This is the debate we have inside ourselves. How do I detach (and "detach" has different actions attached to it for each of us) but still be engaged? Will she see my detachment as a lack of interest or will that space give her the time to recognize my true value as a S? Who the heck knows! We do know that our attachment efforts have been worth sh*t, so what choice do we have. Maybe its still the cheeseless tunnel thing, "showing how much I care is the right thing to do so maybe I should continue to show how much I care until she gets it cuz IT IS the right thing to do!" I know I play with that one myself a lot! How can I show love if I'm fully OK with not having love? But, on the other hand, showing love IN THE WAYS I HAVE CHOSEN is not getting love in return. Detachment to me is taking care of myself cuz I can't keep going if I'm making a mess of myself. Who the heck wants to come back to a pathetic emotional vegetable? You write,"Speaking about detachment, I sometimes wonder if this is counter to our objectives here because when we choose to detach it gives our spouses who have been detaching or are detached already some relief. They aren't aware of the loss of something they were attached to themselves, but rather the relief they feel when they have that freedom." All I can say is that maybe that freedom allows them time to breathe and really examine where they stand rather than forcing them to key on getting rid of us and our bothersome "attachment" antics. I mean think about it, how much patience do you have for the store clerk who can't stop himself from pushing the extended warranty on you, even when you say "STOP, I don't want the damn warranty"! "Well, sir, you should have it because..." Isn't it similar. We're offering our S's something they don't want and no matter how often they tell us they don't want it, we're still selling! All our S's see is that fat commission we're gonna get for ourselves in the end. Once more it is us getting what we want and they see themselves getting the usual zippo! They don't see the upside for themselves in working with us. "Today is your lucky day, dear, give up the OP and you"ll get what you've always got! A guy telling you how wonderful everything really is." Pretty darn appealing isn't it. That is what they see when we're attached. They aren't buying no matter how hard we try to sell it. I don't buy the damn extended warranties either .