The lighting o' the lightbulbs

[OG_Lou]

Re cinemanymph

The last time my H and I ML, a bunch of light bulbs went off for me. My H does not desire me! He wants to assuage his insecurities about being a man. OMG, he wants to use my Os to shore up his masculinity
H doesn't desire you????? Really?????? I bet he does.

Sure, he wants you to have O's. For me it is like hairdog's dark chocolate cake thing. Anyone wants a shared activity to be appreciated. Maybe he is insecure about his masculinity, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to be with you, doesn't love you.

Don't tell anyone, but I have lots of insecurities. I also wish things were lots better between BB and me. I suspect your H is in the same boat.

I haven't given my H an honest opportunity to please me. I have accepted his adolescent bids for sex with a smile, while burying physical revulsion and hiding behind childhood sexual abuse


For the better part of two decades, I thought if I could just get him to marry me, my life would be great.

That is some revelation cinemanymph. I wonder how many other women and men go through this.

I spent a lot of time being unforgiving of my H simply because he wasn't the ex boyfriend. For that I am truly sorry. I don't know if this is something I want to discuss with him.
That is a difficult question to answer. I hope you can keep working through this issue.

could you ask your H if [he] ever felt like you weren't there for him and wondered why? Could you say you wanted something but now decided it was something like a storybook fairytale, and have come to the conclusion there are no glass slippers in life.

I don't feel guilty, I feel sorry
Maybe that is good advice for many of us to follow.

This post has me thinking, how many of our spouses or even the readers don't have a degree of this problem or a similar problem in our R's. I hope you explain a little how/what/why you made the shift to mentally give up the X and what he had that you thought you wanted.

I know that it takes courage and willingness to express my inner self to him. I am in the beginning steps.
I am seeing courage, and willingness in short supply and fear or lack of skills in abundance.

All I can say is bravo for owning the part of the problem that is yours, and seeing it for what it was worth, a hindrance to your [real] relationship you have with your H.

Cyber (((((cinemanymph))))) for now. You know we want the best for you and your H.

Lou

[cinemanymph]

Lou,

Thanks for the (((()))), backatcha, Lou.

I think that there are very few matches made in heaven as far as marriage goes. There are all kinds of reasons for getting married. Mine were, I was approaching 30 and no one had asked me yet, I was afraid no one else would, he was nice to me, he was born and grew in the same community, his parents were still married, his parents were kind to me, he treated his mother like a treasure, he resembled my ex physically and I had dreams of a perfect wedding day. In my defence, I had no idea that none of these reasons had anything to do with actually being married. The models of marriage I had growing up did not prepare me for a lifetime commitment to anyone. I am trying to look to people who have put in the hard work and still are together in a thriving relationship after decades of good and bad times.

My reasons for staying married are much different than the ones I had for getting married. I'm in it now to take the steps to honor the vows I made over a decade ago. I know it's late, and a lot of damage has been done, but I am ready to get in there and do the work required to make ours a marriage that will take us into our golden years together.

I still say that my H still hasn't evolved past seeing my pleasure as a trophy for his sexual prowess. He is only interested in providing me with pleasure to the extent that it feeds his ego. He discounts the effort it takes me to soothe myself when I am deeply uncomfortable with physical contact. This is an issue I plan discussing. I am not saying this about anyone but my H, so please don't think I am making veiled statements about anyone on this board.

What about me? What function does my H's pleasure serve for me? I know the difference between open interaction and just laying there waiting for it to be over. I'm convinced that he feels the difference. It is difficult for me to attain that openess, but I'm getting better at it.

I used to want him to experience the nausea and claustrophobia I experience when we have sex. I have the tools to show him that now, but don't want to. I am afraid that he would stop wanting to have sex out of concern for how it feels for me. I use breathing to get past the physical discomfort and usually end up enjoying myself.

The good feelings slide away so fast. I can't hold on to them. That is why the connection with my ex was something I kept going back to, it was the only time in my life that I could hold on to the good feeling. I can make deep connections with my friends/family and it slides away almost as soon as it happens. It's something I have to work on.

[OG_Lou]

Re CN I am afraid that he would stop wanting to have sex out of concern for how it feels for me
I believe you are right, I know some of the reasons I am not more open with BB are about the same as your intuitions. Is your H like me? I wouldn't say so but we might be a little.

I think that there are very few matches made in heaven as far as marriage goes.
I didn't have the sexual abuse but experienced a fair amount of verbal abuse so I think people like you, me, others, sometimes see what is wrong with a R, more so than someone that had more stability.

BB used to talk about matches made in heaven and "the one for me/her" I never bought in to that line of thinking. I saw how much work it was for my mother to keep things calm in the house when my stepfather blew up.

Mine were, I was approaching 30 and no one had asked me yet, I was afraid no one else would, he was nice to me
I can picture all that Cine.

he was born and grew in the same community, his parents were still married, his parents were kind to me
Same here with BB and me. I went to 28 schools from 1st to 10th grade and BB went to 2. Her parents and whole family treated me better than many of my relatives. It sure sounded better than my life.

I know it's late, and a lot of damage has been done, but I am ready to get in there and do the work required to make ours a marriage that will take us into our golden years together.
Know it's too late???? Only for the water that has gone over the dam, but not too late for some future time.

I think guys depend on the woman to keep the M on track, so if your H understands where the M is now and where you see it going, I bet he will agree to the destination quicker than if only your H wanted a better M and you were just biding your time.

Maybe Dr Laura is wrong but that is her line of thinking. The W really sets the direction of the R/M (baring OW/sports/addictions) and the H sets the destination for the place and timing, mostly from the money he earns. But don't depend on me I have my R mess to deal with. You know, the blind trying to lead?

I still say that my H still hasn't evolved past seeing my pleasure as a trophy for his sexual prowess. He is only interested in providing me with pleasure to the extent that it feeds his ego.
I will have to examine myself here. I know I used to see BB as what was her role/job and what was my role/job, so in a way I didn't think about what made BB happy/satisfied. I thought what made me happy, made everyone similar to me, made them happy too. I listened to BB. Did things I thought she wanted done/bought, but 20 years later, hear I didn't do things to her liking.

Cine, are you feeling left out more than this statement is true, or how your H acutely thinks of you. Are you sort of borrowing trouble???? Just a reflective question. I sort of get feeling things are worse than BB thinks they are.

He discounts the effort it takes me to soothe myself when I am deeply uncomfortable with physical contact
So, has he ever attended sexual abuse classes or counseling sessions or any awareness programs. I think it takes several years of slow exposure for someone not abused to see the world similar to the abused persons sees or through their eyes.

please don't think I am making veiled statements about anyone on this board.
Gosh cine, I wouldn't think you are saying anything about men in general. I see you are relating your story as it applies to you and your H.

I don't want you to think what I post, applies to your H's way of thinking or acting. I just put out my story and hope you can see something that helps you. Want to say I try to see things similar to how you might see things, trying to be empathetic and a fair listener. I don't pretend to have answers for a situation like yours, but just in case something helps, well then good.

The good feelings slide away so fast.
Sorry Cine. That something that seems so global. I see where it could affect many things in your life.

In one of my c sessions, the c asked what was actually different about how I saw things before the back injury (real bad back pains, not working and I am what I do, well I was) and how a successful doctor saw my community.

It boiled down that the doctors shop in the same stores, stopped at the same traffic lights, went to the same ball games with their kids, had the same phone system as i did. Did it help, only some at the time, but I did see that my community hadn't changed so much as I had.

I wish I could help you see how other people hang on to those good feelings one gets from good relationships. You know some people have those good feelings that last a long time. How do they do it? Could you do part of what they do/feel?

nausea and claustrophobia I experience when we have sex.
Wow, that is some revelation and I am sorry you feel this way.

BB gets the minor claustrophobia part and I can feel it sometimes, so she gets top side 95% of the time and if I am on top, I am a little physically distant.

I don't know about discussing the nausea part (not skilled in that area of discussions w/o implying/risking the OP makes one sick) but I would tell your H about the claustrophobia.

It's a place to start that is less personal than the nausea, but by with holding this information for many years, are you being honest to the R? You are part of the R so have to have your needs met.

Out of time and ideas cine so have to close. It is good to hear you say It's something I have to work on.

Lou

[cinemanymph]

Is your H like me?

No, Lou, I think that you are more reflective. You take in information, mull it over and come to logical conclusions. My H is more reactive. He takes in information and if it doesn't jibe with anything that is already there, it gets filed in the recycle bin.

Just recently, I found out something very interesting about my H. I am in the habit of listening to a radio talk show in the afternoons, most of which I don't agree with. But being the person I am, can glean something of use from each day. H asked me why I would waste my time listening to someone I don't agree with. I told H I want to know what people are thinking weather I agree with it or not. H repeated that I am wasting my time. You don't strike me as the type of person who would discount others merely because you don't agree with them.

I went to 28 schools from 1st to 10th grade and BB went to 2.

26 for me. 1 for H.

Her parents and whole family treated me better than many of my relatives.

Ditto. My ILs were just angels.

Know it's too late????

I didn't say it was too late, just late. I am getting started late in the game, but better late than never, eh?

Are you sort of borrowing trouble????

I suppose I should discuss this with H. H walks around all puffed up after a good number of our sexual encounters talking about how he "put the hurt" to me. It's as if he views it as a sporting event with at winner and a loser.

It boiled down that the doctors shop in the same stores, stopped at the same traffic lights, went to the same ball games with their kids, had the same phone system as i did. Did it help, only some at the time, but I did see that my community hadn't changed so much as I had.

I see how this works. The community is the same, POVs change it for each person.

You know some people have those good feelings that last a long time. How do they do it? Could you do part of what they do/feel?

I know that people make connections and keep them going for a lifetime. Finding out how they do that is on my list of priorities. I can make connections with people but don't know what to say or do afterwords, it's very akward. I need to find out how to continue the connection. I suspect it has to do with trust.

I wish I could help you see how other people hang on to those good feelings one gets from good relationships.

Thank you, Lou. I wish you could, too.

Everyone is welcome to chime in here and tell me how this particular part of their lives works for them.

So, has he ever attended sexual abuse classes or counseling sessions or any awareness programs.

No, H will not read/talk to anyone about sexual abuse. It makes me suspect that he may have his own issues.

It's a place to start that is less personal than the nausea, but by with holding this information for many years, are you being honest to the R?

Ya got me here, Lou. I do need to discuss this with H.

You're being a good friend, thank you.

[Lillieperl]

H walks around all puffed up after a good number of our sexual encounters talking about how he "put the hurt" to me. It's as if he views it as a sporting event with at winner and a loser.

Oh cine... this is painful to read... especially taking into account your personal history... that awful phrase has a kind of disgusting irony...

(((((cine)))))

[honeypot]

Cine,
Your H is such a boob. I can glean from the way he talks that he has a *strong* need to hear words of affirmation. How well and how often do you deliver those?

Could you strike a deal with him and absolutely put a ban on his bragging and chest beating (frickin caveman) and tell him that he is not allowed to say it but you will? Force yourself to cough up, say, 3 things about his prowess after ML and see if it naturally lessens his urge to do it for ya.

I'm certainly not suggesting you say the sorts of things he does but say it in your own way, kwim? If he tries to take that ball and run with it (ok you *know* he will, lol) just merely put your fingertips on his lips and shush him. Train him. He is a ridiculous puppy jumping around looking to have his sexual ego petted. It is NOT attractive whatsoever.

Ask him to try it with you for a month and follow up on your end. Then see if he likes it better your way. I'm betting he will because his way just casts him in a supplicating, juvenile role and makes you sick to your stomach at hearing and seeing his display.

Hey, look at it this way: It can't get any worse.

[karen1]

Cine,

I really do know just what you mean. Ex-H used to brag about "knocking the bottom out of it". I would get very pissed because first of all "it" is attached to me, a live human being with feelings and secondly, I NEVER lay there passively while he "does his thing". I felt that having an equal sexual partnership was essential. Funny, the issue of shared sexual partnership is still with me in my present M.

Karen

[cinemanymph]

karen,

I gasped when I read your "knocking the bottom out of it" comment. That sounds even cruder than my Hs "put the hurt to you" You do absolutely know what I mean. I have brought up the fact that I find that kind of talk a turn off, but H can't seem to help himself. It's kind of like the victory dance football players do in the endzone. Which, incidentally, rubs me the wrong way too.

[cinemanymph]

HP,

Thanks for checking in.

He is a ridiculous puppy jumping around looking to have his sexual ego petted.

I had to laugh in recognition when I read this. Your suggestion may be a much better solution than confronting him. I will come up with at least two things I can compliment him on. I have a feeling this puppy is going to take a lot of petting .

Hey, look at it this way: It can't get any worse.

Well, there's nothing to do but get better, eh?

[cinemanymph]

((((Lil))))

You have it spot on with disgusting irony.