Re Lostgal Really thanks for being critical of me a couple days ago. Which post LG? I hope I came across as helpful, not condescending or judgmental.
Wow, New colors on the forum layout, or does my computer have a virus?
MC appointment #1: 1. Basic information exchanged;
2. Our biggest problems were given a once over.
3. MC has no formal psychology training. C promotes himself, not as a C, but a friend with biblical outlook on life. All his work is based on 5 years of study and many years of helping couples resolve differences using biblical principals and relationships models. I think he said he is working with 30 or 40 couples right now. He was an insurance salesman earning over $100K a year, had a near death experience several years ago and now works for the church, along with 5 other ministers.
From what I see and hear, the church does lots of non-religious work for the community.
4. We have to agree to use to use his marriage seminar booklet he wrote, which includes information from the Bible, "The "Five Love Languages", and other books with a biblical inspiration.
5. He told me that his requirements and my beliefs might not work for me because I told him I needed to see things work IRL before I can move forward.
BB said her beliefs coincide with his, but she didn't see the need for any man to be in charge of the R, that women sometimes had better sense and were entitled to get what they wanted, something like the control topic Cobra brought up and Corri responded to.
In summary, I was farther apart on his spiritual beliefs but more in line with how a R plays out while BB believes more in line with spiritual part, but isn't in agreement with how R's play out in the day to day world. Anyway, I am going to proceed with an open mind and also be aware of not doing some things that seem radical.
Back to work and painting windows for me. Sunny day, hence the window cleaning and some forgotten painting.
Give the 5LL a chance. There are Biblical references, but nothing that can't be understood by all.
If you can work together on it. That would be great! I have my 'issues' with the woman submitting to the man in the relationship too. I don't have a problem with the man being the leader IF there's a togetherness not the possessiveness of the historic religions or some of the religions we're seeing in other places in the world.
Strive for that "working together" not serving each independently. 5LL should work well IF the both of you do it together, not taking passages and fingerpointing.
Pls post here often describing your experiences. [[[hugs]]]
Quote: MC has no formal psychology training. C promotes himself, not as a C, but a friend with biblical outlook on life. All his work is based on 5 years of study and many years of helping couples resolve differences using biblical principals and relationships models.
The first church BB got involved in also had a pastor that had a near death experience. Then he got religion big time.
I was not educated in the inner workings of some church leaders so took what this pastor said as the way to move forward with our life, in and out of the church. The pastor had charisma and confidence, but his charm had holes that eventually showed up a couple of years later.
Things got worse in and out of church and we eventually left. This happened the same time I had my back surgery so I am not blaming everything on the church (30 members)or pastor at the time.
I heard several years later after he moved, this former pastor with charisma, started hanging out in bars and he was killed by gun fire.
New Friend. I know someone that is a good insurance salesman has the gift of convincing OP to see the advantages of a program.
The good part is the churches reputation and works done in the community are well known. The second good thing, I wasn't getting very far doing this alone.
I borrowed "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida from the library and read 50 pages so far.
Some of the readings are spot on but other parts of the book must be for someone not like me.
Anyway, as in other books I take what is useful/doable for me at the time. No one book can be for all people at all times in their life. I think that is considered perfectionism or something like that. I know I am not perfect.
Quote: When a woman pushes you away consistently... the male/female polarity is off....
Big time Corri! One of the main problems I am having with our R is BB's pinkness. I can be/do the male part but BB has so many conditions that she wants met, many times the activity or event ends differently than I had envisioned. You know "nice try but no cigar bud."
Quote: I think you are going to have to read the book a few times to get this...
The first reading has been completed. I have to get used to Deida's "code" or writing style.
Quote: Very, very, very interesting book. One of the best I've ever read
Corri, I think it was you that like: “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz: Be impeccable with your word (speak with integrity; say only what you mean); Don’t take anything personally (nothing others do is because of you); Don’t make assumptions (find the courage to ask questions and express what you really want); Always do your best (and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret).
I didn't read “The Four Agreements” but some of the things sound similar.
I have other comments about Deida's book but better read it again.
Quote: It helps me tremendously as a female in finally putting into words what I've always sought, but have never been able to verbalize.
My thoughts are, the Superior Man book is written for men but in female code in some parts. I can see why some women like/understand the book. At one point, I wondered if he also wrote romance novels that women like.
As I was reading parts of the book, I was asking myself what point is he making with this flowery, over emphasized example. Later I read parts where it is written in male-ease, a simple, "say what you mean" style.
Quote: Is it annoying and selfish to "invite" your man to respond, to play, to interact?
No, it isn't Lil.
One way to describe a part of the problem I have in playing the game with BB is I think we are playing baseball and she eliminates or modifies some of the rules of the game, has a list of handicap options so I don't know what is expected, moving bases, moving targets to a minor degree. Then there is the throw Lou a few crumbs.
Quote: Instead of seeing BB as "testing" you in a childish way, look at as an invitation to see how you will interact with her.
Yes, Perception helps Lil.
Quote: And don't forget that sexuality can be very "childish"--
????Childish????? I think BB could play house with me if the the dogs were our pretend children, but playing childish in a sexual mode???? I wonder if that part is broken/worn out with in her.
The more time I invest in the repair the R, the less I expect in a romantic/sexual way. It is becoming more and more a R of responsibility to do the commitment thing and do the least amount of damage.
Quote: remember Transactional Analysis: Each person has within a Parent-Adult-Child. Sex happens when the children play together. Each person needs to be able to let the child out. That's why relating as a Parent to the other's Child (and vice versa) is the death of sexual desire.
I read the book a long time ago and just remember the basics.
I really like the one Deida book I have read (Blue Truth) and the book on DVD that I have listened to. The thing about him is not to overanalyze. What he has to say just resonates with me. It just feels true. It is as if it speaks to the central core of who I am as a woman and when I apply it to my longest running relationships I can see some of the dynamics at work. If I look at my prior M, I can acknowledge that it wasn't just that my ex-H treated me like sh*t, or that he had a substance issue, or even that he had a psychiatric issue. It was that he was willing to throw away what he had espoused as his "life's purpose" for our entire relationship in favor of becoming a perennial "patient." He had weakened in my eyes. When that happened it put his treatment of me in perspective as another example of his own weakness too. Anyway, just my .02 cents. Deida is one of just a few that simply resonate with me on a level that is different than your typical marriage manual where it says, "Guys are guys and women are women, learn the differences and ye shall be happy", it is talking specifically about intimacy and the essence of the two people involved on a level that is about lots more than "Guys need to go into their cave and girls cry a lot." Deida also allows for the times when people don't fit the sterotype - I like that. Good luck with it. I think you have gone a long way toward that kind of style with BB in the last year or so. You are much less prone to bend yourself out of shape to please her test of the day, you have "led" her in the bedroom with some of the PBTS type interactions and you have stopped apologizing for every little thing. Hang in there Lou.
Quote: It was that he was willing to throw away what he had espoused as his "life's purpose"
I am giving up working, doing the retirement thing so I see where I lost some of my direction. Working is one of my ways I feel driven, something like a purpose.
Quote: You are much less prone to bend yourself out of shape to please her test of the day, you have "led" her in the bedroom with some of the PBTS type interactions and you have stopped apologizing for every little thing.
Karen, changing that way has helped some parts of the R. I see where I need to have integrity and be responsible for my feelings. Deida's book is helping me and our R in some ways. I am not sure my "life's purpose" is something BB will see as something she wants or sees as valuable. I still hear too many comments about men being selfish or controlling. I still hear comments that resemble "not good enough."
Yes I tried PBTS. Right now, I don't even feel like continuing those activities. I didn't feel I had a partner that wanted much more than to have her back scratched, and was too tired to feel much of my efforts.
MC appointment #2. We each have to bring a list of complaints and wants.
I haven't started my list. I don't know if the list is to be exchanged or just thrown away and offered in something like prayer session, and ask for changes to be made.
I wish the MC sessions would use something I a sort of familiar with. What ever happens, time moves on.
This does not bode well IMHO. 
One of the main problems I am having with our R is BB's pinkness. I can be/do the male part but BB has so many conditions that she wants met, many times the activity or event ends differently than I had envisioned. You know "nice try but no cigar bud."
Then there is the throw Lou a few crumbs.