I should be the LAST one to make this kind of statement because I have MANY threads worth of thinking behind me but you think too much and IMHO, thinking is NOT what your sitch needs.
I tried for a year to figure out what my W wanted, what made her tick, what made her happy, etc, etc, etc. Sure, I was also trying to figure all that out about myself too, but when it came to the intimacy part, the sparking romance, I was so caught up in trying to figure everything out.
I FIRMLY believe that was my downfall for so long. I over thought EVERYTHING about this aspect of our R. What did she like, what did I do wrong, will she reject me, does she want me to initiate, how do I initiate, does she like it in the bedroom, in public, nice, dirty, verbal, silent, lights on, lights off, buy her sexy undies, what? What do I do to make this happen?
It wasn't until, in a perfect un-thinking moment, I just started to really TRY to get what I wanted that I soon realized that that's all SHE wanted.
X, it's all about action, not trying to figure out how your actions are being taken. It's not about chess, it's about passion.
I don't know if any of you watch the new TV show Jericho but there was something VERY interesting on it last week. It wasn't anything new but it did illustrate something we all know to be true in these kinds of sitches, whether there was an OM/OW or not.
One of the characters on the show is a man who seems to be some kind of government agent. Anyway, he left his family to go do some mysterious thing for a few years. In this episode, he finds out his wife had an affair. He confronts her. She says "Why did you come back? I found a man who made me feel good about myself because of how he looked at me. Now I just have you, looking at me like...THAT." as he stares at her coldly.
The point is that while we all agree (I think) that the DB idea of taking responsibility for our own happiness, and some of us who have read Passionate Marriage also understand the concept of not relying on reflected self-image, there is something fundamental and primal about our ability to move someones emotional state by the passion in our eyes, the passion in our movement, and having them know, for sure, that it's all for them.
X, I think your W may just want to know that you're willing to risk everything and DO something without the safety net of understanding, or THINKING you understand what the outcome may be.
Before a couple weeks ago, I had NEVER, and I really mean that, NEVER just put myself out there, confidently expressing my desire/passion for my W the way I did. I would always try to figure out if she was in the mood or not, etc, never once just expressing how I felt, not because I wanted to make sure to entice her to ML with me, but because I really felt that way and wanted to express it. Sure, I DID want to ML, but what difference did that make, I wanted to do that for the past year with no luck.
X, I can't tell you HOW to do what you need to do, but I do believe that I discovered that I have the power to, well, for lack of better term, seduce my W, and I know that is something I never believed I could do. I always thought sex was on her terms, by her rules and her timing. I was wrong.
X, you don't have to be a cave-man, nor particularly "alpha" about all this, you just have to be willing to abandon some of this hyper-thinking you are doing and just act out of pure feeling. I know that's scary as hell and totally unpredictable but WTH.
IMHO (women, back me up on this...or not) most women don't like chess as much as they like direct, passionate action.
X, take your arm, sweep the board and all the pieces off the table and throw your W down on it, kissing her passionately as you do...or at least tell her you want to do that, lol!
I've never been accused of thinking too much. NOT!!!
I don't know how to respond to this because any response would be thinking :-)
But in thinking about it I can see the logic. My thinking about it so much while it may have served me well in some respects is just more of the same.
So in being respectful to your very thoughtful and non thought provoking (eerrrr that's hard) post. I'll keep my reply short and just figure out how to do it.
oh and yes I've read passionate marriage. It was the first book I read on R's. Didn't get me anywhere with my wife though. Actually my using it to prove my point got me in deeper.
So you've learned how to seduce your wife. It seems I need to learn to seduce mine.
A starting point. A few weeks ago when my wife was told by her T to go and buy "The Dance of Anger" She did purchase it but along with it she bought "Outlander". The book is a romance novel based in the ancient Scottish Highlands.
Although she is nearly incapable of reading a 200 page self help book or a leadership book or any book about anything she professes she wants to read about, she can read this 619 page romance novel in a couple of days. She's actually done it in a weekend. The autobiography of Rudolph Guliana took her about 6 months and is about half the length or so.
This should have been a clue!!! (Banging head on desk)
Before we were married she'd read the Dianna Gabaldon series and keep me up to date on the happenings in the romance novel. I even read one myself because she was so interested in them.
I just got onto the official site and I see the next in the series has just come out. Maybe this is opportunity for me.
Any Diana Gabaldon fans out there? Any women tell me what is so romantic about Jaime?
If you fantasized about Jaime, what would be the perfect romantic fantasy night? Ideas. Am I on a good path here?
What shows passion. My wife is very passionate about Jaime. Why?
Now here's a strange coincidence. And me thinking too much. Jaime Fraser is the main character of the series. For the past three weeks my wife has been insistent that we watch the series "Fraser" every night. It's the only thing we watch. Then afterwards she reads the book series about Jaime Fraser. Just strange.
Doing a bit of research. Amazing reading the reviews of Diana Gabaldon's work.
Incredible reviews from women, terrible reviews from men. And a whole lot of them. It seems every woman who reads this is in love with Jaime.
This review, and many others caught my attention
Quote: If you did not cry at least once while reading this book you should consider visiting a doctor. You might be dead. This book contains the exact right amount of historical info, love, passion, fear, excitement, humour and everything else which one could ever want from an epic novel. Everyone here goes on about the "inappropriate" violence in the novel, but come on! Everything can't be written to suit 12 year-olds! And imagine reading 300 pages of non-stop cuddling and romance. Would that be any better? I can recommend this novel to anyone in the world who still believes that true love survives everything.
So knowing my wife I know these things about her that fit into liking this
Warriors- Hey look at what we do for a living. Mysticism- In my position people sometimes like to believe I have some kind of magical powers. wierd I know but some of the things a good martial artist can do seem magical although they are rooted in very real but not obvious technique. Way back when my wife liked to ascribe these things to me. There mystery
Passion- Well I'm definetely passionate. Just trying to learn to apply it to the right places.
Sounds like it's not all cuddly wuddly and stuff. More of an aggressive romp in the hay. Long ago my wife was very sexually aggressive.
A better day today. It's a Wonder what sleep will do for you. I've been pretty sleep deprived for the last week and hence to weakness in my own head.
Last night I did a little experiment. We went to dinner. I chose a nice place. Very romantic. I told myself I was not going to talk about work, as a matter of fact I'm going to try not to talk. See if I can get her to carry the whole conversation. So we had drinks in the bar and a long meal. 2-3 hours. And I kept her talking the whole time. I just showed interest and asked a pertinent question when she stopped talking.
So in thinking about all the above suggestions I've come to the conclusion that they are all right.
Yes, what do I have to lose by making a move. Yes I feel I'll get turned down. But GH's statement that anything else is really not an attempt. It's a weak kind of neediness I guess. Not throwing myself out there.
So it'll get done.
Althea, yep, evey bit that I argue against who she wants to be, even if it's an internal argument with myself, is just that, an argument. And it can only be destructive. Gotta give it up. And I have in a way told my wife I plan on it.
Making a move would follow two db rules. Do something different, and asking for what I want.
But first I decided to break stasis a bit with a funny move. Last night I kissed her goodnight, grabbed my blankets and pillows and plopped down on the couch to go to sleep. It was a suggestion by Bj, and not exactly what she meant, but hey it's something. The couch is a long L shape. Long enough for us to sleep end to end.
She asked what I was doing and I said "I would rather sleep there on the couch than alone in the bed. This is better" and I layed down and went to sleep. I could hear the rolling of the eyes and the flabbergasted expressions but I just went to sleep.
It was physically uncomfortable but I discovered that the physical discomfort was far better then the normal emotional discomfort of waking in the middle of the night to an empty bed. A few crooks in my neck but oh well.
Well it's something different huh.
Things were obviously a little different this morning. We'll see.
Ridiculous as hell both of us sleeping on the couch with a perfectly comfortable bed nearby.
You're thinking again, but it seems like a good thing, although not too different from what you've been doing recently (trying to figure out what makes her tick).
The bottom line to DB is very simple (ok, this is like my 1000th DB bottom line, but THIS one fits your sitch, lol); You were what made her tick in the beginning and you got lost along the way. Figuring out what makes her tick should have a whole lot to do with figuring out what used to make YOU tick. Sure, people change, but again, DB seems to be founded on the principal that there was love and passion in the beginning and somewhere it got lost in the shuffle.
I hope you made your move and let's hear what happened. No matter what, you had to have learned something that mere thinking probably would not have taught you.
