Thanks for the comments guys. I think I might need to clarify and hopefully this is not going to come off as defensive.
Quote: Nothing like nagging to kill the mood. Maybe you can hint through your actions - because I do think it's important to express your sexuality - in a way that is playful and/or suggestive rather than the intellectual/verbal communicating you're doing now.
I don't verbally communicate much at ALL. That's why I said that I really didn't intend to say "I plan to have sex tonight, wanna join me." I should have said more clearly that I didn't mean to say that because I KNOW that things like that killed the mood for her in the past. I am ALL about action these days and saying VERY little. It's one of the things I found out she hated and I am trying as best I can to not only respect HER wishes, but also honor who I want to be, and that is someone who isn't afraid of being assertive because I may be rejected. I don't take that personally anymore and I really think it's leading to a more comfortable R in terms of intimacy. It's not like I have all the answers regarding my R and sexuality in it but this is one area where I have done a lot of soul searching and come up with a LOT of things I'd like to change in this respect and I found that through ALL my relationships I have done certain things, like being VERY passive/aggressive about sex, that I would like to change.
Quote: Have you asked openly what you can do for your W in day to day life to make things for her better? I'm just curious, because when you do for her, it's natural for her to want to do for you, and if she's not, then it seems you might not be reaching her where you should.
Yes, and this has made the biggest difference. I did this early on, when things started to get better and while she didn't really tell me much, between what she did say and what I figured out on my own, I managed to understand more than ever what I had not really been doing all these years. And that brings your next point...
Quote: he thing that's really troublesome to me when I read about this, and take this with a grain of salt because I don't know anything and I'm basing this on many levels of assumption, is: you seem to be really reworking yourself around your wife, who doesn't seem too interested in building a new, more developed relationship. It seems you're accommodating her and she isn't contributing much, whether it be vision of where the relationship should be or action to get it there. I know this DB stuff leads us to believe that we have to shoulder the weight and do the hard work in order to get to the point where our spouses will cooperate, but it seems to me that you are there and she isn't cooperating too much. It's like she's doing you a favor by staying and allowing you to have her as your wife.
Well, to be honest muddle, I have had that last thought myself but then when I take stock and see if I am REALLY doing things just for her, or if I am doing things that I really enjoy doing/would do for ANY woman in my life, or anybody for that matter that I cared about, I see that I am indeed just being me. For her part, she IS doing a lot more than really she has ever done in terms of reaching out to me, both literally and figuratively. Her contribution to forming our "new" marriage IS less than mine at this point but like many WAS's, I think her idea is to just forget it ever happened and move forward. Since we have had the "forgiveness" conversations (the one where I forgive her, and the one where I tell her she will eventually need to forgive herself) I feel ok with just moving forward. I don't need her to be vocal about her "vision" but I do need to hear certain reassurances from her and most importantly, I need her ACTIONS to match the little she does say about being committed to us and our future together.
So far, her actions of late are 100% transparent. Ever since we had that open talk about how all I really ever needed from her is to have her understand how certain things affected me, i.e. the long periods of time where she was not answering her phone, etc, and she said she totally understood that, things have been MUCH better. She said she never really thought about that. She would just get angry at me for my reaction and never stopped to realize how despite my best efforts, those kinds of things affected me.
Quote: I'm sure I'm misreading a lot here, but I caution you to be aware that you're either setting the precedent or feeding into one that's already set that she can do as she wishes and you'll be happy as long as she doesn't leave you. I know you want more, even if it's just the sex that's lacking. I think this is the big carrot on the end of the stick for you that once you achieve you'll have little motivation for progress. That's far too much emphasis on sex, far too much pressure. It should be fun, not necessarily loaded with meaning. Remember (and this is something WASs seem to think the reverse of) that actions generate feelings. If you wait around for the feelings to act, then you may never have the feelings.
I agree with this. Profound my friend. I really think I have stripped away most of the pressure (you have NO idea how bad I used to be. I can't imagine she ever wanted to ML, and that's not just me taking all the blame, that's REAL!). I THINK I have started to get my W to feel comfortable with me physically. In the past there was SO much pressure from me every time there was ANY physical interaction to ML that I suppose it eventually burned her out. I know the one time I had a GF that was like that (believe it or not) I felt that way. It was the only R I was ever in where I actually found reasons NOT to be around her because there was ALWAYS the expectation of sex. Wow, saying that sounds funny.
Anyway, it's NOT a topic of conversation between us anymore and I think my actions are affecting her, and HER actions seem to be more positive than ever...well...except for the no sex part and like I have been saying, I THINK that will be changing sooner rather than later and when it does, I REALLY think my opportunity to prove to myself AND her that I am capable of intimacy THROUGHOUT the house not just in the bedroom will be huge.
If we DO ML and then I don't physically pull away from her like I ALWAYS did for a few days after (i.e. her saying the only time I ever touch her is when I want sex) then I think much progress will be made and things will improve dramatically!
