LG the book "Resurrecting Sex" explains how sex works or doesn't work. I don't know if it is any help for situations like your H or for people like BB.
The part I am benefiting from the book, is where "holding on to yourself" "using the best in me, not my broken side" and not relying on a "reflected self" what your or how your partner treats you, is useful but doesn't have much to do with sex.
There is a little about ED towards the end of the book, so I would suggest not to look to the book for ideas about priming the attraction pump.
Mostly I found out why things are not happening. Some I can change. Others I can't change, I now have answers to.
Cuz you like the warm water? Is that why you sit there a bit? Sometimes I like warm water but most of the time I think what might happen if everything was working like before the kids arrived.
Really, I sit there hoping something will improve, because I know BB likes to sit there and I don't want to be a spoil-sport. I am sure if I was dating BB and turned her down for a sit in the tub, that would be considered selfish.
When we got our first hot-tub, it was fun to use it. It was a place to connect. The last 3 years, there isn't much two-way connecting done in the tub. Mostly me listening and rubbing her feet.
Re Underdog I've forgiven myself for thinking my way was the only way. How about you? I am gradually getting more comfortable, less guilt. also becoming less attached and less fused, (Schnarch term ) seeing myself and BB more as individuals. I guess I couldn't do that seeing us as a 38 year couple.
The good part is I feel less like I have to fit her mold and now I can take charge in some areas and be a bit more of a leader, emotionally stronger. If BB sees that as controlling, sorry. If she sees it as someone she can depend on, good.
I've forgiven myself for thinking my way was the only way. The more I read, the more I get to know people on different forums, the more I can see there are many ways but also some common things that keep people together.
One of those things that keep people together is, don't let the R get too one sided. Walking on eggshells doesn't help anyone in the long run. Gee, I even learned to give (((hugs)) with out feeling like I am flirting with women. Two years ago if I would have given cyber (((HUGS))), I would have felt like I was betraying BB some way.
I read and post on a forum where there are mostly left behind women, most were married 10, 20, to 40 years. Some of their H's just left to be alone. Some H's left because of an OW. Anyway, the H's seem so much more selfish than Mr.W or it could be the women are hurting so much, that is why they bash their X's. You both have much more class than many D couples.
Mr. W seems to have had an interesting mix of GF's, much more intellectual than I thought when compared to the little I read about his family of origin.
(previous GF) was a broken bird who needed rescuing. I will say, I tend to be attracted to fixer-uppers as Dr Laura calls them.
We had the genetic tests done early on, and the defective gene was traced to me and my family. I wonder if deep down inside he blamed me?
Blame, gee, I don't know. What I see from my POV/they way I think, is maybe 'why us' and the fact most married couples thing something like this won't happen to them. I think some people start to feel un-lucky or start to realise we don't live in a so perfect world. I think that messes with some peoples sense of world view fairness/unfairness mind set. I see people doing fine, so maybe I don't know what most people feel/think. I hear some joyous stories.
I was the interesting person he was ever with. He didn't have one friend who didn't like me--and way back when, he told me that it was the biggest turn on for him. I say, if all my friends like someone and they like my friends, that is a very good sign. Sometimes an outsider can see something an insider can't see.
"It's been 4 years since you've seen the girls on Thanksgiving Day, and I'm feeling something tug at my heart about that." Good for you. i think it will do the extended family some good.
he said quietly, "Wow. It's been that long?" Betsey, my radar said BS, He knew it was that long didn't he. Is he playing "guys are tough, we men don't need those warm fuzzies, those sentimental events?" At times like this I want to e-mail some of the men and women too that are X's, related to posters. But that is meddling. I hear it doesn't work.
I'm seriously thinking of wrestling some control here... I'd like to cook, if only for one reason. I'd like the chance to do something for his dad... something his Mom accused me of not doing for her son/our family when we were still married. I think you should cook, but let him do parts of the meal, like bring pumpkin pie from Costco. Here in MT Costco pies are very good.
If you do part and he contributes I see it as you both being partners in the event.
D9, who is stomping around the house in roller blades. She's scaring the dog witless Good old D9, the life of the party.
I don't blame you for wanting a spouse who doesn't criticize you 75% of the time. I don't know if I am that bad, or BB is that picky, or it is her main way to keep things going.
It used to really bother me, the critical stuff, now I ask like I am dissecting a science project, and taking it less personal. I still have eye-roll moments at times.
Quote: If BB sees that as controlling, sorry. If she sees it as someone she can depend on, good.
Oh yes. The only thing you can do is to make sure that your actions match the intent and however BB wants to interpret is up to her. Good observation.
Quote: Anyway, the H's seem so much more selfish than Mr.W or it could be the women are hurting so much, that is why they bash their X's. You both have much more class than many D couples.
Wow, I take that as a sincere compliment and I thank you for it. Lou, I'm ashamed to admit that my initial urge when he left was to bash the living daylights out of him. But I quickly realized if my intent was truly to reconcile, it would do me grave harm to head down that path. I chose the harder path, but I'm much, MUCH happier for it. I also knew that if I wanted D12 to come out of this in a better spot, I'd better show her how to behave when someone hurts us. D9 also took some maneuvering--she regressed in her toileting back then and I had to do some reassuring to her as well that I would do everything I could possibly do to make it possible for her dad to come home. She still misses him greatly--for that little girl holds no grudges and is ecstatic when she sees her dad.
Mr. W. actually has some very strong selfish tendencies. I think the reason he doesn't act on them most of the time is because he looks over at us and sees our struggles. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body normally, so he will go out of his way to meet me to make sure that the girls and I aren't hurting any more than we already have. Well, to a point. I figured out early on that I'd rather have him in my corner than make an enemy, so that's why we can do what we do. Sometimes it's hard, though.
Quote: Mr. W seems to have had an interesting mix of GF's, much more intellectual than I thought when compared to the little I read about his family of origin.
I had to think about your perception for a minute and then I got it. He and his brother are the most educated on either side of the family. Though neither of his parents held a degree, they were both hard working and placed a high value on education and intellectual pursuits. His dad is a full-blooded Norwegian, and the Scandinavian work ethic flows strong in his blood. Mr. W. and his brother are extremely intelligent. Neither one of them plays up to that--they come from very humble roots. He was pretty much a geek all the way through high school. I got the feeling while reading his yearbooks that half his class wouldn't have passed math without his tutoring. My D12 and I had a good chuckle over the possible image of him being everyone elses godsend. He finished his degree in electrical engineering in 3 years. His former boss told me long ago that he was the smartest, most logical and personable engineer who ever worked for him. As someone who had to monitor reports and turn them into the government, I can also tell you that he writes well (and I can't say that about most engineers).
Like him, I was also a book worm. We shared our outcast past and our desire to overcome geeky images by developing our sense of humor. I honestly can't see him with anyone who can't speak intelligently on a variety of subjects. He's not particularly attracted to ditzy people (which is why his previous GF surprised me).
OTOH, I dated my fair share of dumbasses who could barely put coherent sentences together. They were fun. And I used that presentation to help others overcome their perception of me being a brainy bookworm. My father was eternally grateful the day Mr. Wonderful crossed his threshold. He was desperately fearful that I would marry one of those felons.
Quote: Betsey, my radar said BS, He knew it was that long didn't he. Is he playing "guys are tough, we men don't need those warm fuzzies, those sentimental events?"
Wow, I'm going to consider your comment seriously. I'm sure he remembers that it's been so long since he left, but I'm not so sure he actually allows himself to acknowledge specifics--particularly if they hurt. But you may be dead on right. Thanks.
I love Costco pies! I'll make him bring more than that too. My XH is a fabulous cook. It may be what I miss about him the most! Now, to be fair, he also tells my D12 that he really misses my cooking too. So when I send him home with leftovers that I no longer want, he's VERY appreciative. He had dinner with my parents this past Sunday when he was in DC. Apparently, they've given each other new names... what used to be daddy-in-law and sonny-in-law are now daddy-outlaw and sonny-outlaw. They both seem pretty pleased with their humor. Anyway, my parents told me that it was really wonderful to have some time with him--and he told me that he felt the same way. My best friend came over for awhile too. I can only think that all the love he gets from them hurts in a nice way. It must be hard.
Quote: If you do part and he contributes I see it as you both being partners in the event.
Sigh. Yes. That is true.
Quote: It used to really bother me, the critical stuff, now I ask like I am dissecting a science project, and taking it less personal. I still have eye-roll moments at times.
Lou, I see bits and pieces of BB in my mom and vice versa. And I'm sure if I met BB in church or through some other community activity, I'd like her. She sounds like a person who has no idea how much fear she's dragging around. All that rejection, negating, criticism, stinking thinking tells me that her self chatter is equally deriding. You're probably right that she won't be changing unless it's her idea. I know that possibility pleases you none... (((((Lou)))))
The only thing you can do is to change yourself, and I think you're doing a marvelous job. The fact that you find it worthwhile speaks volumes about you, Lou. You've got a big heart. And BTW, I don't know if I commented, but your wedding pictures warmed my heart. You look like a really kind man. BB and your daughter are gorgeous.
At the end of every day, I ask God to change what's in my heart. It seems to be the only way I let go of my own stubborn thoughts. God works miracles, but only if I invite Him to do so. I've not been so good about that in the past, so I'm committed to doing better in the future.
It's good that you're detaching from her behavior. The more I travel this road, the more I'm convinced that little in life has to do with me.
I'll probably be back, but since it's supposed to start snowing after lunch, I'm going to get some work done in case I need to leave early. I had to crate the dog, and I'm feeling guilty about the long day. The girls and I are on fall break next week, so I've got to make sure I'm completely caught up before I walk out of here today. We'll see how I fare. In the meantime, I hope you have a fabulous Friday, Lou.
Hugs,
Betsey
p.s. How far are you from Bozeman?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Lou & Betsy, I can't tell you how much I admire your attitudes in your current situations. You're both wonderful, caring people. You deserve all the happiness the world has to offer!!! Jill
Re Underdog I figured out early on that I'd rather have him in my corner than make an enemy, so that's why we can do what we do. Sometimes it's hard, though. Tough/hard/difficult, yes.
But what you two are doing is helping your kids beyond what some couples are willing to do. At'a girl's, and at'a boy's to both of you.
I had to think about your perception for a minute and then I got it.........they come from very humble roots.......I can also tell you that he writes well.....
I admit, I didn't know this about Mr. and his family. I thought and read some place, someone in his family had limited social skills, was self centered, had the idea other people should do things their way, and that caused Mr. W to be closed minded/lacking in the ability to ask for how he wanted the M to progress. But with so many stories on the forums I read, I might not have gotten all the information in your posts correct, or mixed in someone else's information and pinned it on Mr. W. Sorry if I didn't get all the info right.
He's not particularly attracted to ditzy people (which is why his previous GF surprised me). That goes along with what I thought he was like, the ditzy part, or the inability to express himself. I thought it was due to some FOO (family of origin) issues. Once again my assumptions were wrong.
OTOH, I dated my fair share of dumb-asses Betsey, I think young people have that problem. After all, they don't have their own sense of a firm identity and are trying on different hats to see how it feels.
I hear some young people even say "With her looks, why is she going out with a pizza delivery guy. I hear more young guys say a girls good looks or intellectual abilities scares them off mostly because the guys don't think they are good enough, smart enough, or can keep the girl entertained, long term.
The guys think (exaggeration coming) because a girl is intelligent or extremely good looking, they have to be a Donald Trump Jr. to keep a girl like that.
Of course there are the opposite type of guys, going for the most attractive girl and he wants her to support him.
Does Mr W think you are or want something above his capacity to fulfill, or is he, was he wanting to avoid doing what it takes to continue an average marriage. IE he doesn't have the skills or the R is too costly in some way to him to continue in one household. That is mostly a question for you to think about, not answer.
Some where in my random thoughts there might be some things that apply to your situation. Maybe nothing applies.
So when I send him home with leftovers that I no longer want, he's VERY appreciative I read that in a book. It works.
what used to be daddy-in-law and sonny-in-law are now daddy-outlaw and sonny-outlaw. They both seem pretty pleased with their humor. Anyway, my parents told me that it was really wonderful to have some time with him--and he told me that he felt the same way Humor must be working. It's good to see the bonds are still strong.
I can only think that all the love he gets from them hurts in a nice way. It must be hard. Oh, (((Betsy))). If other couple could see something like this before they break up, life would be so much better. I do think it hurts in a nice way.
And BTW, I don't know if I commented, but your wedding pictures warmed my heart.
I posted them to show people the stability we had in our M, IE BB and I and D25 at the time, getting married in the same spot. I don't know many people that get M'ed in the same town, let alone the same spot.
I also did it so people could put a real face on their cyber friends.
Another reason I posted the pictures was to let younger posters see that once you get to/past a certain age, the work of keeping a M or R going doesn't disappear.
Sometimes I am embarrassed to post because I think at our age, we should have all or most of the R and M stuff worked out. We do and we don't, so if what I post helps someone now or 30 years from now, good.
I have learned that making things look good or worse than they are doesn't help me or someone else as much as it could, compared with laying things on the line.
I don't spill out everything that goes on in my mind or in our R, especially things that haven't happened for a long time, as I think some things would be considered betrayal or vindictive.
About What Is: Anyway, I took pictures of my shop and showed them to my IC. BB said she couldn't do something like that. I say let the proper people know the good and the bad. Making believe something is better or worse than it is, makes the recovery process take longer.
Bets, thanks for the compliment concerning the picture. That was 1995, At D's wedding, just in case someone thinks it was recently. That picture compared to now??? mostly more gray hair.
I'll probably be back, but since it's supposed to start snowing after lunch, You guys get more snow than Billings. I live close to Billings, in the dryer part of the area. Stop by the IHOP near the I90, King Ave/exit 446, almost any Sunday at 2:30. I will buy you lunch, AARP discount and all.
You take care too Betsey. You seem to have a fuller plate of activities and responsibilities. You seem to have a lot of talents. So many in fact, I often wonder why you and Mr.W aren't together more. Maybe I watched "Cinderella" to often with the grand kids.
I am gradually giving up customers. I don't know if you will retire before me. I do know you will retire at an earlier age. YTGG.
The offer for IHOP is open to you too. Bring your D or ???? if you come.
I have read some of greekgodes's thread and see you (mother instincts) visit Jo often. She is PG again, who would have thought given her story a year ago.
Lou, I have 5 weeks left til I retire!!! I'm excited but nervous. My income won't go down much, but what to do with my time? I've been offered some part time jobs and may take one of them in a few months. I'll actually get to do something fun and meet some new people!!!
If I ever get to Montana, you're on for breakfast!!!!
As for GG....who'd have thought??? I'm glad that she seems happy and more stable these days. She's a great gal!!!
I doubt that I'd think any less today than from photos 10 years ago. A little more gray? Puh-lease. Men look more distinguished.
Jill, you tell me when you want to hook up on I-90. We'll storm Lou's IHOP together!
Lou, 2 of Mr. W's aunts live off that exit. A few more a couple exits down. I'd really like to make a trip up that way to see my former inlaws. My route still takes me through Billings. It's just one long drive from Denver.
Take care and hope you're having a great weekend.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey. Good to see you and blackfoot posting. He has some very good advice and a fresh way to look at R's and people. You are in good company with him and reading both of your ideas would be a worth while investment of time and thought to many readers.
IHOP 2:30 10/22/2006????? See you there. Look for 3 guys and 2 gals, AARP style, in the NE corner.
Mr. W's aunts live off that exit They do???? Small world some times, isn't it??
Really thanks for being critical of me a couple days ago. Its just that its been soo very long, I'm burning out. That vicious circle Cobra talked about with the passion of angry resistance.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
the life of the party. 
My D12 and I had a good chuckle over the possible image of him being everyone elses godsend. He finished his degree in electrical engineering in 3 years. His former boss told me long ago that he was the smartest, most logical and personable engineer who ever worked for him. As someone who had to monitor reports and turn them into the government, I can also tell you that he writes well (and I can't say that about most engineers).
Betsey
She is PG again, who would have thought given her story a year ago. 