My wife has been having a very infrequent affair (he lives in another country) affair, which I discovered after a note she gave me in June had a love letter to him written on the back. I am not sure this 'mistake' was intentional, but it well could be. As you can imagine, this was a major downer, but maybe offers an opening for dialog.
I'd like to get some advice on whether you think it would be good to confront her about this. Do you think a confrontation would be productive, and bring us closer or be just another step on the road to the bitter end? Just before we got married she had a one night stand, which I walked in and then immediately out on, and the overall effect was positive, with her begging for forgiveness later that day and us being married 20 years.
She said last time we really talked that she wants a stronger me - perhaps a confrontation offers such a chance? I could say that an affair is neither fair nor okay with me, but then can't see what to say after - that she should move out (which I don;t want)? That divorce is the only option now? It would be great to drain her negative feelings.
We have not shared a bed or touched in 2-1/2 years, but still have pleasant enough talks and still live together (with our 2 kids, 8 and 12). The LRT - my constant refrain - says never to have relationship talks, be easy and cheerful, make no demands, all of which speak against a confrontation. Which is right? How can I show her a 'stronger' me when arguments are not 'easy'?
Another piece to this puzzle was a new book that recently turned up on my daughter's bedside chair ('Amber Brown wants extra credit') whose goal is to make kids comfortable with the idea of a new boyfriend for a divorced mom. Is this yet another message, like the note? If so, how should I respond? I am tempted to refuse to read the book to my daughter on the grounds that it is a 'girls' book' that my wife should read.
My wife leaves for Germany tomorrow (where OM lives) for maybe 5 days; I'll try and surprise her with something while she is gone, something to make her proud (she is a proud person). My tempation is to counterbalance the confrontation - caused by the note that I find while cleaning my office in her absence - (quite possibly a negative event) with something positive (the pride thing). Maybe instead of books this Christmas I'll take her clothes shopping and tell her how beautiful she is then, which she is.
Lots of questions - most grateful for any answers or advice - greetings from a foggy Scandinavia -
Lucky Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
I think if you want to show her a stronger you, start by setting some boundaries. first one could be "no sleeping with other people". thats a very reasonable request.
you don't have to have a major showdown, I'd just let her know that you know and she needs to end it, then start working on whats going wrong in your marriage.
to me, letting it go on will just eat you inside. thats no way to live.
Regarding stronger you and boundaries I completely agree w/ford. It would eat me inside as well. I know, been there. But then I'm not the best DBer around here.
BTW, I'm German, and not all of them do this!
But I have another question. If You and W haven't been intimate in more than 2 years, don't you think there is something missing? Not only for your W. Is there anything to get the intimacy back, or certain reasons that prevent it from coming back (besides the A of course!)?
I concur, you need to confront her, not an ultimatum, not out of anger or in a judgmental tone. Calmly let her know your aware of the affair and you are not OK with it. Let her know you love her and want to work this out and that you will patiently wait while She makes her decision, but that you are not willing to be second best to any Man. To this point, She doesn't really have any motivation to even think about stopping the affair and working on her marriage, this dimension at the very least needs to be introduced.
How could a Woman expect a Man to stand up for her if he's not willing to stand up to her? It shows your not weak and willing to make a stand on your principals. So what if you loose in the short term (she leaves)? She will respect your character in the long run and that's probably the best you can hope for at this point.
If She's going to walk out on you, she'll do it whether you confront her or not. If what you say about your lack of intimacy for so long is true, then you need to get the ball rolling now if you expect to save your marriage.
Every situation is different and you ultimately have to decide for yourself what to do or not do. I don't know all the variables in your situation. I'm just giving you advice based on the pain that I've gone through. I've done things wrong and I've done things correctly. I can say that confronting my W was the first step in enabling us to at least communicate about our marriage and the issues involved. You will discover a little more openness on her part once she knows you are aware of her affair. You will actually discover a lot of things about your W you never even thought of once you get her to open up to you. You have to remove the secrecy and really start to re-discover your W.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
It was great to hear from you, thank you kindly. It was also great that you all agreed, as it removed my uncertainty about what to do (nothing like a clear decision...).
My wife left for Germany just a bit ago and so I have time to put a plan into action. She often complains about how messy my office is (we both mostly work at home, apart from occasional foreign trips), so I'll give it a deep makeover and 'happen to find' the note in doing so.
Is there something more to be said after that I am not okay with her having an affair? Or do I simply say she needs to figure things out, and leave it open ended?
ford, I completely agree that setting this boundary will show a stronger me, thanks for making that clear. A friend of mine, who has also had a pile of marital troubles, but is now back together with his wife, says they often fight now but the marriage is actually better (he doesn't understand why she needs to fight, but that is another question). We hardly ever fought - I am not wound that way - but maybe should? Maybe fighting is setting or at least stating boundaries and leads to respect?
EvolvingMe, you ask a good question about what else is wrong in our marriage. Perhaps it is exactly this not fighting - if my wife needs to feel emotions, then my low key, Gandhi type conflict avoiding approach may be fundamentally unsatisfying to her. She is a freelance graphic designer, impulsive, easily angered, has a thrill seeking personality, and maybe needs this pushback? I am a rational engineer, basically reliable, boring? Even though we go on family trips to interesting places together (Japan last Easter)?
Astimegoeson, thank you for pointing out how to confront her and for the words 'not willing to be second best to any man'. I feel so emotional about this that your turn of phrase is very helpful.
She is gone for at least 5 days now - confrontation next week - will keep you posted -
Thanks again,
LuckyLuke
ps. is there anything you guys want my 1 or 2 cents on, for whatever they are worth?
pps. what should I do about the kids' book given to my daughter (which is about a girl learning to accept a boyfriend for her newly divorced mother)? It seems unfair that I, who do not want or believe in divorce, should be reading this to her (and my 8 year old daughter thinks family is very important).
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Luke,
What about sitting down with her to discuss your R. Give her a chance to "confess". Tell her you are concerned about the last couple of years (lack of intimacy) and want to work towards changing that sitch. You could bring up the "Amber Brown" book and inquire as to why your daughter would be reading this? I'm not big on confronting and demanding without trying to go through the back door first BUT I could be wrong. Friends used to ask me whether I thought my W was having an A with her "friend" and I would say "I don't know, what does it matter, either way I've got work to do to save the M. It's the same work, A or not" Maybe, I just didn't want to know so my sitch was dif. You know now and that is a big burden to carry around. My concern is that ultimatums too early can just destroy any chance of working on the M. Again, what do I know, but I'll be devil's advocate here. It would appear your M sucks and has for a long time. There's much that can be done. Is a confrontation and ultimatum the way to go here? I guess, only you can know what works best for you. But make that decision based on logic and not hurt emotion. Thaaaaaat's all folks!
Just for the record, I am presently considering making an ultimatum myself, so I am not completely opposed to the idea, I'm just uncomfortable with it being a first choice.
Thanks for your suggestions. Yeah, ultimatums do have an awful win or lose character about them, but I think that Astimegoeson is right, in that if strength is what she wants, then a straight out telling her the limits of what I will accept is good, strong medicine. I think/hope the ultimatum character of the oonfrontation can be avoided by saying 'you should think carefully about this' and not 'you must choose'. I would also like to rather see this as more of a door to dialog and improved (any) intimacy, then as a make or break it deal.
I also think that after 2-1/2 years of no sex and very little physical contact (just one year of abandonment is sufficient grounds for a divorce in NY state) then this tactic probably isn't too early and maybe exactly what is needed to get things opening up, even if the outcome is negative. Perhaps she even wants it, and the note was intended to be found and the book intended to be read.
I also hope that the carrot/stick approach (carrot = I finally get my act together and really clean my office, which she often complains about, plus I've just started weightlifting again, reforming my sedentary body; stick = the confrontation) will be more successful than a straightforward, head-on attack. I also believe that there is at least some future, as she talks about the various parties we will have until Christmas and what she'll plant next year in the garden.
The ultimatum doesn't need to be delivered in anger (though this would be awful easy) - rather it could be a plain vanilla statement of what is okay, by my rules, and what is not. I am not clear though, on what actions I should take after - do we stop talking? do I ask her to eat dinner separately?
She said that 1) she felt trapped in our marriage (so I let her go to Germany, even encourage it and got her an airline ticket to Japan, where she will be working next month) 2) that I was not strong enough, in particular in character (the confrontation will hopefully help here) and that 3) she wanted to finish fixing up our house, get a regular job and get out. I am trying to help her with the house and the job; it would feel like too much of a dishrag to help her with moving.
I think there is always virtue in trying something new if the old stuff doesn't work, even though [censored] says you should agree with whatever your spouse says or does, and smile. If she doesn't respect me, then maybe this is a way.
Windless night in Sweden - streetlights shining on the water -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
"My wife left for Germany just a bit ago and so I have time to put a plan into action. She often complains about how messy my office is (we both mostly work at home, apart from occasional foreign trips), so I'll give it a deep makeover and 'happen to find' the note in doing so."
I know I would be honest. I agree with Whatisis though that you should sit down and try to let her confess. However Lying about finding the note is not good either. Just be honest with her and then let it sink in for a while. I am not one for giving advice due to my own sitch so some one can correct me if I am wrong. I have always bee the honest and straight forward one.
Ben 32 STBXW 29 3 kids (D1,S4,SD8) (1 dog 5months) Status: Fighting for the Kids.
"The only thing we know about future developments is that they will develope."
I am sorry to hear about your separation - it must be painful. Sometimes I think that all this hard feeling DB is just a prelude to the really difficult stuff - now that he/she finally is physically back, how do we rebuild a good relationship? But healing the separation comes first of course.
Yes, I agree and think that honesty is better, and now instead will let her draw her own conclusions (she will see a clean office, with all the papers gone, and maybe - admittedly erroneously - think I found it then) instead of saying that I found it while she was gone.
I think the confrontation will have two parts - her confession/opening up and my reaction. Both parts are important, but the second in particular concerns me. I could just walk away in disgust and not say anything or tell her it might be better for her to move out or simply say that sleeping around is not alright with me. In any case, I want to be reasonably true to myself, make her respect me a bit more if possible, and also simply shift things away from the current emotionless stasis.
What do you think an appropriate reaction should be? Saying it is not alright with me has the virture of being open ended, with unclear consequences. Do you think the conversation will have other parts? Is there anything else important to say? Is the game plan incomplete?
By the way, on a somewhat humorous note, I am also of German extraction (first generation American, from German parents) - maybe my wife has a weak spot there -
Good luck with your sitch.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
