Let me be sure I understand what you are saying. There are two issues I have mentioned – ADD and OCD. Regarding ADD, I know that W has this. She has been “diagnosed” by every professional who has seen her (though I don’t know how they do that other than through subjective evaluation).
W tries to use ADD as a crutch but I do not buy into it, so that creates a lot of anger in her, but it also means that my refusal to accommodate her has made her must learn to cope and stop imposing her shortcomings on others. This has been taking place over the past year as I have not stepped in to rescue her on a lot of things that used to be ADD issues (finding her lost stuff, using the PC, organizing her things). I think this is the right course of action as things have gotten a little better. Any anxiety she gets from an ADD related issue cropping up does not seem to be fear based but frustration based. She knows ADD is a biological condition and therefore knows she is not at “fault” or to blame. In fact, she can take pride in how well she does in spite of her ADD (or so her thinking may go).
The OCD issue may be different. It may be a reaction to fear or anxiety but does not seem to create frustration in her. In fact any OCD behaviors are comforting to her so that she is able to mask the anxiety. However, if there is really no OCD but just a general anxiety disorder, using the OCD crutch will circumvent any growth she could accomplish. Preventing this growth means allowing the anxiety to persist so assigning the OCD label could create an escape hatch for her.
She may prefer to have the OCD label since that justifies her behavior and gives a convenient excuse to not confront her general anxiety. Not confronting that anxiety contributes to her need to control the family and her occasional outbursts. However, if she truly does have OCD, only medication will help. And if there are other personality disorders involved, more serious help is needed. Do I have the gist of your message right?
Now as far as how to approach her… I have my doubts that your suggestion will work because it implies there is something wrong with her, when she fully believes her problems come from me. Remember she has this major hang-up about feeling blamed or criticized. I speculated on it a little while ago. I am seeing this as a very nice way to block any “attacks” on her and maintain her defenses. It is part of the circle that helps to create and maintain her false self. So I will let this whole matter lie for a little while and ponder it some…
I have my doubts that your suggestion will work because it implies there is something wrong with her... So I will let this whole matter lie for a little while and ponder it some…
I think you're gonna have to figure out a really good way to present the idea.....You've said your W admits to some possible personality disorder characteristics, etc, but you would still want her to feel supported by you (via any suggestion you may make) not threatened. If you two aren't on the best of terms, she would seriously doubt your motivations, which will defeat your purpose and interfere with her getting the help she may need. Think on it...
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Could you just simply ask her out of mere curiosity sometime "which Dr. diagnosed you with OCD? I can't seem to recall." Then...if she tells you then inquire about what they did to evaluate her etc. It might lead to an opening where you could say something along the lines of "Maybe you should get re-evaluated...sort of a check up, make sure the meds you are taking are still accurate....it might help ease the pressure you are under." I don't know, that's just a thought....but you can see what I'm getting at. Approach it in a manner where you appear concerned for her, yet not blaming or pointing out flaws.
I don’t want to shoot you down, but as you may have noticed, this is just the sort of thing for which W has super attenuated ultra-high frequency radar. She can clue in on any probes that might hint of a fault within her. I am thinking it best to let the C bring it up, especially now that W and I are in a calm spot (and if for no other reason than to prolong the peace at home for the kids).
The C has already suspected that W has these OCD tendencies and since she claims to be highly OCD herself, she can just tell her own story and see how much W relates to it.
BTW, stop worrying about whether I listen toyou or not. I do. I may not agree wit hyou all the time, and I may have my own selfish reasons for doing what I do, but I still hear you.
Just giving you a hard time When I'm shot down I view that as an opportunity to come up with an approach I haven't thought of yet! It's a challenge for me.
Cobra, Man your thread drives me crazy at times. Here are my unadulterated thoughts, as abrasive as they no doubt are: Who gives a rip if her issues are FOO related, ADD related, OCD related or--my personal opinion--B*TCH related, there is no reason why your whole family should have to tolerate it.
If I were you, I would immediately stop delving into the realm of her gray matter and instead focus on what boundaries you will enforce and how you will go about it. What you will say, how you will react, how you will handle it with your children, etc.
WHO CARES why she acts the way she does. It's mildly interesting to delve into that realm of thinking but at some point, don'tcha have to figure out what you are going to do about it?
You cannot will your wife to face her issues. This is a dead end road.
Knowing this, it seems like a much more productive route to focus on how YOU will act when faced with her copious problemos.
Ironically enough, given what I just said above, I was thinking about you and your upbringing yesterday. You wrote something about the Japanese influence creating in you a person who chronically puts others' feelings above your own. I got to thinking about this approach and wondered what a Japanese alpha male would look like? How do Japanese men lead their families while at the same time always putting other people ahead of themselves?
Anyway, the reason I am writing this is because I think that your hyperfocus on her disorders is a sort of mental crutch--you don't have to do what is naturally hard for you (deal with your aversion to confrontation) while you are dealing with her issues.
As I read this I'm sure it will come out far harsher than what I intend. Sorry in advance for that. If we were having lunch instead of communicating thru typed words, I can assure you that you would know that I am not attacking, simply trying to redirect a friend towards a direction in which he has some potential for great impact and away from a dead end street.
Like Gel said ask if she has every been diagnosed, and if she said no, then I would just act is if she isnt. I wouldnt try to get her to 'get fixed' for the reasons you mentioned, and also becuase --from my chair-- it doesnt appear that she does. Going thru the fight to have a Dr. say no your not OCD seems pretty pointless.
I also wouldnt try to talk her out of it. Trying to change someones mind on stuff like this is useless. Better they come to it of there own accord, after being in healthy environment.
You know, I’m think I’m starting to see the humor and enjoyment you refer to when women react, like Honeypot is doing!
Honeypot,
Interesting question about Japanese alpha men. Do they exist? I don’t know of any on my side of the family. Well, I take that back. I think my grandfather was alpha male, never got angry, argued, just let the wife ramble on, and she could go on. Always that calm assuredness, or was that fear of sparking an endless argument? At the same time I got the feeling he did not really rule the roost, maybe on big, important matters. But on everyday affairs she did. When I look at my aunts, uncles and cousins, I get the same impression, and one that I think may be lost on most Americans, that Japanese families are more matriarchal that patriarchal. I think the image of the stern Japanese father, samurai-like in his stoicism, is just a stereotype. The men spend all their time at work, come home late, so the women raise the kids and control the household. I’m not sure that is alpha male.
As for WHY my w is as she is, I do think it is important. I don’t want to keep bandaging this thing. I want to CURE it once and for all. Otherwise it keeps coming back and both of us are getting tired of this way of life. Perhaps one day we will be old and tired enough to care, but right now there are plenty if years still at stake with raising the kids and I really hope that in another year or so most of this will be fixed and the healing can begin.
I also disagree that I can’t will my wife to face her issues. I can. I can tell her I don’t like the way she imposes on me, that I don’t want to tolerate it and if she doesn’t change, there will be consequences. Now some will say that is boundary setting. But I am blocking a path for her by setting consequences. Now the responsibility of choosing is in her plate. Now her values come into play in making her decision. She has to wrestle with her conscious and her guilt. I have set mine on the line. By limiting her options, I CAN impose a certain amount of my will on her.
NOT confronting her with this choice is avoiding my issues, avoiding my aversion to confrontation. This is the very subtle twist I have come to see. She has always blamed me for being passive-aggressive, for not standing up and being direct. Her directness, her laying down some boundary or ultimatum causes me to have to confront a dilemma – do I stand up for myself and create a fight, or do I back down and keep the peace? Do I take full responsibility for the problem, or do I see that she has a role and is just as capable of compromising her need to assert herself as I am? With the ultimatums, do I back down or do I become the bad guy and stand up for myself under threat of D?
But the same argument applies to her. Is she not forcing the ultimatum on me so that she can avoid having to confront the decision of being the bad guy? Once I called her bluff on this and SHE became to one to decide whether to file for D or not, rather than force me into being the one to decide, she suddenly realized jumping into D is not such an easy decision. It is one thing to push someone else to file for D so that you feel you then have no choice in the matter, it is something else for you to decide to D out of your own free will. This all sounds academic, but to me, it unravels this whole false defensive shield she has erected. I can start to see it as a house of cards. It levels the playing field and forces her to negotiate honestly, rather than through false intimidation.
So how I handle my problems and learn to assert myself is to understand that her façade, her mental disorders whether real or imagined, are just a defense and she does not have the power over me that she would like me to think. I am still unraveling that mess, and with each layer I level the field just a little bit more.
Yes - your post had the basic spirit of what I was saying. I won't nitpick the parts that aren't quite what I was saying. It IS important to get a proper diagnosis simply because OCD and PTSD are serious, debilitating disorders which, if she has, she hasn't scratched the surface of dealing with. It is your problem too merely because you live with her and share children with her. It ISN'T your problem to babysit her treatment except that nothing that you have described remotely matches proper treatment. Generalized Anxiety Disorder is also a serious disorder which requires medication. It can be quite severe. It is similar to OCD because of the serious anxiety involved. However, there are significant differences. A personality disorder is extremely serious and is what Mrs. VBube is dealing with. The manipulative nature of Mrs. Cobra (B!tch disorder as HP said) can be tip off to personality disorder. Ignoring the significance of such a diagnosis and its treatment won't help. Although to HP's point, if it has only been offhand diagnosis or self diagnosis, I would only allow discussion/excuse/conversation vis a vie the ADD. However, treatment of ADD involves HER implementing lots of coping skills - list making, imposing more structure (i.e. "every night I spend 15 minutes picking up the area I tend to pile things in). "Gosh honey, I know it is difficult to keep your things picked up with the ADD and all. What coping skills are you using to deal better with it?"
I guess in terms of getting her some better help you might couch it in these terms. "Sweetie, I've been doing some reading about OCD and PTSD and I'm really confused. You don't seem to be getting any of the suggested treatment. I'm worried about your health and safety. I heard about this Dr., Dr. X, how about we go see him/her for my peace of mind?"
I am not trying to belittle anyone here but this is a serious thing Cobra and the more that she hides behind half-azzed diagnosis and half-azzed treatment the further behind she gets. The more that you accept that half-azzed diagnosis and treatment, the further behind you get.
I am very pleased that you are seriously considering what I am saying whether or not you are ever able to get her to consider the issue. At least read up on the disorders through the DSM-IV, it also lists the recommended treatment. Also, look up Borderline, Narcissistic and Dependent personality Disorders and see what you think. This suggestion is not meant for you to now try to diagnose her but just to see what seems true and then to look at suggested treatment so you are at least informed.
I cant delete it, even if I could, I want you both to know Id like to take back my last comment and am chagrined for disagreeing with a professional on what course to take.
When I'm shot down I view that as an opportunity to come up with an approach I haven't thought of yet! 
It's a challenge for me.