W Never Left, But This Is Tough!

[believing_isaiah43]

She says she's committed to the marriage because it's part of God's will for her/our life, to do her part, and trust that God will restore her feelings for me one day.

Reverse the genders and this is how my H feels. This is very very very hard to hear/live with/accept. I am working on letting it GO more and not throwing myself at the feet of my H, but at the feet of the Lord, who can ultimately make it all good again in spite of how bad it looks and feels on many days.

There are too many of us here, but we know how you feel.

[toughlover]

Thanks for the info folks, and thanks kml...any excuse for orgasms is good enough for me.

She tells me I've never looked better to her physically, and that my "bedroom skills" have always been great. Right now I'm just getting a "10" on the technicals and a "0" on the "emotionals".

She will go out on dates, go out and do lots of things. We're very involved in church these days, our son's football games and other sports, so we do a lot anyway as a family. She'll also go out on dates and pretty much do anything.

That's what makes this so difficult for me. She doesn't initiate much, but she responds to me all the time. But that was one of the things that made the marriage go south to begin with...we allowed the usual life problems to create distance between us, and I got bent out of shape that she stopped initiating affection, sex, or just being interested in me anymore, so I reciprocated, and we just grew apart.

Then things got really bad between us. No communication, didn't handle financial matters together, so we got into too much debt, etc. I let myself go, working all the time, very hostile at home, gained a lot of weight, and generally became unattractive, and so critical of her that she would have really have had to have her act together to help get me turned around, but she didn't. She just decided I wasn't worth it anymore.

Then OM was very nice to her, met all her emotional needs, they spent a lot of time together at church, both involved in the music program. He was on his second marriage at the time, and ended up divorcing his wife for mine. My wife was supposed to divorce me too, and they were going to just keep on lying, then pretend like they got together after she divorced me. The OM, incidentally, according to my wife, cheated on his first wife (but that was ok, cause, according to him, she cheated on him too), he cheated on his second wife (who was his age) with my wife, but now he and my wife had "real love" according to her. Yeah. She's 30 years younger, very pretty, and great personality (and some pretty hefty character flaws of her own, obviously).

As for me, I'm back to my old self, but better. Like I said, I've 180'd, GAL, PMA's, the whole nine. Not only have I reaffirmed my strengths (getting in shape again, better job, better income, a little more easy-going and fun, like in the old days) I've also done new things...wearing after shave which I never did before...dressing nicer, paying more attention to grooming (not that I was a slob before), taking her out to do things we never really did before, or hadn't done since before we were married. Get more positive attention from other women now, too :-)

In addition, I'm really attentive at home now (wasn't before, quit after our second son was born), very kind and sweet to her (and I have to say, she is a lot not nicer to me).

There's just no passion. And we once had plenty to spare. She acknowledges and notices all my positives, and appreciates them, just doesn't "feel anything."

I don't act needy, and I'm really not, but what I wouldn't give for her to just look at me like she used to (or throw herself at me like she used to).

It's like the OM is "perfect" because she broke it off cold turkey so his "wonderfulness" is frozen in time in her mind. I can't compete with that, and don't really want to, cause despite how wonderful she may see him, he's a cheater and a lier, a fake and a phony, getting up and singing about God's love every week in church while cheating on his wife and meeting my wife in hotel rooms, or at my house when I was out of town.

Doesn't say much for her, I know. But she's demonstrating a lot of character now. It's really all I have to hang my hat on.

What I am is real. Good father. Good husband. Decent provider. Haven't always been, but I saw my flaws clearly a few years ago and have been working on them ever since. This has just kicked it into overdrive, and I'm hanging in there despite her nonsense.

I've always been faithful, and always will be. I still adore her, though I have to say I'm not as attracted to her as I used to be just because of how seriously flawed I find her character. However, I'm very attracted to who she's trying to be now.

What I want is for her to come to me some day and just say, "Honey, I was so stupid. I was disappointed in you, but all I did was make things worse for everyone. I love you so much. Thank you for everything you've done for me and our kids." (the kids don't know, BTW, all they know is that we're getting along better than ever.)

Does that ever happen to anyone? I can't imagine her ever saying ILY again on her own, and really meaning it.

[cat03]

But I'm still not getting the ILY's, so I'm not giving them either...but I AM demonstrating my love, just not saying it. Think that's the way to go in this sitch?
It's wierd...I'm getting the sex, but not the ILY's...in all honesty, I'd rather have the ILY's, if I had to choose between the two.

Just counted how long my H has been back, FIVE months, no ILY ever, I say them now and then, I rather not say them often because I know he doesnt' feel that way yet. But I won't withhold my affection, we ML and he seems to enjoy it, we both initiate though it isnt' like before, any chance he got he'd get his hands on me-- now, I could be wearing next to nothing and hugging him and it would be a long while before he does something

Don't despair, 2 mths is still to early, after he came back to me my H was trying to contact OP just to ask why she had broken it off so badly, even sent her an expensive bouquet of flowers on her bday... they do need a while to wean themselves off the OP. So you are on the right track, frustrating yes, but you are on the right track, hold her hand, be affectionate and dont' ask any love questions yet.

I also -all modesty aside- think I look so much better than before, we went to a wedding last sunday, I prob looked nicer than most women there, we had a great time, but he only mentioned fleatingly that he thought I looked pretty... I remember all those notes to OP about how "beautiful" she was, how he couldnt' stop complimenting her, and it does hurt.

Then again, remember, they were using OP as their "fix", an addiction, we are the real thing.

What I want is for her to come to me some day and just say, "Honey, I was so stupid...

I stopped holding my breath for that one, as it is, my H is trying to collect himself, it might prob a while, if ever, for him to acknowledge my suffering, most likely he won't every bring it up so he can bury the past for good.

hang in there, fight the good fight, keep looking sharp, dont' you feel better about yourself? you not only put yourself back in shape for her but for you, you deserve it.

[toughlover]

Thanks for the advice/encouragement, Cat. I appreciate it, esp. from a woman's perspective.

I actually started running/working out before the bomb. I was diagnosed with diabetes at just about the time my W started up with OM. I lost some weight back then (around 25 pounds) but still needed to lose more.

The exercise really helps control my blood sugar better, and the weight loss makes my body use my own natural insulin more efficiently.

The thing that hurts me so much is that my main motivation for starting my 180 (before I knew it was a "180") was that I wanted to accomplish the following:

a) be in the best shape possible so I could live a long healthy life and take care of my wife and kids

b)save some $$$ on medicine and not be a physical mess as I got older so I could remain as independent as possible

c) give my wife the husband she married and could be proud of back, and make up for every one of my mistakes and give her the great life I promised her when we got married

I was about 70% there (or so I thought) when the bomb dropped. Being in such good cardiovascular shape probably saved my life or at least helped me deal with things better, cause it still hit me hard. Felt like I had an anvil on my chest for most of July.

Having already solved the financial problems and turned my career around has been important as well. I have way more confidence than I would have had if this had happened a year and a half ago.

Actually, aside from the fact that "my wife's been carrying on with a man her father's age for 3 years behind my back, in my house, and lying to me, our kids, our church, and extended family to make time to be with him, and planned on divorcing me, ripping my kids' world apart, and forcing us to all suffer the consequences of her lies" I feel great

Seriously, I do. And it made a difference even before I discovered DB/DR and this board. A few nights post-bomb, she and I sat on the back porch late one night talking after the kids went to bed, and here's what I told her (pre-DB):

"I love you and I forgive you. I don't want a divorce. I will not agree to one and I don't believe in divorce, I believe this marriage can be saved, I believe it's what's best for the kids, and me, and even you although you probably wouldn't agree right now or maybe ever, but that's ok. I will not leave my children for any reason, and if you decide to leave I will not lie to them, but I also will not disclose your adultery to them. However, if you push a separation and divorce, you will have to tell the boys it's your idea. I will be there to support them, not you, although I won't run you down or badmouth you, or stop you from leaving, and I won't blackmail you into staying by threatening to tell the boys what you've done. I want you back, but I know I'll eventually be fine whether you stay or leave. If you choose to stay, I guarantee you that I will give our marriage and family my absolute best from here on out, I will be the best husband and father you could ever dream of having. If you want to claim that and work to save this marriage, then you can't ever see this guy again, you need to email him that it's over and ask him not to contact you for any reason."

And she's done what I've asked. So far, and as far as I know (and, yes, I occasionally snoop a little...trust, but verify).

I think I did that more or less right, and the DB stuff confirmed it later. Of course, I also did a lot of the wrong stuff...crying, venting, saying hurtful things early on, smashing a cell phone ;-), but I snapped out of it pretty quick. I was a mess for a while, but I'm glad to say I didn't beg or plead...although I woke up crying every morning for a week, did all the "how could you do this to me" stuff.

And my wife has been my biggest cheerleader so far. She's noticed that the changes are real and mostly complete. In fact, our MC at first thought I was so great that he couldn't believe my W would choose anyone over me. She said, "Yes, this guy sitting here IS terrific, but that's not who I've been married to for the past 11 years." And she was right. And I accepted full responsibility and admitted all the lousy stuff I did, and promised to never do it again. So far, I've backed it up, and I do feel great about that.

I'm lucky in that I've not had to deal with my S's R with the OP while I've known about it, and also that my W never left and that she ended the A when I asked her to and recommitted myself to our M.

But in a way it's tougher for me cause she hasn't really had to suffer the full consequences of her actions, be alone, deal with things on her own. I told our parents (hers and mine) cause when she dropped the bomb she said it like our M was over and she was out of here, so I was going to move us back to the city our parents live in so they could be there for the kids. I mean, we'd only been in our new town for 5 days and didn't know anyone when she dropped the bomb. She figured we'd just agree to quietly divorce and keep to ourselves for as long as possible. When she saw me getting ready to pack up the kids and head for grandma's house 90 miles away, she said she never anticipated me doing that. I sometimes wonder if that wasn't the main shocker for her.

I feel kind of spoiled though because in all other ways she treats me great, just no real affection/interest. Maybe you're right, maybe it just needs more time. Sometimes I feel like I've given all I can, however, and can't go through this much longer without her reaching out to me. But, then I realize I still have it pretty good, so I need to quit whining and go fishing.

By the way, cat, I checked out your thread, and this quote from this article in one of your posts blew me away...sounds like it was written specifically for my W, and just nails it:

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of failing in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate - someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own - is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

[cat03]

that article pretty much described my H too, it gave me freedom from the monkey on my back (I was looking to see how the OP was better than me)

Maybe you're right, maybe it just needs more time. Sometimes I feel like I've given all I can,

We will feel like this often, I also feel like I'm running on empty, giving but not receiving, H never acknowledges my positive traits, so I guess we all have our own crosses to carry. But the main thing is that our Ss are back and that we now know what to do better and more of it

[toughlover]

Amen to that, cat!

My W is praising me...and I end up thinking, heck, if I'm that great, why aren't you just throwing yourself at me

BTW...just this last week, our MC quoted the verse from Jeremiah you've got in your sig. A good one.

[runningoutoftime]

I also feel like I'm running on empty, giving but not receiving, H never acknowledges my positive traits,

Me too!!!!!!!!! I feel exactly the same way and I envy OW all the phone calls she got from my husband who hates talking on the phone and never in 21 years ever called me as much!!!

Actually it's kind of reassuring to hear that this is somewhat typical of these spouses.

ToughLover,
I don't know if anyone else has recommended this book to you before but I think it's called "The Passionate Marriage." I've heard it's very good. I think it might be a Christian book as well. BTW, from what I've read, most women don't have orgasim without clitorial stimulation. That's very normal.

I agree with all the other posters here that it's probably going to take awhile for your wife to get those feelings back. My husband's not good with the ILYs either. I'm hoping I'll eventually hear them, but I'm not expecting it for awhile. In the meantime just have fun and don't be hesitant to give love. I don't think we lose anything by giving to others.

[toughlover]

I don't think we lose anything by giving to others.

Thanks! I needed that. So true.

One thing our MC has me doing is working on truly loving her unconditionally. That's tough, but I believe that's what God calls husbands to do. Unfortunately, I'm a woefully imperfect human being and often get distracted by what I'm not getting right now.

One thing our MC has us doing is focusing on love and respect. He's also a pastoral counselor so in addition to the usual pragmatic stuff, we've asked him to work with us in a pastoral sense as well, keeping Biblical and all that.

One thing Paul tells husbands and wives in Ephesians is this:

"However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

So, he's got her focusing on respecting me right now (since, in addition to everything else, there's no greater way for a wife to disrespect her husband than to give herself to another man), and he's got me focusing on loving her unconditionally, even sacrificially. One effect being...I lost a major amount of respect for her because of her lack of character in doing this, and I need to respect someone to really trust them and be happy with them, so focusing on loving her right now not only keeps things constructive, but gives her the time and the opportunity to earn my respect back if she so chooses.

Lemme say this: it ain't fun. Not fun at all. It does seem to work, especially when coupled with the DB stuff.

In fact, since my wife's heart is not really with me yet, but her mind is, I'm sort of doing some DB-Lite ... keeping some distance, doing things on my own, but still taking time to be with her.

But the facts are: she's here, taking care of the home, the kids, and even me (just not all there yet); she's committed (so far, so good); and while things are not where I really want them to be between her and I, they're probably better than they've been in years in all the other ways...maybe even better than they've ever been.

I still can't see how she thought what she was doing was a good idea, though. That's part of the problem for me...when I look at that, I just see her as a major train wreck...and it's hard to love a train wreck.

[runningoutoftime]

I still can't see how she thought what she was doing was a good idea, though. That's part of the problem for me...when I look at that, I just see her as a major train wreck...and it's hard to love a train wreck.

I really like that your MC has your wife focusing on respect. That's very good...

I definitely understand your feelings about how the S could make this decision in the first place. One thing I like about the "Not Just Friends" book it explains how easily these affiars can occur even in good marriages (by people who don't believe affairs are right!). According to the book the whole thing is not recognizing or holding to boundries, and this can happen much more easily then expected. There's a really good example in the book describing a relationship gradually going that direction.

We can look in it in a technical psycho-analytical manner, but I know when it boils down to it the whole thing hurts. It's a betrayal by someone we trusted and that's hard. Even when you understand how it can occur (which does help a little!).

I think this is our challenge, in the long run we'll learn a lot and become stronger people even though it hurts.

Here I talk, but my husband's not even in the house committed to working on things yet. We're only talking about "possible reconciliation." I have to say I do respect your wife for doing what's right and coming back to you. I don't think it's easy for them either. But time really will help.

[dwh]

Toughlover,
I'm interested how your sitch is going. Mine is similar . . . My H is trying to work on our marriage but says he just has no desire or attraction towards me anymore. Like you, I have made big changes in the marriage and am in the best shape of my life. I'm beginning to wonder if there's any hope.