Quote: Overall I don't think there is a set pattern for men or women. There are similarities in genders, but I think it is the two individuals and the dynamics that makes each relationship.
Agreed. I want to state to everyone that THIS thread / discussion is focusing on the 'codependent' dyanmic we've been describing.
Not meant to make everyone think that THEIR sitch is like MY sitch was or others like us. However, for many of us there is a common pattern to how we all got here.
We fell in love with women or men who were happy, fun and loving. What we didn't see (and they didn't see either) was that neither them, or us, were prepared to deal with a time when WE weren't able to be 'the leader' of the relationship.
We had always been the leader, the person to pick the other one up when we were down, the one who thought up all the fun stuff to do. We filled that empty space inside them, not because we HAD to but because we simply existed, and loved them with all our hearts.
When we couldn't carry our own emotional weight - their empty spots got empty again. Our spots that WE kept filled started to empty too. And neither of us were able to 'step up to the plate' and pull the other out of the hole.
WE needed them like never before, but they COULD NOT support us because they DID NOT KNOW HOW.
Sure, they loved us to death. But as time went on the space we were filling for them - out of our love for them - got more and more empty. OUR place got empty too. We needed them badly then but it wasn't going to happen.
Why? Well I can only speak for my sitch of course. In my case my W was sexually abused as a child. Her parents didn't 'clue in' that it was happening for TWO YEARS. Even though the signs were all there. They were morons. She was 12 years old. And we're talking rape by a 14 year old who was a BABYSITTER.
It wasn't until 2 years AFTER it ended that she felt 'safe' enough to tell them directly what had happend and other than some 'anger', not a F*ing thing was done. Where was her father (A$$hole)
So, she spent the major part of high school as the class 'partyer'. Sometimes she was so stoned she doesn't remember who she slept with.
Why?
In counseling it became clear that it was her way of controlling men, of controlling her sexuality. She was abused by one 'male' and her father, her dominant male, failed to protect her. So her only way to 'be in control' was to act out sexually and be the one controlling the sexual experiences.
In our marriage she was faithful for 15 years. For her, that was a record. But what really went wrong with us?
Well, the simple answer is that she 'lost her voice' when she was younger, and I didn't realize it. Neither did she.
She had decided that she could NOT 'talk back' or 'be assertive' to her HUSBAND. Why? Because she could not do it with her FATHER, with her ABUSER, or with any male.
So when I was in my sh*t, I did a lot of things that she took as hurtful. I didn't think they were but she did and she NEVER said anything to me. But the real issue was that she NEVER HELPED ME when I was way way down emotionally. In fact, when I was down SHE was down and she needed ME to reassure her all the time. Hell, I was in the crapper and I didn't believe that _I_ was going to be alright yet I still did my best to reassure HER that we'd be fine.
So, over time, she lost faith in me. In reality it was because she never had faith in herself. She never knew how to be a partner in a real relationship.
We have been to lot's of counseling and you all know (well those who follow my rambling threads anyway) that we have gotten back together and it's going to be all right.
In the counseling we both learned that she COULD NOT help me when I was feeling down. Because she had no voice. She could only watch me suffer, watch me hurt and maybe yell at me when the pain got bad enough for her. I needed a friend to basically kick my a$$ and get me past the doubts I had. She WANTED to but she COULD NOT. She had lost her voice.
SHE COULD NOT DO IT. That's the ONE point I want to make as we discuss this unbalanced, codependent relationship. She loved me to death. She thought I was the man of her dreams. She WANTED to 'fix me'. She did. Her childhood issues prevented her from doing that. Nothing more. She LOVED me. It never stopped. She just gave up and needed a 'fix' to fill the hole.
And, because she really really needed ME to carry her, when I couldn't she was slowly getting emptyer and emptyer.
I used to resent her for not 'helping me' and then for 'running off with another man' when she decided she was so unhappy she couldn't stay. Her affair was incredibly painful and even she says that she knows that her saying 'I told you I wanted a divorce' doesn't make it hurt any less.
It was only because SHE came tounderstand that I was the best man she had ever met. Because I had never given up on her, on us. Even though I was willing to totally let her go, to let her find somoene else to love if that was what she needed.
She and I now have a much greater understanding of each other. I know that I MUST take the time to really listen to her words, and to understand what she is really needing from me. SHE knows that even if she tells me things she thinks will make me mad that I WILL NOT LEAVE HER.
That was part of the issue. She was afraid that if she used her 'voice' I would leave her. Now she knows that I won't. She also knows that even if I DID leave, she would be all right. But I won't leave.
But more than that, she knows that she SHOULD tell me things that she thinks I don't want to hear. Get it? Talk about things that are uncomfortable. In your marriage you do NOT want to 'be politically correct' or 'suffer' so as not to hurt your partners feelings. Every time YOU absorb some hurt, it's a negative entry into your 'love bucket'.
I know I'm rambling, and I hope my experiences trigger some ideas and emotions in your own sitch's. It all comes down to this:
We were not whole people in ur old relationship.
we loved each other as best we could.
Because of WHO WE ARE we are the best possible fit for each othe IF WE LEARN THESE TRUTHS. Trust me, I know.
As the LBS, we are the ones who have been educating ourselves. We now understand how we both got here. It's our job to be patient and do the best we can to support the WAS as they go on their journey, learning the truths we have learned.
Many of us came from imbalanced relationships. Because WE know the truth, WE will never let that happen to us again. If our spouses see that also, together we can build an incredible life together. We need to give them time.
I'm only a 'success' at 'db-ing' because my W was able to look at herself, and see that what she was doing was really an old pattern. It was only hurting herself. The OM was just as confused and messed up as she was.
And she knew, inside, that she was really just running.
I'm pretty lucky she saw that. I was also very very patient.
