Absolutely right, Muddle. My W not only expects I feed her but that I know when she needs fed and what she wants to eat and how much! It's totally out there, I know. It's hard for us not to "feed" into it sometimes. Why do we? Because we are good, caring H's wanting to do our part in the R. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the other person isn't doing much of anything because we're so busy working our butts off to comply. Our S's are out screwing around and that is their contribution! My point to my W was just what you said basically, "I am not a mindreader, and never will be" I told her "sometimes I may know what you need but other times I'll need to be told" That was not acceptable and this is why, in her words, she went elsewhere to meet her needs. So in a way its dealing with a form of insanity, a complete lack of any connection with the real world of R's. Her OP can be so attentive because the real world has no bearing on their R together. So weird, anyway I won't rant on your thread any longer! I'm moving on, maybe to bed for a few winks before the kids get home. God, I'm bushed today.
Will post to you soon, Muddle. Just wanted to check in with you as I think about you and S4 and hope you both are well, in the middle of your Storm in a Teacup. Need a little more sleep under my belt and I should be able to rally to post coherent thoughts. Thank you for always checking in with me, I appreciate you guys.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Storm in a teacup, I like that! Well, the weather has been all over the place this weekend. On Friday, W and I had a conversation. Started with W trying to start a fight with me (about what, I can't really remember right now) and escalated. I told her I didn't want to talk, that the conversation was over and that I was walking out of the room. She blocked the doorway and physical stopped me from leaving. She started banging on my chest and pushing me. She was getting angrier and angrier that I wouldn't comply with her. Eventually I opened up to hearing her out, and we had a REALLY good talk. We talked about what gets in between us when we talk, about how we (from my POV) bring our own insecurities into play and make the slightest conflict into something much bigger than it actually is. She brought up some examples of situations that really make her upset (we were grocery shopping and I stepped about 10 feet down the isle away from her without telling her and then after she said something about this, at the checkout, I put 95% of the stuff in the cart on the conveyor belt and then walked around the cart to start bagging without telling her) and I acknowledged her feelings. The more I live this situation, the more I see that she thinks she needs someone to anticipate everything that's going to make her feel inadequate or insecure and eliminate it for her so she doesn't have to go through it. Anyway, during this talk she felt heard and I was able to point out places where I felt that I was bringing my insecurities into play and jumping to conclusions and feeling slighted over things that were not intended. I got a hug initiated by my W for the first time in many, many months.
I was almost pissed at this turn of events. I have been closed to the situation recently. I know that things will not get better, if at all possible, for a long time. My W needs to grow a lot, as do I, but she has a really long way to go before she is capable of having a healthy relationship. But that hug felt good. The positive attention felt good. I woke up in the middle of the night longing for her. It made me angry to want her - to yield my personal power to her when I know I don't want to be where I am right now.
Yesterday was my brothers' birthday. W wanted to make them dinner, as she has done every year for some time. She had her friend help her (because I think she needed to have an ally there with her) and my mother wasn't excited about her being there, nor were my brothers. It went over really well (I made a nice cake - decorated it really nicely too!). Well, there were a couple of issues - my family never come to the table when called, and this was no exception. This pisses W off, but what can you do? We left with S4 practically a puddle of Jello, and didn't get a chance to go out for a drink with my brothers afterwards. Anyway, this morning, W was telling me that she had a bad night. She was really annoyed and upset that my parents didn't make things happen faster regarding starting dinner, and she faulted me for not doing something to make it happen faster. I told her that nothing I could do would change anything. She picked at the evening for a while, pointing out all sorts of things that frustrated her about the experience. She even admitted that because her friend was there, they fed off of each other's bad energy. She said if she had been there without her friend, she wouldn't have had as much of an issue about the evening. Profound. Anyway, the point for me was that she's (and her friend too) got this idea that she knows what the right way to act is, and if people stray from what she thinks is right, then they are wrong. She felt frustrated, so my family should have changed to fix her feelings. That's the theme to me.
So, later last night, W's friend (who also happens to be the XGF of my brother) went out with my brothers for drinks. W got a call this afternoon that my brothers were saying things about my W. W was really upset, saying things like "I'm going to look like the bad guy in all of this" and "It doesn't matter that I made them dinner, they still talk about me like I'm trash." I could really get the story from her, and when she told me about it she was sitting at the computer IMing. It was a little difficult to give her any sympathy, or even try and hear her out while she was there. I wanted to even say something to her like: "It's difficult to comfort you while you're cheating on me" and other comments about how she's cheating, and that's wrong no matter how you look at it, so yes, she's going to be looked at like she's doing something wrong. Really silly and frustrating.
Basically, I'm fed up with the situation and I truly feel like I am losing respect for my W. I still think there may be a chance for things to work out, and that conversation the other night was proof that we can see eye to eye and address our issues, so we could do it if we both wanted to. So, I've got some real cognitive dissonance here. I don't want to think about making things work, or about trying, or about hope any more, because basically I'm my future now. I'm having a difficult time, though, emotionally. This afternoon, she went to take a shower and asked me to talk to her while she got undressed and then while she was standing in the shower. It really makes me somewhat sick now when I think about her in a sexual way. I desire her, but I also start thinking about all of this internal conflict I have, and about my cousin, and about my W's emotional reality, that I'm not there. I don't understand why she would want me in there while she's naked, but a part of me thinks she's trying to maintain power over me, and giving me a reason to want her keeps me hanging on. The trouble is that because of the connection and hope produced as a result of the conversation on Friday and the shower scene, I have gotten these renewed pangs of pain. It's like the knife was pushed in a little more deeply. Despite the fact that I know better, I'm still allowing myself to reattach to her and the situation at every opportunity. I'm sure it's normal to do so to some degree, but it drives me nuts.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Great job, Muddle. You didn't let your emotions get you when she started getting physical. It ended in something worth the effort. I think it only goes to show that your R can be worked out BUT only if and when she is ready to take responsibility and GROW UP! You aren't perfect and probably a real pain in the ass sometimes and so is she. That is part of a R! What is it that these WAS's spouses don't get about that? If it ain't perfect, walk away Lastly, detaching is, I think, a state of mind that comes and goes (we're only human). The more we detach the better for us and the sitch as a whole but I also think it's good to keep letting those feelings touch us again once in a while too!
So, another week begins. This week I have a lot on my plate - a lot that I'm looking forward to doing. I have been trying to get beyond some issues with my sitch, mainly my problem with being in an unhealthy relationship, and how absurd it is that I'm trying to save such an unhealthy relationship. I keep thinking that to some degree I need to do for my W what she expects of me, fulfill what she thinks are her needs. I view the primary needs that she seems to think are most important as personal needs that she should be fulfilling in herself, because having them fulfilled in a relationship are bandaids rather than real fulfillment. It would be empty to have someone else provide you with a substitute for real self esteem and personal satisfaction. Furthermore, it's unfair to ask someone else to shoulder that burden. So, now in order to get to the point where we might work things out, either I bend over even further backwards to accomodate her personal issues and try and rescue her from herself, or I step aside and wait on the sidelines while she continues to develop this bond with my cousin - something that she's sure to regret in the future because it will cause nothing but tormented pain - and allow her to disrespect me by cheating on me in my own home. She has this double standard regarding respect - she talks about how I disrespect her while she's doing the most disrespectful thing she can possibly do to her husband. Any respect she gets is a gift, not something that she's entitled to nor something she's earned. I don't know if I'm earning her respect, since she's trying to disrespect me, I'm sure she's not in a place to respect me. I don't know if she could ever forgive herself enough to respect me again. My brother told me last night that he thinks she'll never give me the respect I deserve. He might be right. I might be selling myself short here, but this time's not wasted. Now is not the time to make a decision about my M. We're not in it. I'm becoming a better person day after day. This time is not wasted. . . .
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
yes, Muddle, it takes a sane mind to ask "what the hell am I doing here!" If you weren't asking that sometimes I'd really wonder about you. Take the best you can from each day and remember, your sitch isn't your whole life. At church on Sunday the speaker said "Honor yourself for all that you are and all that you have done" Makes sense doesn't it. We spend too much time dishonoring ourselves by dwelling on our faults and mistakes etc. these sitch's tend to do that to you. Good to see you fighting back.
You're going to eat your words, Whatis. I just got into it with my W. She asked me if I was going to file abandonment charges and lock her out of our home if she were to go to Europe to see my cousin. I told her that I wouldn't be that vindictive, but that I would have to ask her to find another place to live. She became quite upset and started yelling at me. I reminded her that S4 was in the next room, and that she should keep her voice down. She didn't comply, in fact she got louder and louder. I started whispering in response to her, and still she escalated. S4 started telling us to be quiet, and to stop from the next room. I told W we were done and I was leaving. She got upset and grabbed a hold of me, trying to physically prevent me from leaving. I told her that this was not good for S4. She said "I don't care." I told her to let me go, that we could talk about this at a later time when S4 was asleep so he wouldn't be exposed to this. She refused, still yelling at me. She started to scratch me and kick me. S4 walked into the room as she punched me in the jaw. I told her I was going to file a police report and picked up the phone. She grabbed S4 and he was saying things like "daddy, go away" and she threw in "and don't come back" and he repeated it. I told her that I was serious that I would file a report if she lays a hand on me again. She told me that I was making her act like this.
I am at my wits end. This is unreal - she will expose our son to this. I am really upset and don't know where to turn. I have composed a letter to send to her parents, hopefully they can help somehow. There has to be consequences for her actions, because this is totally unacceptable. It's toxic, and it's polluting our son. I also think that documenting the event in an email will be good for any legal situation that might develop.
Let me know your thoughts.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
ugggh...wow it is getting bad. You need to do something to protect yourself and your children. You should have filed a police report and start documenting some of this. It may be best to physically separate...it seems your situation keeps rolling further downhill. By not taking any action you are enabling her to get further out of control. It seems each episode escalates...be very careful...as much as you think you know someone you never know what someone is capable of.
At some point I am not sure what you can do? Once it gets this bad it is very for me to envision it getting better or back to a healthy happy marriage...I am sure there are people on here that have done it but it is just hard to imagine. How can so much anger and hurt feelings ever be healed? How can you ever see your wife the same way? I do not mean to be a downer but these are some of the same things I deal with and I just do not see a way I could ever get past some of the hurt.
"Friendship is like peeing your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel the true warmth."
Muddle, I am so, so sorry for what has happened. Your W has assaulted you 3 x this week, if my count is correct. This is an unsafe situation for all involved. Call a lawyer NOW! Get the info you need, it's now imperative. I would consider laying charges, especially if there is bruising which may be evidence. Find out your options quickly. Your W is unable to control herself and needs someone to do it for her, that may be the cops. Again, so sorry and do what you must to keep your son and yourself safe. Keep us posted.
I have been documenting things in a journal. I also sent an email to my in-laws asking for their assistance and also documenting what transpired here. I know I should have filed a police report - next time I certainly will - but I think she deserves the chance to look at herself and her actions without having legal consequences. It's her last chance, as far as I'm concerned.
As for my marriage, at the present moment, I'm not really concerned about it. She's in lala-land - crazy - as far as I know. If she gets help - I mean really gets help to the point where she can be a responsible person, it would be the best outcome if we could remain married. At this point, it's toxic for everyone.
She called me not too long ago and said she was sorry. I thanked her and then she said "aren't you going to say sorry to me?" I told her goodbye. I have nothing to apologize for. I acted appropriately. We had a difference of opinion and she screamed and yelled. I was speaking at a normal volume. Nothing wrong with disagreeing or talking - screaming, yelling, hitting, scratching and kicking is another story.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
into it sometimes. Why do we? Because we are good, caring H's wanting to do our part in the R. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the other person isn't doing much of anything because we're so busy working our butts off to comply. Our S's are out screwing around and that is their contribution! My point to my W was just what you said basically, "I am not a mindreader, and never will be" I told her "sometimes I may know what you need but other times I'll need to be told" That was not acceptable and this is why, in her words, she went elsewhere to meet her needs. So in a way its dealing with a form of insanity, a complete lack of any connection with the real world of R's. Her OP can be so attentive because the real world has no bearing on their R together. So weird, anyway I won't rant on your thread any longer! I'm moving on, maybe to bed for a few winks before the kids get home. God, I'm bushed today. 
Lastly, detaching is, I think, a state of mind that comes and goes (we're only human). The more we detach the better for us and the sitch as a whole but I also think it's good to keep letting those feelings touch us again once in a while too! 