Afterall...This IS my Life

[blackfoot]

Ok...so you have grown from that woman you used to be, who wanted to please her H so much that she'd shave her head if he said to. IMPO, that's not a bad thing.

Gels comment confused me at first too, Heather, but I ended up assuming she meant---its not a bad thing that you have grown from that girl.


I was simply young and I have to stop being so hard on myself. Can anyone explain 'ego' to me? I always thought of someone who thinks they are perfect as having a 'big ego'. But I've seen it used in reference to people who are actually too hard on themselves and I'm having some trouble making that connection, but perhpas that is something I need to see in myself even though the connotations of having a big ego are ugly to me.

Whew the subject of ego could get really windy and wind up somewhere in Buddhism and death of ego leading to Nirvana...but Ill take a short tired stab at it.

To show you how subjective it can be, I differ from Cobra in personally viewing Pride as a 'bad thing'. My subjective view is most likely my religious background.
On one side you can Take Pride in your Work, on the other Pride goeth before a fall.

Ego is what you present to the world. Its your buffer. You can have a confidant self secure ego, that allows you to react in a calm, humourous, differentiated way---or-- you can have a insecure ego that causes you to lash out or REact in order to preserve the 'safety' and outer appearance of your ego. For example needing to maintain the 'good' appearance of a Relationship, even if its not really that 'good'.


Another example of ego....
There is a skinny little kid that gets picked on by bullies all the time. He grows up, works out constantly and fights anyone and everyone who makes the slightest hint of derision towards his 'manliness'. You may see a buffed out strong guy, where in reality this is insecure ego he is using to protect that skinny little kid that he sees himself as still.
Instead of being secure and validating himself, (internal voice --Im strong, what they say think doesnt matter) he needs others to prove his validation to himself, even if it means hurting them (internal voice--Im not a wimp Ill show them!!) the internal voice is negative with and without the not and its also externally motivated.

Being too hard on yourself, is self defeating ego, because you dont forgive yourself, or allow yourself to be human (error prone ). If you dont care for yourself, you cant allow anyone else to- no matter how much you may deserve it.

we will never be perfect, and thats OK. If we didnt make mistakes, we wouldnt need courage- and If we didnt need courage, there would be no confidant/insecure seperation.... no growth.
Only dead things dont grow.

[Jabez]

Hi Heather,

This posting is way long overdue.

I've pretty much left the boards. Somehow "Jabez has left the boards" just doesn't have the same ring to it

The divorce is going forward, there's nothing else I can do. We went to one MC session and W said that if the subject of reconciliation came up, she'd leave. She had to go to one session with me as a result of the custody agreement.

The L that I was working with came to a mutual agreement with me that he'd no longer work with me after I challenged one of his billings. So now I need to find a new L.

D14 is doing very well in all aspects of her life. D16 is being challenged in school like she never has been before. As a high school junior, she's taking college chemistry and college calculus. Other than that she's doing very well.

Both D14 & D16 have had the occasion to be w/W when OM was with W. Both DD's have told me that they don't talk to OM and don't like OM. OM has estranged himself from his mother and sister b/c of the A.

And that's the sitch in a nutshell.

I want to say thank you for all the time and thought that you put in to responding to my posts. I don't know what to think about the whole idea of DB'ing b/c I don't feel like it "worked" for us. The D is not busted and I still take an occasional ride the roller coaster. I don't think that DB'ing was the right approach for us and as a result, I wonder if I blew the only opportunity that I had.

I wish you all the best in your efforts to save your M. I wish you a happy, healthy R w/S5 & D3 regardless of what happens.

Take care of yourself,
Jabez

[heatherg]

One thing I recall from counseling on this topic was that when people say things like this, they are sometimes actually talking about themselves.

Yes, and it does make sense. It's pretty subjective though and makes it really imperative that we are able to analyze our own behavior as objectively as possible so we can see this tendency in ourselves if it is there.

When I aked about ego, I was recalling a mention on the boards somewhere about people who expect too much of themselves and are really hard on themselves because they think they should be perfect. Does anybody recall what I'm talking about? Then I also read something about it in the book I'm reading...I'll go back and find it and post it but it was just a quick sentence that seemed to be referring to the same idea that I remembered reading about here somewhere. The idea is apparently that ego is what causes someone to feel like they are so perfect that they should never be allowed to screw up. I had just never thought of it like that before...a big ego is not usually what comes to mind for me when I see someone beating themselves up about something.

I thought you mentioned some time back that you both came from dysfunctional families, not necessarily abusive but dysfunctional enough that you both wanted out and turned to each other for escape. Actually, I can’t possibly see how your H could not come from a narcissistic setting, which IS abusive. The control issues in him that you talk about are just too clear.

No, in fact if anything, I've been confused about H's alcoholic/depressive tendencies because he did NOT come from an abusive background. He had 3 siblings, two younger sisters and an older brother. He had a large extended family, lots of aunts, uncles and cousins. There was nothing in his childhood that was unusual and we are very close to everyone in his family to this day. His parents actually moved to VA from MI in order to be closer to the grandkids and his sister lives 25 mins from us and we spend weekends with them all the time. His brother lives in MD and we see them several times a year. His youngest sister is a bit different from the rest...she is very much a naturalist and seems to be content being farther away from the family, as she works more toward the west side of the US working as a botanist and backpacking in the woods for days at a time. But they still all get along very well. SO.....what about narcisstic? Well, let me tell you the word that came to mind the first time my eyes fell on my H......ARROGANT. Buy as for why he is that way, I've come to realize, just like Blackfoot says, that it is insecurity not a true feeling that he is the greatest thing ever.

The video game is not the issue. His fear of abandonment is the issue. You can sooth that fear in more ways than just playing video games.

LOL, I wasn't talking about playing video games with my H, I was talking about finding a game that S6 and I can play together.

Actually, I can’t possibly see how your H could not come from a narcissistic setting, which IS abusive. The control issues in him that you talk about are just too clear.

I'm not seeing the whole narcissistic family dynamic theory. I can see that his mother could be considered controlling-sometimes overtly, but mostly very covertly. And H's sister (the one that lives 25 mins from us) is very headstrong and I can remember that H could not stand her when they lived under the same roof. But now they get along very well. When I met H, he clearly had a preference for his other sister and her personality was quiet, shy and reserved...he was actually quite fond of her. I don't see narcissism per se in his family dynamics, but I can perhaps see that the women in H's early life may have been dominating in comparison to H.

For those raised in a narcissistic family, these lessons are circumvented. The only rule is the use of power to override the needs of others in order to have yours met first. The kids always lose since they are the weakest. So they learn to deal with their insecurities and fears the best they can and wait for the day they have enough power to meet their own needs, just like mom and dad. Isn’t this what you went through?

Well, looking back my parents could have done a better job than they did. But I didn't realize that at the time, so it didn't really negatively affect me kwim? Except for the alcohol issue that is.

After some time at this level, I think we can then evolve to yet another higher level.

I hope so. For you and for me. And for everyone else on this board for that matter.

[heatherg]

Gels comment confused me at first too, Heather, but I ended up assuming she meant---its not a bad thing that you have grown from that girl.

Oops, I get it now.

If we didnt make mistakes, we wouldnt need courage- and If we didnt need courage, there would be no confidant/insecure seperation.... no growth.

This reminds me of Grey's Anatomy last night. There was an awesome monoglogue at the end by Denny, the guy who's heart transplant didn't 'take'. But he left a message of some sort for his parents before he died and it was a really awesome portrayal of mistakes. I'll have to watch the rerun just so I can write it down, because it was very poetic.

Jabez, I'm so sorry that things haven't changed much for the better. I would like to see you stick around, maybe in Surviving, but I obviously defer to your own ability to recognize what's best for you.

I'm glad that the girls are flourishing and I hope that in time you will be able to look back on this time as a necessary evil to get you where you are supposed to be in this life. From everything you've posted, it sounds like your WAW went through some changes that would have made it impossible for her to be the wife you once had in her so I hope that in some way that makes it a little easier to let her go. I wish you the best my friend and please do consider staying on the boards.

[heatherg]

Here's part of Denny's monologue:

"Sometimes you have to do the wrong thing. Sometimes you have to make a big mistake to figure out how to make things right. Mistakes are painful but they're the only way to find out who you really are. I know who I am now. I know what I want."

[heatherg]

I was wondering if anyone has a good book recommendation for jealousy? Understanding it, overcoming it, etc. I found one on Amazon that I'm thinking about ordering "The Psychology of Jealousy and Envy", but thought I would ask for a recommendation here first.

Thanks!

[Burgbud]

Hey Heather!

Remember Dana (Still_hopeful)? She just had a baby with her new husband!

(And yes, that was fast, and yes, those two things are related, and she's very happy.)

[Burgbud]

Hey Heather!

Any progress on the jealousy business? Is this something for you or something you want to help H with?

[heatherg]

Burgbud, that's great to hear about Dana. It's very sobering to see how quickly life can take turns, ya know?

The jealousy book was for me. Sometimes feelings of jealousy creep up on me and I hate feeling that way. It's even harder to admit that I have those feelings. Sucks

I was in Annapolis this past weekend for our annual company management meeting. H was able to make it with me this time and it was really...surprising I guess is the best word to use. When we were getting ready to leave, H started being very affetionate, gave me a big hug, sighed and said "Why are we so stupid?" I just paused and said "If I understand the context of that question correctly, it's the smartest thing I've heard you say in a long time...". We slept in the same bed the whole time, H was affectionate like in the old days. Get this-he even told me Friday night that he had felt like kissing me earlier in the night! So, we had a great weekend. Then, we come home and the sleeping arrangements are back to the usual. Last night he started pushing back on the bedtime issue again. I don't give a damn, I'm not scared of ruining 'what's going well'. I am NOT budging on the bedtime issue. I don't even have it 'my way', the bedtime is still way too late and is not meeting my criteria for compromise, which is in bed ready to sleep by 9:30. He's not in bed ready to sleep until 10pm because the bedtime routine takes 45 mins. I have to push every minute of that 45 mins to keep things moving. He pushes back. It's so fing stupid it blows my mind. I told him that I am not an opinionated person by nature but that I have a strong opinion on this issue and I will not back down, so I guess we can just continue to butt heads on the issue. Last night I realized I may even have to get slighly underhanded in order to accomplish my objective, and underhanded is NOT the way I usually operate. H usually lets S6 get up twice after he's been in bed, I say once is plenty. So, last night I rewarded S6 with a Rolo to stay in his bed. Desperate Housewives is rubbing off on me I think

A lot of mixed stuff going on....it's like positives mixed with the same ole crap. Things don't change overnight though and it used to be the same ole crap every day with not a whole lot of positive stuff going on. So, at least the positive stuff is becoming more frequent and has more quality than it used to. It used to be a positive thing at times if H simply spoke to me. Now, an example of a positive thing is that H said he felt like kissing me. See the difference, lol??

[heatherg]

The affections and the good feelings that we shared on our trip didn't last very long. We're still doing alright, being friendly and sometimes a pat of affection, but not happy like we were for that one weekend. Other than that, I've been sticking pretty close to my strategy of not speaking about 'us', just trying to let him come to his conclusions on his own. I guess I've already said everything there is to say anyway.
I tried sitting on his lap and telling him that I had a really good time and was sort of sad that we haven't been relating to each other the same way since we've been home. He said "Well, we have busy lives." He also said "It was a different environment." I can't remember exactly what I said but his response was "It seems like you're pressuring it." I answered "I guess it seems like I'm pressuring it because it seems like you're blowing it off." That was the end of the conversation.
I haven't initiated any relationship talks in a long time, nor did I request that we continue sleeping in the same bed when we got home. I don't feel like I've been pressuring him at all, in fact my strategy is not to have any conversations at all about 'us'. The only conversation I can think of is the meltdown of sorts that I had when he came home from one of his trips a month or two ago. I was pretty emotional because I didn't want him to come home and I confessed that I couldn't decide if building a house with him was a sign of my commitment or an act of incredible irresponsibility.
The affection has just slowly tapered off and there's something that's been bothering me, in addition to the obvious. I've nevered understood the phrase "My H is only nice to me when he wants sex." I'm starting to wonder if that phrase pertains to me. H and I don't have a regular sex life anymore because I won't. H started being nice to me before we ever even left for Annapolis, with hugs and the question I mentioned above where he said "Why are we so stupid?" He also pulled me down onto the bed while we were packing to tell me he was very attracted to me. So, I guess I don't get the part about a busy life and a different environment. It doesn't add up. It feels like when H reaches the point where it's been too long for him to go without sex, he knows what to do and say to get it. Thing is, I'm catching on and I don't like that possibility one bit.
We have reached a new plateau where we get along reasonably well, we're not overtly disrespectful to one another like we were, and we have affection that ranges from zero to mild to pretty loving. But I have to say that I get very, very frustrated if I let myself dwell on certain things. So, certain thoughts are off my 'allowed to think about' list for the most part, but my sister thinks I'm 'burying my head in the sand'. Interesting she should say that because I've never confessed to her that there are thoughts I can't/won't think about. Sisters are rather perceptive I guess and even though I was hurt by what she said and she apologized for it without my having to directly express that I was hurt....I wonder if she is right. I've been living like I'm staying long term. I told myself this past summer that I'd give it another year. Somewhere, I've forgotten about the year part and started believing that I really would be here long term. I guess the back and forth emotional pull is making me remember the year part. Thanks guys, I'm having a bit of an emotional moment I guess.

Heather