Arguement sex can be a wonderful thing when it comes to drawing you near each other physically.
It doesn't hurt to tell her what you really want to do to her sexually either. Be explicit and expose your dirty Manly mind to her. You know what you want to do to her, so don't be shy in letting her know.
Although towards the end, my W and had problems communicating after or before sex, we never had issues communicating during sex. If you get the opportunity, talk dirty to her during sex, they love it. Be the freak in bed you know you want to be.
We can be sexually aggressive because it just feels natural to us. Don't be afraid to express your sexuality to her. We are dirty rotten horn dogs so stop trying to suppress it.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
So wonderful...that you wrote what you did...I agree with both of you...Ian, you're absolutely right, enough with all this manly stuff...we all know Luke is doing what he feels is right for his M. When he doubts himself, he tries another approach...he knows his wife better than anyone here.
Luke, what happened to your cat? Did it get hit by a car? I'm a cat lover myself, I have quite a few...
I'm glad you'll be here for your b-day...then onto a new age bracket...lol, lol...
Ian, I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, my prayers and thoughts go out to you and your family.
Ian asked me to throw my hat in the ring Luke - hope you don't mind. To be honest, I'm not up to date on your thread so I'll stick to the discussion of "being a man". In my opinion, being a man can mean several things. Let's face it, there are all types of men...just like there are all type of people - a$$hole's included. I think the real question is, what type of man does your W want you to be and are you comfortable being that type of man for her? Frank D is fantastic and giving advice on this - I would jump over to read up on some of his stuff. Personally, my W swears up and down that she wants to be a strong independent person but I know a part of her wants a strong man to almost, at times, take charge and tell her what she needs to do.
So what does she want Luke? Does she want you to be a rock (strong but quite)? Does she want you to be compassionate and listen (caring and soothing)? Does she want you to speak your mind (strong but open)? It does sound as thought it may be the third option to some degree but again I don't really know your sitch. She may want you to take more of a stand and express your emotions - not in a crying, sad way - but in a stonger affirmative way. If so - are you comfortable being that person? If not then you need to try and meet somewhere in the middle.
Not sure if you have read the 5 Love Languages book (if not, you should) but think of it in that regard. There are a lot of ways to show someone you love them and there are a lot of ways to be a man. However you have to know what type of man your wife wants you to be and then, if you can, be that man. That said, you will probably at different times have to be all those things. For example, just because my W's love language may be Affirmation doesn't mean I don't buy her a present on Mother's Day. Make sense?
L, so glad you're getting all this input. I just have Two comments: First, about talking dirty to her during sex...--Not all women like that, and even those who do, don't ALWAYS want to hear it. We vary quite a bit more. In fact I read somewhere that women vary far more than men do sexually, which makes it all the more difficult for you guys. But again, we do NOT all like the dirty talk before during or after. Some of us do, some of the time. But I do believe we ALL want to feel desired, on many levels.
If you are really unsure about your course of action, and the whole chicken or the egg thing comes up again about who goes first, ("how can I show her I want her if I don't know she desires me?" etc.), means to me you want to KNOW her answer before you "ask" the question. There aren't any guarantees. But isn't that the down side of being a guy in these matters? I can tell you the other side is being female and wanting or being ready to, ML and then not want to make the firsst move b/c you don't want the guy to think you are promiscuous. (Obviously just referrrig to dating and not inside a M). Sorry, but I thnk the burden of desire and pursuit is on the man, imho. I know that is sexist (I AM sexist...if it's convenient...isn't everyone?) and maybe unfair. But remember when you dated her, weren't you the one to make the first move?
I recall my H making moves when we dated and I remember saying "no" b/c I wasn't ready, etc. He didn't seem rejected, he just backed off and waited--not very long I might add--but it was exploratory on his part. We communicated back and forth physically and verbally, re: timing, feeling "love" etc. BUT I never felt pressure in the negative or unsafe sense, as I had felt with some guys who scare you b/c they don't take no for an answer. That can really be frightening. But my H did take no for an answer, and then later would "ask" again. Obviously the answer was yes, eventually. Truth be told, since he was respecting my answers, I liked the pursuit.
ONE suggestion re: making a "pass" at your wife is to keep it light AND passionate. You can playfullly tease her, compliment her sexually or about her beauty, and perhaps LEAVE it at that. ( EX. "are you wearing that to make me crazy?"... "I love it when you say/do that, but you already knew didn't you?" "It's hard for me to concentrate on"""" -(whatever it is you are doing)--""when you look soooo damn good""""" And etc.)...and making a comment such as "loving it when she does/says that..." is often really funny when used with a totally UNsexual matter. Like for instance, if she finds the missing remote control--"NOW THAT IS SOOO SEXY" or... after if she unintentionally slams a drawer/door shut, (not ON YOU) you could say "well, I see that now we're alone and you have trapped me....."
It's just a way she can Know you want her AT LEAST IN PART b/c she IS SEXY and Desirable, not just out of need for reassurance on your part, or bieng horny, etc. ..
It's about showing her you feel genuine (dare I say it, "manly"?) sexual desire for her, as well as loving desire.
If you use humor it feels safer and the "rejection" can be more easily blown off if it happens. But these are just ideas I'm throwing out.
You'll have opened the door, and all she needs to do is walk thru it. From MY POV, Your w is lucky to have a man like you. But we all need reminders of that or none of us would be here. wishing you good things-
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Good advice. You know 25years, I got to thinking about your comment about NOT all woman liking dirty talk.
It was probably inaccurate on my part to say that. What I should have said is there ARE woman out there ( my types) that like dirty talk, experiment and see if your W is one on them. In my experience it makes them feel desirable and uninhibited. Also, dirty talk can be light and humorous as well.
It's wrong of me to assume my type of Woman fits the mold of all types. Sorry for that generalization. I stand corrected. Thanks!
Also, your absolutely correct that the "burden of desire and pursuit is on the man". It's not a sexes view, it's an evolutionary truth. The burden comes with rejection and how we handle that will determine our future success not only with our spouses, but in all life pursuits. Failure is our teacher.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
wth???? IT IS MY BIrthday (well, the 4th was)!!! Luke, well, hmmmmmmm isn't this significant? Almost like the X-files.... I had a good one, H sent 2 dozen roses (UNPRECEDENTED) and I have not opened the boxes he left since he won't be here for another week. Yeah, it sucks that he is still so far away. But these are baby steps and sometimes they seem to be more like "toddler steps" these days....crossing my fingers and hoping you had a good day....or a day that did not suck???? Happy belated b-day. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hola Sofaraway, Astimegoeson, 12102006, swashy and especially 25yearsmlc (and everyone else),
Thank you for the unexpected birthday wishes - great to have a bunch of friends out there - most appreciated.
Happy belated birthday, 25yearsmlc, you are the only other person I’ve met with the same birthday. Congratulations on getting roses – I envy you – what a nice present for a birthday.
Well, we have two significant events behind us now - our annual Christmas party, this time with 45 people (and we cooked and served it all ourselves, in a completely chaotic, crowded kitchen), and my birthday, just with the family, and quiet. The party had the usual stressful buildup (my W gets crabby and bossy pre-party, somebody you don't particularly want to be with), and the guests showed up before I could change, but that turned out for the good, as I went from sloppy cooking clothes to a full formal black and white tux. According to my W, the entrance was effective (though I just came downstairs again), so racked a small brownie point there. We'd cooked for four or five days, frozen a bunch of stuff, and actually managed to get it on the buffet more or less warm (always a weak point for us). The guests seemed to appreciate it, the Swedish folk music violin group we'd booked played nicely, and the pinata for the kids held together for long enough before breaking to build suspense and satisfy the kids. All in all a good party - my W says the best yet. In a DB context, she mentioned wanting to buy another cake server, so it sounds like there may be another party someday, and we may have a future, at least on that front.
The birthday was low key - we all had to work all day and so first celebrated at dinner. There was a small group of presents (my wife had found a book on antique Japanese money giving envelopes, just down my line, my daughter had written poems, my son had nice wooden cups). For the first time, though, my wife didnt' embrace or kiss me, nothing physical at all then, so it felt empty on that front. Her tone was soft and nice enough (and has been softer over the last months) - maybe that will have to do, baby steps.
Tonight I proposed watching a video, but it was late, so she took a rain check. Not a negative response, at least. Maybe that will be the way forward, a few videos at home together, when the kids are tucked into bed, and then a real date after Christmas, when things are quieter (and our friends have time to watch the kids).
Sofaraway, thank you for the point about standing up in arguments. I didn’t back down in a discussion today about relocating the TV antenna, though my nature is to avoid confrontation. She seems to need confrontation – which I don’t really understand - maybe there is softness and harmony afterwards? I’ll try and work that angle, for which I should have many opportunities, given how testy she can be (a component of this is her losing respect for me, and that should be one way to gain some back).
As for the cat, he hurt himself on something, and had a clean 4 inch cut on his haunch, weirdly not bleeding. He got stitched up on Thursday night, and had the stitches out today, healing nicely. We learned to buy cat health insurance – this relatively minor thing cost a pretty penny – hopefully it won’t be needed.
Hello from a dark and rainy Sweden, sinuous reflections on the water - Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Hey LL, sounds like 2 great events for you. So how did she react when you took a stance in the antenna conversation? Did she fly off the handle or show you some signs of respect because you didnt back down? Keep at it, stand up for what you feel, as long as you do it in the right way for you, she will slowly grow comfortable with how confrontations between you two can be compromise. Thats a very good thing.
Her taking a raincheck on the movie night is also a good sign, it's definitely not a no. Sounds like overall you are doing good. I bet the Tux was a great moment for you, always nice when the S recognizes that you looked sharp
