It's so hard to keep your nose to the grindstone and try and make the positive shine through. My hat remains off to you, Muddle. So sorry about your sons comments, wish I could advise but sadly cannot. I hope others can give you some guidance on talking to your son on such matters.
As far as kids go it is tough. Last fall I went to lunch with a kid in my son's preschool class and her grandpa. I heard my son tell the little girl "My Daddy doesn't like my Mommy anymore" I was mortified. He also became very insecure and didn't want me to leave him at school because he thought I wasn't going to ever come back. Also, the few times H and I argued and yelled with eachother it caused 2 of our kids to constantly cry and beg us to stop and our oldest D's grades suffered terribly.
Sadly, this isn't just about you and your W. Your son didn't ask to be born, you both made the decision to have him. Now because the going gets tough your W cannot just decide that she doesn't want to do this anymore especially without trying to fix what she perceives is wrong in your M. These WAS's are so damn selfish and so are the OP when you come to think of it. Can you tell I'm mad?
Again, try to act as normal as you possibly can around your son, lay low and try not to put too much pressure on W as it only makes her mad.
I can relate to your anger. This morning I was thinking about my W and the issues she has from her parents. Her mother resented the hell out of my W, and still does to a certain degree. Guess what, W is doing it to our S. I mean resentment to the point where she told me that she hoped S4 and I, who were going somewhere in the car, would get into an accident (not the only time she wished something would happen to me). Her parent divorced. She hasn't forgiven her parents for it, she sees her mother is not happily married (some question as to whether she left W's father for her current husband). It's unreal how W justifies passing along all the issues that she's gone through. This is where I see major MLC - when a parent can justify destroying the lives of their children for their selfish illusory desires in the name of happiness or personal fulfillment. Sad, very sad.
W has no real impulse control, and has often sparked S to say things like "you guys love each other" or "stop fighting" or "we're family." A four year old shouldn't have to think about trying to keep his family together. He shouldn't feel like that. Nothing I do can stop W from lashing out if she feels like it. Even physically. It's really distressing.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, to hear that your W is wishing an accident upon you and your son is quite frightening. I'm sorry but she needs some serious medication. I'm not joking. This is what is so hard for you, the thought of leaving S in her charge would be so anxiety provoking. I do know that one of the reasons I stayed with my W in the beginning of all this s*** is my C saying "do you want to leave your children in the hands of someone with serious depression?" NO. What more can I say, your W is NUTS! I can't imagine a mother wishing harm on her child, whew!!!
Muddle, Sadly I agree with whatisis. Your W might wish some harm come to you, just to rid you out of her life, but to your son? That is sick? I don't mean to judge her as I know you love her deeply and I am only responding to the information that you post but PLEASE, do not leave him in her care. I don't know if I asked you before but is your W in therapy? If not, would she be willing to go? My perception of things is that she is just SO childish. She needs to get a grip and deal with things or you need to do it for her by kicking her a$$ to the curb (without her son or money). I hate to be so harsh but the more I read the more I want to smack her...
As always, I appreciate the concern and support. Yeah, I know it's crazy. But don't forget, I'm the one who's delusional and in denial here! In her defense, she does speak everything on her mind very frankly, and this is not something that really alarms me. I don't think she'd even think about doing anything to either of us. It's kind of like when my mother used to get up from the dinner table and scream about how she was going to kill herself. It was all talk - her way of venting her frustration. In my W's case, this A presents many obstacles, and unfortunately, our son is one of them because of the different country issue. So yes, on some level something happening to him would make her life easier, or at least acheiving her goal of eternal bliss.
She is in therapy, although I don't know whether these issues are being dealt with in any way. I know her therapist is validating her feelings about wanting to continue to explore this affair relationship (I guess it matters not that it's totally inappropriate) and she is of the opinion that I'm in denial and she was surprised that I didn't do more to address my W's depression (which she was being treated for) - so basically, she's validating the feelings of a depressed person that the other party is the one to blame for everything. Good therapist.
Just one of those WTF moments I wanted to document: last night W went out with a friend. She came home about 10:30. She came into our room and said: "I'm banned from my own room. Just because I don't want to sleep with you, I can't sleep in my own room." Wow - her choice had a consequence?
This morning, I had a strained conversation with W. Basically, she gave me an attitude. I told her not to talk to me that way and this sparked a bit of an issue. First of all she told me that I was treating her like a child. Then she told me that I was causing the attitude. Then she told me that she can talk to me any way she wants to. Then she told me that I don't deserve respect because I don't show it to her.
I'm starting to think it would be best for me to get out now.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, Once again, you only know what your W tells you happens in therapy! Anais Nin said (or wrote) "we don't see things the way they are, we see them the way we are". That is your W! But to explore why the A is happening and why she is so stuck on it is a good thing, isn't it? No T will tell her to stop the A, go back to her H and work out her M. A good T will help her explore until she gets to the point where she wants to do so. That is then her choice. The T'also only hears what your W tells her about how you care for her needs, not your side/viewpoint. Forget her and her stupid T, it's a cheeseless tunnel for you. Work on what you can, forget the rest.
You're right, I have always tried to maintain the opinion that her therapist is doing what's got to be done for her. I know my W makes her own decisions regardless of the people that influence her. I have often thought that the therapist needs to maintain a friend/supportive relationship in order to maintain my W's trust and not destroy any opportunity for catharsis. But still, it seems that she's helping her develop this fabricated world rather than develop herself in the real world.
I never expected her therapist to tell her to stop the A. I wonder how much honest exploration of the A is possible while it's ongoing though.
No, I'm not thinking about it. In fact, I'm not thinking much about W either. I'm doing my thing and enjoying life. S4 and I had a great day together - went to the gym (he loves the kid's playroom there - it gives him the opportunity to make friends), went grocery shopping and came down to the city to go swimming with my brother (lifeguard and swim instructor). S4 is getting much more comfortable in the water. Then we went out for Chinese food together. All in all a really nice day.
I think I really need to worry about the real cheese in my life and my son's and not worry about the cheese in my W's tunnels. When she's ready to explore a relationship with me, we'll see where I am. Until then, there's really not much worth fighting for. I'll be civil and kind, but I'm no longer trying to change any dynamics or save this marriage. I think this right now is where I need to be - letting go completely.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Believe it or not, this might be the strategy that actually works! Maybe if she truly feels that you are giving her space and not "trying" to fix things, it might let her breathe a bit. I'm thinking that might be the way to go in my sitch too. Just to let her be and live my life. I always thought that was how we guys got into these shi**y sitch's in the first place. Now it's the answer. Go figure! Sounds like a great day with your son and that's a tunnel with one heck of a lot of cheese to be had (and he even likes YOU ) .
Muddle, honey, I am still here, and still wanting to kick your W's a$$, OMGosh. She makes me so mad.
Forget HER in C, I don't give a rat's hind-end about her therapy at this point. is your SON in C? As you have said, that is a LOT on a small guy and he needs someone to talk to that he can be completely honest with about how he feels in his little head.
Unfortunately that cannot be you, either, b/c he feels -to some degree- that he has to be strong for you, or just not his complete wide-open self on this topic b/c it's painful to both of you and I'm sure he wants to spare you pain (as evidenced by his sweet comments in the face of your W's crap).
Not that you can't love the heck out of him and make him feel as secure as you possibly can, of course you will!, but he needs a safe 3rd party to process this with.
Forgive me for butting in on that, but I have a friend going thru a horrible separation and her middle child (very young) has been crying every night "wanting to die" unless daddy moves back home. He actually found a dagger from an overseas trip on a high shelf and put it to his abdomen wanting 'to die unless daddy comes home'. She went that night and got her H and put him in her son's room for the time being. She said she'd rather be miserable for all eternity with this horrible man than to lose her little boy over it. (who is now in C, by the way)
SO. all that to say my red flags are waving in your situation due to what I've seen here locally. not that anything so drastic will happen to your boy, but I'm just saying.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
) . 