You know, W still acts so cold to me, as if she doesn't even want me as a friend. This coming from a woman who a few months ago told me "I have a lot of love to give. I can love two people." I wish we could have simple conversations without her lashing out. I wish we could say hello or goodbye without tension or her trying to prove a point (doing the wave with her fingers as she waves goodbye - basically saying good riddance). But the fact is that this is how she is acting. It's tiresome not being affected by it because I want to be nothing but kind, loving and good to her yet our interactions are sabotaged by her at every opportunity. If I don't do things exactly the way she would or thinks I should, she'll give me trouble. I can't keep track, or read her mind, and because of this I apparently don't know her. We are not compatable.
I had originally planned on staying together as long as possible, living like a family even if she's not sleeping in our bed. Waiting this thing out seemed like a viable option, but it seems that that relationship is really feeding off of whatever bad she creates in the present in our M, and nothing I can do alleviates that stress. I am away so much working that are interaction is very limited, but yet when it occurs, it's generally not great. I am upbeat. I am kind and good to her. What more can I do without entirely removing myself?
It appears I'm a bit more frustrated with the situation than I think I really am. I'm at peace with a lot, but I'd prefer to get along even if we're walking away from each other. I can't help feeling like it's me that's not doing something I should be to change the way we interact. I have to come up with a good 180 in this department. I have been trying to give her firm resistance when she gets mean or disrespectful, and she has taken notice of it, but it sparks a new issue of injustice. It makes her say that I demand respect but she gets none.
I can't stop deflecting it to these issues I see in her. I think she has a real deep sense that she can use her feelings to control her world and people in it. I think that she creates resentment because she thinks she gains leverage over people by doing so. It's a way of controlling them. She creates resentment over insignificant things and the sources of her resentment that I have control over are few and far between, even though I try to fix it, she's got so much accumulated that there's not much improvement. It feels so hopeless.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Hey Muddle, Can you ask her how she would like you to show respect? Get some concrete direction? It's easy for her to whip out words like "respect" etc. to lash you with but can she tell you her version of respect. If reasonable, agree to do it. I'm glad you still feel some peace in your life, it's damn hard right now. She sounds like a child in the midst of a dispute with a sibling! Has she stuck her tongue out yet? Maybe you should beat her to it
You know the concept of learned helplessness? I *know* there are opportunities (or at least there must be) to improve on the situation, but it seems that no matter what I do, she'll find a negative way to frame it. If I were to ask her for concrete direction, I'll just get "see, you don't know me" or something to that effect. More and more I see removing myself as the only damage control measure left. It's rough, because I hear that staying in the same house creates many more opportunities to DB, or makes the likelyhood of staying together much better. I can see the merits of this, but to some degree you always need two willing participants.
I am at peace, for the most part. Yes, she does seem childish. In fact, I think it's really remarkable how freely she lashes out. To me, this says that she really loves me, because people don't lash out like that against people they don't care about. She's also very secure in my love or else she wouldn't do that either. Yes, I have seen the tongue.
I was told the other day that I'm the cause of all her misery. So, cut out the cause and you'll be happy, right? Well, it's been 8 and a half months, and she isn't any happier. But I guess that's because she's not really with this guy. There are still obstacles there. Once she gets beyond all the obstacles, she'll be truly happy, right? What a depressing, tragic story.
Regarding talking with her - I do intend to discuss separation with her and our progress towards it. I think this will do a couple of things. It will put her at ease that I'm not in denial about anything and it will open the floor to agreeing on how we can interact to the mutual benefit of ourselves and our son.
This is a person who claimed to always want to be my friend, to always be close. Now she's doing everything she can to be rude, mean and disrespectful. Doesn't seem like she wants me in her life at all now. I guess she's changed her mind ever since she decided she wanted this other R exclusively. She had to see me as the bad guy, the person responsible for her misery, so she can justify leaving me and putting her happiness above that of our son. I wonder how long it will take her to realize that she has done this. I wonder if she'll live in this reality she constructed for years and years just so she doesn't have to eat crow. Who knows. I only know that I'll be a part of it for a limited time. I still want to save this marriage, and I'm dedicated to doing whatever I can. I think in a lot of ways, I've run out of options.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
It's sure hard to be reasonable with someone who is not reasonable! Maybe, you are right, introducing separation and discussing the ramifications may help the sitch. If that's what she wants then you are showing that you are open to what she wants. I know what it feels like to be dealing with a brick wall BUT who ever thought the Berlin Wall would ever crumble! Aside from my suggestions (cuz I am a man, fixing things ) I feel deeply for you in this sitch. Stick with it as long as you can, you'r still the hero!
Hi Muddle, Just got caught up with your new thread. While I think your letter was very eloquently written and heartfelt I do not think that you should send it. For one is will piss your W off and two you want the A to end because your W wanted it to. If OM breaks it off with her because of the letter your W will resent you even more.
I also think that a separation talk might be a good idea. She needs to fully understand everything that she is about to lose. What does OM have to lose? Is he M? Does he have kids?
Mama, thanks for being the voice of reason. I know you're right about W needing to be the one to turn away, but sometimes it's appealing to look at this as an addiction where once you remove the drug, the reasons for using become more apparent. I know you're right about creating resentment and pissing her off too. On some level I want to just toss her under a truck of her own design, but the fact is that she is doing it to herself, whether I contribute or not, and she's going to have to face the consequences.
OM has nothing to lose - except maybe his career - through this. He has no kids and is not M. His 10 year relationship broke up as a result of this, but it was on its way out. In fact, he decided 3 years ago to break up, but couldn't do it for one reason or another. I guess he needed a crutch to do so. The reason I say his career might be at stake is that he is in Europe, educated to be an urban planner (sociology). I'm not sure there's much of a market for that sort of job here, and he'd surely have to move here because W would lose S4 if she left. He'd also lose his friends and peers.
She needs to truly understand what she's losing, I know. At this point, she's under the impression that she'll stay in our house (rental that's too expensive for us now) and I'll move out to her mother's house because it's "best for S4" for them to stay there. And I'll pay for it. Truly delusional, but she thinks it's justified.
Thanks for you input and compassion. I'm doing well internally, I'm just having a difficult time watching my W create this world, and this version of me, that's so dark and sad. I know I can't control anyone else's actions or realities. Just have to keep on keepin' on.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Yes, I agree your W is not thinking clearly. Why in the world would she think you'd still pay for everything? I did this to my H a couple of months ago. I put it all out on the table in black and white. We would have to sell our house (which we can barely afford together and definitely couldn't apart), I would get an apartment and a full time job, kids would live with me but would have to be placed in before and after school care, blah, blah, blah. I guess it didn't paint a very pretty picture as H kept saying that he didn't want that for his family and he knew that the grass wasn't greener.... You're a smart person, you fully understand the consequences of a seperation, now to get your W to understand without being controlling, vindictive or manipulating.
I also understand how difficult and painful it is trying to save your M when there is a triangle (3 people). You have to let your W's R with OM fizzle out on its own with no interference from you.
Keep being the best Muddle that you can be, with morals, good values and integrity. Take care of yourself and your precious son!
Yes, this is why I need to consult a lawyer - so that all the facts are laid out by a professional. I will get on that soon. For now, it seems the more I leave her alone about OM, the more potential there is for them to realize that it's not what they thought and the costs are too high.
Alimony and child support. She thinks the state will give custody to her. I'm not so sure, but she might be right. She'll certainly have to get a full time job - and that will probably shatter her dreams of starting this business that she's finally working on. It's a consequence for her doing what she wants to do, but I do feel bad that she's finally trying to tackle something she's dreamt about for some time, and it will be thwarted by this.
I am really angry when I think about the possiblity that I might only be able to see my son every other weekend (and he won't get the father he deserves) because of this thing between my W and my cousin. It really disgusts me. Really.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
It's not going to come to that. But there has to be more than just parental roles. This is what my W is limiting it to. It's degrading the situation further. S4 said this afternoon in the car when I went to pick him up from school "mommy has a real bed downstairs." I have been wondering when he was going to ask me about why she's not sleeping in our bed, and I have no idea what I will tell him when he does. I wonder if he'll ask someone else first, like his teacher or my parents.
I am still going to try and plan to get my W out with me. Last weekend I tried to get her to go hear some music, but she ended up making plans with her friend (who didn't come through - yes, this is the cheerleader friend). When I later told her that I thought we had plans, she told me that she was only going to go because she thought it would make me feel good, she wasn't interested at all. So instead we did nothing. Oh well. There are a couple of movies that I'd like to go see with her, maybe I'll keep trying. It couldn't hurt to do fun things together, outside of the roles of parents. Although she'll no doubt find a way to frame them as attempts to make her miserable. Gotta stop assuming in this pessimistic way. She might surprise me and enjoy my company. She might be looking for light in me and my pessimistic assumptions might prevent my doing or saying the right things. I don't want to sabotage myself.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
