I am bouncing back and forth on boards--not sure where I belong?
My sitch:
H: MLC, had/has(?) long term PA 2-3yrs, we S, H home now 6 mo., BUT EA continues( yes I do the antiDB of checking computer and snooping, I have come to believe I am better off knowing where I/We are in this journey) H has contact by phone stil with OW and does email. H depressed, very silent,& most of all totally silent regarding the past A, our R, no MC. H does not see IC, I do see C.
Me: past the stage of believing we will suddenly live happily ever after. I have not brought up any A talk, & I try to bring up R talk at the "right" moments. Rare moments when I act as if everything is "normal", lighten up, have some great times with him ( trips, ML, flowers and gifts from H)
I have asked H outright about any continued contact probably once a month in the last 6 mo. and get an answer of "yes, just to check in" any further attempts have brought H to hang his head in silence or get statements " sorry I hurt you."
leads me to sadly believe H's silence can mean:??????????? continued strong EA for sure H thinks he can be "more careful" this time and continue PA H does not want to stop EA-- H is/was her rescuer, close to her 3 children, i don't know much about OW, trying not to go there in my mind. OR H truely thinks he is physically at home, to him that's trying, and he can have us both.
My GAL has come a long way since the big bomb and I know I will be ok no matter what, I continue to work on me and know I can only work on me.
BUT!!! I need help on telling H that an EA , or continued PA, is a part of this I know about and need to detach from. I am not at all good at expressing myself, especially when I try, H hangs his head in silence. I tried writing my thoughts to him, the last letter was about a month ago, after I tested positive for HPV for the first time after 20 yrs. of paps! His response again was silence.
my gut feeling is that to continue to keep me strong, H needs to know why I can't continue to act "as if" NOT to let on that I snoop, not to give an ultimatum, but to somehow communicate that I cannot pretend we are piecing, keeping this silence has not worked for me.
Looking for help to communicate this to H. Let him see that I am so willing to work on M, but not at the price of deceivement.
To those here hard work at piecing, where I have read many strong and encouraging words, thanks.
sounds like depression still has strong hold of him, he's looking on all the wrong places to find solace to his emptiness (OW). About the HPV test, all he did was hang his head? not good, he might just want confort from you at this stage and that's why he cant give to you fully.
You want your H back, but it seems he is in the tunnel yet. He so needs a T, could actually find a dr and ask him to let you make an appt for him, you say he wont' go to MC, maybe he'll go to a T just for him.
Honey, I'm sorry you are going through this, don't try to "save" your H at your expense, please take care of yourself))))))))))
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
More rambling from me, Cuz i really feel like rambling tonight and I know H is not ready for that!!!!
But I did finally, and realy had to do it for myself. I brought up the subject of a continued connection betwn OW and himself.
Because I had read email correspondence from H to OW, I have known they are communicating and this is totally causing my own whacko feelings. I know others may think very differently, but knowing the turth between the OW and my H helps me stay stronger for myself, like no false hopes.
But I did start R ?'s to H, simply asked "do you still communicate?" When I got an angered answer of "yes, some occasional joke emails, just like thousand others do!" it made it very hard to keep silent about knowing there is more. I told H my gut feeling was that there was still a connection between the 2 of them, because H seems unhappy at home.
this angered H, he walks out and drives away. Just like so many times in the past, he tends to run, or hang his head in silence. Rarely yells , but runs.
This time I should feel more positive, he came home after half hour, and apologized in a letter and said "i know running is not the answer" We hugged, said ILY's, But H did not mention OW. Not a denial, nothing. So I know the connection with her is there and knowing she is there, like a vulture on the outside!!!!! so yes alot of this is my continuing letting her get in my head, but at the same time H has me back, and also he has his email and calls to her at the same time---that's the not so good part for my PMA
Now last 2 days H sulky, quiet. Yes, H does need a C, but to approach that with him, again very touchy, gonna continue my waiting and patience, if the time seems right, would like to offer to help with C appointment, but will wait and see. For now I will swear about H here!!!!!, thanks and hugs.
Hi jeanb, My sitch is the same as yours (except I don't get any ILY's). H moved out and lived with OW for 4 months. She had to move out of the country, and he moved back home. Has been home now for a year. The first 4 months he was still depressed, and sent messages to OW regularily. In Dec. I discovered messages to OW2 (EA "only"), and in May OW3, after which I confronted him and he dismissed the messages as "jokes". He said OW's are his friends, and it's none of my business anyway. After I told him I had seen the messages in May, he has erased everything from his phone. So now I don't know if he has been contacting OW's. I think he doesn't call them in person, he doesn't like talking in the phone. But the messages stroke his ego. If I didn't know about the contact, I'd think things are really good for us. Otherwise they are.
So I don't really have any advice for you... I wish I knew better. I keep hoping that when we make even more progress, he won't need the secret messages anymore. Other times I feel I should make a stand and tell him to start behaving like a married man. But I think he should figure it out by himself. But then again, will he ever?
I'm glad talking about it worked for you, even just a little bit. My H also has a tendency to run...
Dauphne, thanks for you thoughts. I also saw your recent posts, and yes do see many similaritys.
I also believe, no I know, H still emails and phones the OW, and I wrestle constantly about waiting it out, or speaking up. Many times I think that telling H I know about continued contact would help myself. As you say, this is not how a married man acts, this is not healthy for our own R, and it is plain dangerous and NOT right.
Yes, H and I had small talk--for him any talk is huge and straining, and the positives for me are the ILY's, ML, and talking baby steps for a closer R. However we did not speak at all about the continued EA he is having with her. For myself I do think H thinks he does not want to loose this R with her, this stroking of his ego, that H may think can stay "his friend", but I am alsway reminding myself that a PA was present before and very well could be now or in the future.
So many times I want to ask him if he ever thinks of the danger and hurt it puts on myself and the M, by any continued R with the OW, but in the back of my mind, I know H must come to this conclusion and I cannot make him. For myself, I am continuing on my watchful, but cautious piecing and daily reminding myself what I must continue to do for ME, for me to better my own journey.
But in the meantime I, like you, feel I am constantly vigilant. You mentioned the text on his cell that his former OW coming in, I also still check my H's email every few weeks to see what is up. Another way I look at is, if I ever tell H I know his computer password, or for yourself if your H aware you see his cell, there goes the window for us to be aware of reality.
Do you feel stronger when you look, knowing you are keeping your eyes open to monitor the whole situation and not blindly accepting all they say and do as the total truth? I feel whether it helps or hurts my attitude, I need to be in touch with reality and if these ego centered H's need their OW to maintain their stroking, then yes it does empower me to stay strong for myself.
But at the same time I would not blurt out that I know about the vulture OW lurking on the sidelines. I use this info. to remind myself to keep DB.
So sorry you are also seeing this and know your H's OW coming in this month. Remind yourself as I constantly do of all the positives you have made, I would tell you to keep a "wait and watch" approach and continue to be the loving, confident person he chose to be with.
I would love others to add their thoughts on how they are piecing with WAS while we, the LBS are aware the OP is still a part of thier lives, be it PA or EA?
thanks for your words, yes I believe H is definitely depressed and I saw you posted your H was depressed . WAs it was a big part of your H's reconnection to you when he sought help? When I mentioned to my H that he seems "unhappy" it brought anger to his voice, "NO, can't you see I am back, we are being a couple again, we are intimate, blah, blah"--but said with a tone of "leave that subject alone"
So thinking I must wait and see if H at anytime brings it up. I think the guilt of still having EA could be doing this also, unless to their egos they don't feel the guilt, they just need the stroking from the EA and is still in his own little poor me world.?
Thinking I am just journaling out loud and reminding myself that I need to continue to give this time, but was there a time when your H appreciated you bringing up the depression issue or seeking help? Hard to come off supportive, but at the same time realizing how much I cannot not fix for him and H needs to realize this all on his own.
Jeanb, I already lost my channel of info by telling him I saw his messages in May. In a way I'm relieved that I don't have to see something that really upsets me. Because that's what it did to me, my world collapsed every time I opened his inbox and saw what the OW's had written to my H. And still I kept my mouth shut for months, until I just couldn't take it anymore.
I don't think H realizes how much the messages hurt me. I wonder if I should tell him? Well, in May when I said I was worried, he just told me to stop worrying. Like it's no big deal.
Looking back I'm glad that I was so patient with him last fall, when he was messaging back and forth with OW all the time. Obviously he had a hard time letting OW go. Had I raised the question then, we might not be here now.
And one thing, the messages from OW1 where so boring, she never had anything interesting to say! Just the same old I love you more and more blah blah blah. Maybe that worked to my advantage...
Ok, maybe I'll just wait and see what happens.
And about how a married man should act, well if they knew that they never would have had the OW in the first place... I do hope they have learned by now that it didn't help.
I suck when it comes to this aspect of DBing. I understand the snooping-I did it too-but I'm not sure I can understand the keeping silent about it. To me it comes down to what's important for you and your continued growth. Is it having a husband physically present and occasionally intimate or is it the whole ball of wax-the emotions as well as the physical? But I suppose over time that things will either improve until you can have it all or you'll get tired of this charade and go your own way.
My feeling is that he's found a successful way of getting you off his back. He gets upset at you and runs away, comes back, mutters an apology, and poof, problem gone, the subject of OW is dropped. I'm not saying continue the argument with him about the OW, but at some point you might have to search your soul and determine if this way is right for you. You may find that you need to confront him with what you know and say that you can't live this way anymore-either get with the program, discontinue contact with OW, or get out. The OW may just be a symptom, but it isn't your fault, and it's an impediment to any progress. Your H's problems aren't your own, but you still control what you do with your life and what you want out of it. At some point, if this doesn't stop, I would think you'd start to consider whether this half-marriage is really what you need for a fulfilling life. Besides, kicking him to the curb might be the incentive he needs to actually wake up and take ownership of his problems.
Just idle rambling for the day.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: WAs it was a big part of your H's reconnection to you when he sought help?
No, he was depressed BIG time, he'd talk to me and tell me how miserable he was, I helped him find drs and therapist, (while away on the on-off R w/op) he'd still go back to her, I was just his emotional blanket
Quote: they just need the stroking from the EA and is still in his own little poor me world.?
Could be, they are so down in the dumps that they might still try to make the A their answer, but many times not even that would help my H, I have never seen him as miserable as when he was away
Quote: but was there a time when your H appreciated you bringing up the depression issue or seeking help?
During our 8yr M, he has had 2 really bad depression episodes, the first time we had a great pastor who directed him to dr and meds. It didn't work and he stopped the meds, so after that he never wanted anything to do with drs or anti-d meds. I knew it'd anger him if I suggested a dr. Only when he was away and was utterly miserable he did agree to C and meds
The very first C we saw explained to us how depression works: the first time it hits you you fall in a small hole, you stay there a little but eventually you get out of it. Second time, it's a bigger hole, you stay there longer, but you do get out of it too w/time. The third time it's such a big hole you can't get out or it takes you forever, that's when meds would really help.
I so understand how you want to help but are unable, it's something he has to do on his own, I highly recommend the book "talking to depression" got it from the library and thought me now to say things that belittle their pain such as "it isnt' so bad" "it will be OK dont' worry". They mostly tell you to listen and not to downgrade their pain.
It is so hard seeing them this way, one wants to help but there is only so much you can do before you are depressed yourself, so remember that, don't drag yourself down, he will have to fight this on his own.
I also agree whole-hearltly with Just_me, it isnt' fair to you to know he still contacts op, a body can only take so much.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Justme,and others-thanks for the thoughts and good wishes
lots of mixed emotions I must write away now, so much ambivalence to this whole crazy sitch. If I don't pound on these keys now, may do something really stupid.
Where have I/we?, this marriage really been the last few months. As I said H home physically but where is our R now? Sadly I don't know. sadly the silence continues for months.
Do actions speak louder than words? Words are something my H could never do well. H is a giver, a writer of his emotions, an action man to show his love to me. He admits he could/and still cannot express his feelings about any of the past A. Because he is still involved? EA? PA? i don't know.
I've been sitting so often in thought wondering the little that I know for sure ( from opening very few emails between them.) These occasional emails between my H and the long term OW is my only window of insight I have. Silence on his part has always been part of our M, how much do I realy know that may or may not be a continuing EA/PA? on their parts? is my mind getting the most of me tryng to read between the lines? and does my mind add my own insecurities? It sure does!
many here may say this is totally not good for me and I wrestle with that decision.
I was so surprised at words my individual C had for me,"would you wait for cancer to return?" and also reminding me of something I do know but probably need to continue to beat on my brain, the fact of me NOT being able to turn off his emotions for her, and me NOT being able to fix him.
Have I made these few emails that seem "friendly and just checking in" between my H and OW to be an obcessed imagined continung sordid secret A? or is H still playing the game and keeping us both? Do I let the emails alone and let it die a "natural death?"
This is constantly on my mind. An I closing the door to reconnection because I cannot forgive and am I just waiting to "catch him red handed?" or trying to keep myself prepared, to never be lied to again, cheated on again.??? ready if I "catch" him to say I will not be part of a triangle again. Therefore letting me totally detach and H to deal with the consequences.
Yesterday i made a vow to myself to continue to look at all the positives H & I have made over the last months, and a vow to keep this vulture OW out of my head. Decided the hyper vigilance was doing me no good, --This only lasted about 48hrs.
Yesterday H tells me he is going to visit a cousin overnight at cousin's lakehouse. Yes, H did spend last night at cousins, but today H leaves me voicemail while I am at work telling me he is staying later. By "coincidence" the OW lives very close by to the lakehouse and this was the excuse H would give me last year when A going on. I know for a fact H left his cousin and I just don't want to call his cell to "check up". I so wanted to hear words from h of assurance that H understood that going away overnight would make me anxious and that H wants to build trust, but words from him never came. H left and I smiled on the outside saying "have fun"
Why do I want to just bust him? do others lie here waiting as I do to catch them in their lies? Feeling if I could bust him outright it would stop the rollercoaster of second guessing, am i just waiting for him to screw up even if it is not ture?
do others feel this way too?
Do I need to keep getting this OW out of my brain and focus on the positives H and I have, or continue my vigilance and put up my defense, vowing I will find out for sure and then let h know that it is not right for me to continue pretending we are piecing with OW still in the picture.
ok, realize I am really just writing a wake up note to myself, but at the same time wanting to take the few hour drive to OW's house and find out for sure.
Maybe someone lives in Midwest and wants to go on a road trip with me!!!!!! I've imagined myself doing that now for 2 years, but proud of the fact, I"ve have had the dignity not to.
for now I will sit here and write to myself and this board, thanks, BUT maybe a roadtrip--someday!!!!
