent woman thats why I like you
notice like not love wonder if she will notice that
instead of you trying and being happy why not be a little quiet and thoughtful say you are thinking about your life as it is (if she asks why you can say that you are evaluting where your life is going - or something like that) rock the boat shake up the status quo
watch the body language the more I think about this she is giving off lots of clues I hope the next night you tried the couch again or at least until you could jump back in bed and say why one earth you sleep on that uncomfortable thing I don't know -
imagine you are her you know her well what is it you would be trying to say without saying
do you think she is waiting for you to make the first move do you think she thinks YOU don't want her heck you have been sleeping in the big lonely bed for a long time now and what does that look like from her position does she think you are happy not sleeping WITH her does she think you like sleeping in the bed alone
did she huff and puff and move around waiting for you to get closer to her waiting for the next move
what do you think your behaviours are saying to her
I do watch her body language and I sense it quite well. It's what's been confusing me.
But no longer. I see it pretty clearly now. I also see that she tests me pretty hard.
Her body language changes pretty quickly and I see very clearly now that it is direct relationship to whether I am pursuing her or I am headed in another direction.
This is a typical interaction. All week her body language is quite reserved. Friends but not lovers sort of thing. Kisses are friendly but no passion. She's my business partner, she's my best friend, she's my roomate, but that's it. Often times when I kiss her she kisses me back but wipes it off her mouth. So we go to a social event. I start socializing with others. My attention is not on her. I've actually forgotten my usual pain for a moment as I'm enjoying a conversation. Then unexpectedly I feel her arm slip through mine and she pulls her body hard against me. Making sure I feel her breasts pushed into me. I feel good. I feel things are fixed. I pursue a bit. When I go to kiss her goodnight later on it's a good kiss but she quickly rolls over on the couch so that I cannot approach closer. Then within a day or so she goes cold again.
Being an optimist I come here and post my success. Of course by the time I'm posting we're already in a downhill slide and I feel it emotionally.
Thinking back over the last 17 years I see this pattern over and over.
I see that she very much wants what she can't have but despises what is freely hers. This is a very human characteristic but it is very strong in her. Why I don't know, and finding the reason is merely an intellectual pursuit of little value.
Coffee. That wonderful brew. Coffee plays a significant role here also. Strange as it may seem.
For the first few years of marriage she had a strong aversion to making coffee. As a child it was her job to make coffee and if she forgot her father awakened her in a rage. I don't know the specifics.
I do know that it was a struggle for her to prepare the coffee the evening before. There was symbolism attached to it. The symbolism of being a good daughter. The symbolism of being a good wife. There was a strong aversion to it. Like making coffee was stealing her freedom. Strange as this may sound I've known it for a very long time. So I've always made the coffee. No big deal. Or so I thought.
Now here's the interesting part. When we first went to counseling 01/18/05 the evil C convinced her that coffee was at the root of her anxieties and she needed to give it up. Following the evil C's advice as if she were some wise sage that knew all, she did. Now she didn't drink that much in the first place. No more than 2 cups and nothing else with caffiene throughout the day. But giving it up created such an extreme physical reaction that she was totally immobilized. Not the normal headaches and such. She was literally curled up in a ball on the floor. Her muscles constricted. She was crying and couldn't move for days. It was as if she'd given up heroine.
Later she professed the evils of coffee and was a "free" woman for giving it up.
Onward.
So about a month into our separation (we hadn't hardly talked to one another all month, things were very tense) She shows up with coffee. We went to the room and had coffee and hung out. It was the first time we had any kind of reconciliation.
Each day I tried to duplicate that. I'd lure her to the couch with coffee. Some days it worked, others not. Eventually it became our ritual and we normally spend 30-60 minutes every morning on the couch having coffee.
Now here's the kicker. Her attitude towards me is relative to the coffee. For example: Yesterday she gave her coffee to me. Said she didn't want it. Yesterday was a bad day. Today she immediatly asked if I'd go to starbucks and get her a double Latte. Today was a good day.
When she's about to turn cold that morning over coffee she'll say that she's going to give up coffee. I know very well that it is representative of following the advice of the evil C when she says it and there is more in that statement than appears on the surface.
Sounds strange but I've observed it over and over. I'm sure my reaction contributes also.
So today I'm doing a little testing myself. I ussually try to make sure she gets breakfast if she needs to head out for something. This morning I made it for myself and made no attempt at cooking her breakfast. Also, I ussually give her a kiss on her way out. Sometimes she'll head out and not approach to give me a kiss. My usual reaction is to get up and kiss her. This morning I didn't. She walked to the door, opened it and was on the way out. I didn't do a thing. Just kept at the computer. Guess what she did. Came back walked back to me and kissed me. It took a hell of a lot of willpower on my part, but it worked.
So something hit me about myself today. My own demon. Yesterday I ran into something she had written in a notebook. (snooping a bit I guess, kinda ran into it accidentally) It was her description in writing of the day we separated. She described it in detail. What hit me was she said I was more afraid than she had ever seen me. That's important. We've been through some really scary stuff together. But she was right, this affected me more than anything ever has.
Today I realized that she was right and I realized why.
when I was very young, 3 or 4, my mother had an affair. I have one memory of tempers flaring. She ran off with another man who became my step father. Well life wasn't good after that (who knows what it was like before). My step father was an abusive drunk and my mom was a numb drunk. Life was hell. My natural father had no contact with us. He left and never saw us again. Talked on the phone a few times but that was it. A therapist told him in the beginning that that would be the besst thing for us. That families that were torn apart by divorce suffered terrible problems and it was best to just let us have our life and not interfere. Well as one could guess my child mind attributed all of the pain and suffering we went through to divorce. We suffered horrible things and looking back I'm sure in my mind they were because of divorce. I've never realized that that is my own demon. Never knew that was my greatest fear. Mostly because the threat of it was so immobilizing for me that I blocked much of it out. Went numb. I'm sure we could talk a great deal about this but no need. The effect it's had is what's important to realize. And how to change it.
When this first came about it was a mortifying fear for me. I fought off terrible self destructive thoughts for a very long time.
As with everyone, it's a painful process. For me it was immobilizing.
Now looking back I can say that because my fear was so immobilizing it created what I feared the most. Strange how that works.
I'm really getting to understand why this is a spiritual battle more than anything.
What to do with my new found knowledge? Not sure, but it's a start.
Interesting Xue...I understand about feeling the immobilization.
I don't think anyone in my family had an affair, but my mom divorced my dad when I was 12 and my brother was 9. Bad time. She married a pretty good guy, but he married a drunk. But no one really gets over that stuff while they're kids...they just deal with it the best they can...do like an oyster and try to make a pearl out of something that's painful.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
