Muddle's Waters IV

[whatisis]

Muddle, in no way did I mean you must agree with your W's criticisms. Why would you in most cases? To validate just means to acknowledge what she's feeling by showing understanding and empathy e.g. it must be very hard for you to feel I am not listening to you, that would be really frustrating". That's not saying that you agree with her just that you acknowledge what it must feel like to be her. That's it. Next step, "What can I do that would make you feel listened to". Again, you don't have to agree! Hell, my W says I have poor listening skills. Imagine what it must be like to hear that the skills you use to make a living are considered "poor" by your S! But, hey, tht's my world. I think you just have to let her have her say and really make her feel that you are hearing what is behind the words. Don't defend, explain, deflect just listen. All that stuff hasn't really changed things so far so why not change it. Is it easy? No way. Can it pay off? I believe so. You CAN do this Muddle, you CAN!!! You're a smart guy who is willing to look at things and make change, how can you lose?

[believing_isaiah43]

Hey Muddle, I've been away from the BB for a few days and posts abound here! I really could relate to this:

Interactions have been better with W, but I feel like there's something between us, a huge waterfall of negativity - black water. We can only catch glimses of the true being on the other side and are tempted to believe the image we see through the negative screen.

I could have written that myself. May slap it up on the blog.
That is so true here in my house. Our MC says that we have a composite view of our H/W over the course of the M that doesn't change much with time. We look at our H/W thru the filter of our composite. If something I do p*sses H off, he thinks of me ALWAYS doing it even if I've changed and have only done said 'thing' once in the last 6 months. And vice-versa. We look for/give more weight to the negative things and there needs to be so many more positive to outweigh them. Seems impossible, I know. But that's a perspective to mull over for you.

Hope you have a good weekend. Will check in soon.

[MuddleThrough]

Ok, well, it was an interesting weekend. I have some momentum, and it's not all good. First off, I have to admit that I acted in a way that I'm not proud of. I let my emotions get the better of me and actually acted on it this time instead of letting things roll off of me. I had a conversation with my W's friend, the one that's involved in this, on Saturday night. I was a bit drunk, but with it enough. She confronted me about why I resented her. I told her I didn't resent her, but rather her involvement in the situation. She then started trying to get me to be specific, to which I was somewhat evasive. I think my telling her that her choice to be involved in this situation bothers me is enough, but apparently she wanted to tell me where I was wrong. She then was trying to tell me where I was wrong in the situation etc, and that I should just accept things - but for the way the two of them see them. Anyway, she calls W the next day and tells her all about this, no doubt framing it in such a way as it fits into their agenda. She told my W that I said I thought she (the friend) was manipulating W and that if she weren't involved, this affair wouldn't have gone this far. I know I said nothing of the sort, in fact I'm pretty sure I said the opposite, that I don't blame her because nobody controls my W but herself, even if they do influence her. W was angry about this and we were talking about it. Basically, I told her that I don't understand what the two of them want from me. I am not fighting the separation/divorce, so I don't understand where the fight is. I told her friend, and told W that I said this, that I don't appreciate that her friend is being adversarial in this situation and contributing to this vibe when all I want is a harmonious resolution to the situation. I accept that we're done.

Well, wife got annoyed with me - I mean she was pretty heated throughout the discussion, but she got annoyed that I used the word "absolutely" and told me that if I used it again she was going to kick me in the face. Well, I think I wanted to test her subconsciously and said it again. She put her foot on my face and pushed. This broke something in me. It is so symbolic of the crap that I have taken for the past nine months, and even the miserable side of our relationship for years. The total lack of respect for my boundaries and for me. I asked her if she wanted me to spit in her face. She told me yes she would. So I told her if she kept talking I would do it. She did, I did. I think I called her a piece of $hit. She got extremely angry. Started swinging at me. I did my best to protect myself and then left the room. I later appologized for contributing to the situation to which she responded that I created the situation and it was all my fault.

Well, this is kind of a final straw for me. I acted in a way that I never wanted to - I really don't want to act on my anger. I blame her for not respecting my boundaries (and this is a big issue in our relationship that I want to get to later), but it was my choice to express my anger the way I did. The amount of abuse (yes, physical too) I have taken because of her anger, and this is the worst I have acted - that's not too bad.

I have really come to see one of the more major problems in our relationship is that of the controller-compliant personality combination. My W is very controlling and does so through manipulation and just outward controlling mechanisms. I want to appease her and keep her happy by doing for her or giving her what she wants. This is done at the expense of my boundaries, which she doesn't respect. She also feels that I'm responsible for what lies within her boundaries, which is why she can make such a good case for herself why I destroyed this marriage because I didn't make her happy. Well, I have really come to realize through this that, as the quote in my signature says, a problem can not be solved utilizing the same thinking as it was created with. In this case, doing everything I can to change for my W would be giving in to her controlling desires, which is more of the same. This is what I have been doing for years. It didn't work. I can't change to make her happy, I have to do right by myself. Right now that means moving on. I'm sorry to my S, but it takes two to make a marriage. I can't fix something that the other person is not willing to address with me, and that at its core is this harmful dynamic. I need to move on and become strong on my own. I need to nurture myself - because in this situation, I have been not been able to do this. I have torn myself down in an effort to find flaws, and now I need to build myself back up in a way that makes sense to me, and makes me the strong, secure, happy, healthy person I need to be for my sake and my son's. I hope at some point my W turns around and is in a place where she can address these issues in herself, her need to control others to make herself feel better, and for a time I will keep the door open for her. We both need to be in a state where we can begin healing, and we're not there, and as long as this situation stays this way, and she can blame me for everything, it isn't likely that we will get there. I'm not concerned with blame, because I know I contributed to our issues, but the reality is that we can't make any progress in our relationship where we are now - it just maintains this horrible picture in its current state.

So, I'm done, I'm comfortable with moving on and I have no regrets. I tried my best, at all times I have had the best interests of my family in mind. I may not have executed perfectly what I intended to, but I did what I could. Hopefully things will change, but I'm really letting go now. I think I need to do the walking away, because she clearly can't do it on her own, and I don't want to keep her prisoner. I'm a bit ashamed of my actions, but they symbolize to me just how far down this hole I'm allowing myself to accompany my W. All for the sake of something good - something that now is far from good. I'm prolonging this bad by being involved at all. Sad, really sad, but there will be better ahead. Much better.

[grasshopper]

Muddle, I am convinced that each of us, or at least those of us that really try (and that's just about all of us here) know where our line is. It's different for all of us but suffice it to say it's probably MUCH different than your average Joe for whom the line is cheating. For us, we accepted that and made every effort to move past it, into that nether-land of examining the relationship behind the veil of infidelity. This is a TERRIBLY difficult thing to do and many of us pay a steep price for our self-examination, in addition to the already unbearable toll taken by our WAS's and their affairs.

We decide, through our reading of DR/DB, other relationship books and the support of the great people here, to stick things out, learn about ourselves and in the process, try to save our marriage.

After choosing to do all that, it's natural to keep riding the wave of emotions until the very last minute. It's natural to keep paddling back out into the set of waves for the chance to catch that perfect wave that will lead to the promise of a renewed relationship with the one we love but at a certain point, the waves die and we're left floating on a stick of foam, wood and glass, surrounded by miles of ocean and sharks circling below our dangling feet.

It becomes pretty clear at that point that the day's session is over and it's time to call it a day. Does that mean we won't go back out again? Nope, but it does mean we're not stupid enough to just sit in still water expecting a perfect wave to emerge on the horizon.

You KNOW when you've had enough. You know when it's time to paddle back in and dry off for awhile.

You KNOW you've given it your all but no amount of wishing, technique or experience is going to manufacture the wave to surf on and in our sitches, the R is the wave and our spouses are mother nature, lending the right conditions that allow us to display our skills.

You are a much different man than when you started all this and the fact is that she hasn't either see that, or stopped to care. She is on her path and until she decides to change that, you probably won't move forward very much.

You KNOW when you've had enough and the fact that you have the understanding of yourself AND this kind of sitch to know it doesn't mean the end is testament to your growth.

This is just another stop on the road. Do what you have to do here and make sure you take care of you. Don't allow yourself to be part of a sitch that you don't want to be. Set your boundaries and establish your own way of living, with or without her approval.

I think you will do find Muddle. I have always had faith in you. I just think it's time you showed her you have faith in yourself by just living up to your standards, not down to hers.

Do what your soul tells you to.

GH

[SRTogacihC]

Wow...and I thought I had a tough weekend. Hang in there. Always hard when they push your buttons and are begging for conflict. You can only take it for so long.

Your last paragraph states it perfectly...now really believe in it and execute you plan.

[whatisis]

So sorry to hear this, Muddle! Yes, it is now time to call it a day. Again, that doesn't mean quit but lay low and do what you must do to keep yourself sane and keep violence out of your family situation. Anytime violence starts to happen that is a big STOP sign. Maybe for now it is time to say goodbye and move on with life. There will always be another day if you want there to be, but this isn't it. Do what you feel best. My thoughts are with you, guy.

[MCWaterDog]

Muddle,

I occasionally read your thread and I think I may have written you something a long time ago.

I am very, very sorry to see things are where they are for you, but now that they are, I want to recommend that you consult a family law attorney immediately. Don't walk, run.

There are things you can and should do to protect yourself, your son, and your relationship with your son, and a good attorney can tell you what all these things are.

Another thing I want to warn you about is any hint of physical violence between you and your wife, because that could be the basis for a "kick-out" order that sends you packing.

If all your posts are true, and I'm sure they are, then you almost certainly need a chiropractor from bending over backwards so far to accomodate your wife's irrational behavior and mood-swings. Enough is enough.

Continue to be respectful towards your wife, but be firm now, too. You are headed for some real tough times, but if you proceed with caution, dignity, and good counsel, you and your son will get through this.

Whether you and your wife ever get back together remains to be seen, but the situation is just way too toxic for you and your son to continue in this vein, and, who knows, maybe this will finally be the motivating factor your wife needs to clean up her act and get help for her sick behavior.

I can't remember what you have said about the custody of your son, but given your wife's apparent emotional problems, for his sake, you should seriously consider demanding that you be the primary parent.

I also strongly recommend that you discuss with your attorney being the one to file for divorce and not wait around for your wife to do so.

I wish you the best.

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks for your support, as always. I have been struggling with the blame/responsibility thing for some time, always feeling that as long as I took responsibility for my part, my W would eventually pick up her end. This hasn't happened, and it's clear that my W will never be satisfied with me and my part in things until I make her life all better. I think I will be throwing the responsibility for her life squarely onto her shoulders. She needs to grow - as do I - but I got into this mess by being a rescuer to a controller. She's got someone else to rescue her now. She's got to fail again at that, I guess, before she realizes that the path she's on wont ever lead to her happiness. I think she's moving in a good direction for her regarding her fulfilling herself, working on starting a business, etc, but I can't be a part of a relationship where I'm being forced to be someone I'm not. It's not healthy for me, nor for my W.

I want to be part of a union where we encourage and acknowledge the growth of the other, not blame them for our own failure.

Right now, I need to focus on developing myself into a solid person, and I need to do so out of love for myself and my life, not because my W is demanding I do so because I'm not good enough. I know I am, and I don't need to constantly hear that I'm not. I have done what I could to change, maybe not enough to make a difference, but it's pretty clear to me that no matter what I do, it won't change my W's mind. I have started a process with an open mind, trying to become a better person as a result of this process - not necessarily become more of who my W wants me to be - and I think I have succeeded in this. I am engaged in a process that I know I will continue with in my life. I now have to entirely detach. No more wishing or hoping. No more looking at my W sleeping and wishing I could cuddle up with her.

I think on some level I didn't want to make the changes that my W would have wanted - both because they violated the boundaries of who I am, and also because my happiness is limited by this relationship. This is something that can change, if the structure of our relationship does change. I am still open to working through our issues, but only if we are both in it. I can't convince my W it's worth trying. I can't tempt her to stay. All of that has worked against me. I realize that I should have left her months ago. I should have initiated a separation because she has now convinced herself (she told me recently that she was "very confused" in the first several months) that our relationship is better over. Had I left her she would have questioned and possibly had enough reason to turn back towards me. Now there's so much misery in our recent history that neither one of us is likely to turn towards each other any time soon in a loving way. I intend to be as loving as I can be whenever I have the opportunity, but I will be very careful to secure my boundaries. I don't belong to her anymore, I am my own - and I am responsible to myself and my son. I will still be around, because I think there is a lot to learn from you all, even if my motivation has changed. Thanks again to everyone here.

[whatisis]

The physical violence aspect really makes it imperative that you back off. Leaving is probably the best option for all involved at this point. No more alcohol, Muddle! Not that you are a violent person but the booze helped you get into a position where you were no longer able to just walk away. The previous poster is right too. My lawyer told me that even the slightest brush going through the door can result in one S barring the other legally from access to the home. Get up, go to work, come home, NO HOME! Be careful now. Your W is not a well person and there is no reasoning ability right now. Her moods dictate her actions. See the lawyer, for you and your son.
P.S. I also want to thank you for taking the time to post on my thread, with what you are going through that means alot to me.

[believing_isaiah43]

I am sorry that it's come to this, but sometimes it takes something so dramatic to see the picture clearly. Yes, you should have left months ago perhaps, but months ago you still were trying to keep the boat afloat. But this boat needs to be drydocked a while. Can you tell it's late and I am a walking metaphor? I am thinking of you Muddle, you are a good man, you are a thoughtful caring person and things are going to work out as they should. But you owe it to yourself - and especially your son - to live in a heathly and safe environment. Get a lawyer on the phone and let us know what they say.