Quote: It just amazes me how we all have these expectations of how our S's s/b - we need to let them be whomever "they" choose to be...but we don't.
I'm guilty of that in some respects. I did have certain expectations of what a Wife should be that I know now was wrong. Sometimes I didn't accept her for herself and I can't for the life of me understand why. I fell in love with her in the first place because of who she was.
I never thought of her as a possession though and I was never the jealous type to tell her what to wear or not wear. That's controlling and if the shoe where on the other foot and she tried to control me like that, I would have bolted a long time ago.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
I think we all do...that's why we are here...we get too comfortable with ourselves, then we start dancing a power play game...do it my way.
Don't get me wrong...I still love my XH, but I'm smart enough to know that b/c of that, I had to let him go. I'm strong, confident, but I was a little unsure when we M., I wasn't sure what my role was...now I do.
That is interesting 1210.. He would use your "looks " to promote his business... but ignore them other wise ? Wacky !What model of automobile was he selling ? Anyway.. Hello ?? Assistance needed elsewhere !!
The Porsches...Carerras, Targas...tennis outfits were for the Audis...yep, I was the "girl".
He was so defensive, he had an idea of what I s/b, but my parents didn't raise a dummy. I was raised to be independent and not to lean on anyone for validation.
It was funny, when I went away to college, he would drive up every two weeks to see me...my mother called him, which I never knew, until we were M, and told him that I needed to finish my schooling and not convince me to come home. She said you can always get M, but you will never return to school; if you get D, where will you be w/o education? She was right....
Well.. those are all nice looking cars.. but your mom was absolutely right of course ! Tennis tops , Targa tops and convertibles are one thing.. but life goals and being able to do for yourself... well that is another ! Please see Troy.. btw..
glad to see Ian is here as he is wise and knows what the heck "manly" means, or at least I think he does. As an outspoken woman considered to have a strong personality, i chose a H with a strong personality as well. He challenged me and was not threatened by my intelligence. But I didn't choose my kind, gentle other boyfriend altough we rarely fought. Something was missing. I chose H b/c I wanted to feel safe/protected, and like the female of the species....don't tell my feminist friends, please. We've had conflicts galore, and problems, or I wouldn't be here. But we've also had 25 years of a M that has had a lot of passion in it, and is turning around from the edge of the cliff anyhow.
Just saying that when a woman says she wants to feel strength from her H, she MEANS it...and physical desire is one sign, as is passion, and setting boundaries....I don't know how you could think the M was fine without sex for so long and she MUST have felt soooo undesired...seriously. I know it's more complicated, but then again, why is it so complex? We want to feel wanted, in more ways than one, but DEFINITELY sexually.
the good news is that she even bothered to tell you what she needed from you. the bad news is that you seem to have taken a long time to react to those expressed needs of hers...I'm sorry you are in so much pain,
but Lose the Ghandi approach if she's telling you what she is telling you...And this does NOT mean to be a jerk, as you've also read here.
Surely, IAN--Someone Male out there---explain as only a man can, the difference between being an as----- in the name of masculinity, and being a "MAN".... it isn't that extreme, and it isn't really about power to me.
L, your wife wants you to be Her man, show her how much that matters to you by figuring out what that means, or ask her for examples, unless that seems too UNmanly. DO what it takes, and I'm sending good thoughts/prayers your way.
good luck, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Have a great time tonight on your date with your W. I hope she comes through on your birthday, I'm sure she will.
Have a great party Sunday...enjoy yourself, mingle...I know it will be successful.
You didn't say where you're going this time...back to the states? If so, post and tell us how everything went...you know, you are "The Man"...keep going, my friend...
Wow, how nice to have all of you in on this thread - thanks a bunch for all your comments. One in particular struck me, namely the one about being a man. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that she wants a strong man, her man, as she is very strong herself (marathon runner, enjoys competitive sailing, best in her Swedish class, dominant in conversations, etc.) I am not particularly competitive (though I enjoy a competitive run, but more for the fun of the event), but could imagine running a marathon as a slap in the face of father time, before I turn 50 next December. She asked a while ago whether I was in training for one after I sneaked off again to weightlift. So the physically strong side is hopefully okay.
The more difficult thing is the personality part - what is a strong man in personality? Does it mean having conflicts? If so, about what (remember she said I never fight back)? That must sound stupid - it does on rereading -.
Any input on this front would be wonderful to have. She did tell me to say exactly what I believe, even if it offends people dear to you; I usually adapt to the situation and hold back. Is there a course in 'being a man'?
So she wants a guy who desires her sexually - well, I do and think she is beautiful - but my desire is very much a matter of her wanting me too, a chicken and egg deal. I mean, it sure would be nice to have her next to me in bed again, but she never touches me anymore (and she left our bed, not me). How do I signal that I still desire her? Tell her - no - that is dweebish - make a pass, touch her a bit longer than needed ?
Our date tonight got rescheduled - I both could not get the babysitter I had wanted and more importantly, one of our cats got injured last night, so we were at the hospital till late, and wound up instead tonight together just talking and preparing for the party. She glued paper feathers on a paper mache bird, and I made meatballs. The conversation was fine except for when she once objected to me using aluminum foil, which I threw away after cooking, instead using an unlined pan and then washing the pan out afterwards instead. I didn't think it was worth fighting about, but it did make me somewhat mad. In retrospect she was right, washing the pan was easier and didn't waste foil, but maybe I should have showed my anger (I stopped talking for a while after - is that enough showing anger?)
So the date will have to wait, which now seems possible as I may not need to go to the States after all in the next weeks. Our evenings together at home are pleasant and are progress forward - we didn't use to spend so much time just talking evenings in the last months. Maybe it is the pressure of the party and both of us having preparations to make for it, but the fact is we do spend time more together, which is maybe a good warmup to a real date. I'll choose to see it that way.
Thanks for all the good party wishes - (I took up cooking, by the way, as a way to keep myself busy during the first difficult time after she had left our bed. I thought it was good to contribute to the household (won't be accused of not helping with the housework) and we have to eat in any case, so why hot have fun and relax cooking?) It is nice to have the kitchen be mostly my domain, instead of the house being an expression of only her).
Anyway - wonderful to hear from you - the party is coming together and I'll report on that -
(sitting on the floor with a sewed-up cat on my legs, who is trying to get his funnel shaped lick preventer off, going on midnight)
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Quote: Surely, IAN--Someone Male out there---explain as only a man can, the difference between being an as----- in the name of masculinity, and being a "MAN".... it isn't that extreme, and it isn't really about power to me.
Well you know me 25, i dont back down from a challenge. LL, I also read your last post here so thats why I decided to go ahead and address this issue. Look, all this talk about what it means to be a man is very odd. IMHO it is defined within you. I can sit here and spew off all the ramblings of a secure male and talk about how I am able to express emotions and show my softer side. I can tell you that you dont have to yell and scream or beat anyone to show that you are a man. Thats all good and well, but the bottom line is that at almost 50 years old, you already know how.
Show your wife compassion, show her the real you, show her that you are secure enough to be emotional. You dont have to fight with her, you do have to be honest though. If she says something you disagree with or that upsets you, then tell her. In a nice way, tell her how it makes you feel. If it gets heated, that is up to you how far you take it. In reading about you I dont imagine you would take it too far. I would also say that you need to not bottle up, no that doesnt show that you are upset, it shows that you cannot trust your wife enough to express yourself. Quiet is not the answer, you can express anger without being angry.
I was also thinking about what you said about wanting her to want you. Let me just throw this out there and you do with it what you think you need to do. Your W keeps asking for you to take a stand, get upset, show her something she is needing to see, challenge her. Well give it a shot my man, give her what she is asking for. Next time she upsets you, let her have it emotionally, let her know that what she said or did hurt you and why, even let yourself get upset a bit externally and see if maybe that will stimulate her Sex Drive a little. Arguement sex can be a wonderful thing when it comes to drawing you near each other physically.
So anyway, bottom line is this, you being a man is about you and how you want to do it. Personally I think you are doing a great job already. Work on that being silent thing and open yourself up a little, but otherwise you have already shown her that you are more of a man then most others would be by standing by her and showing the incredible perseverance that you have show. You should be an inspiration to these guys that get on here and comlain after 3 months that its not better or fixed. I personally can tell you that I draw strength from seeing that there is another man on here who knows that he should stick with it until his mind and heart tell him to stop. I say good on you LL, good on you.
