Quote: This morning, on my way to dropping off D6 at school I went to school and OM's car was parked out front and W was pulling out of the garage. We didn't talk, but she did call me to ask me how I am doing and to ask a favor. I told her I am doing great and told her no on the favor. She then called MIL and told MIL that I treated her rudely in telling her I would not do her a favor.
HH, my W would start to reach out to me when OM didn't call her for a few days, or didn't 'respond' to her. Then he would call and everything was all better and I was crap again. I could tell when he called by that behavior and cel phone records always confirmed it.
It was uncanny that he would back off long enough (probably banging his girlfriend he lived with, who he, uh, broke up with) till he got a sense she was 'getting away' and he would give her the 'fix' she neded to keep her on the hook.
And of course, to keep his ego boost.
My Counselor said this is classic 'user / Emotional Predator' style. Textbook.
It will end. That you can be sure of. He doesn't want her. Only his ego does.
Quote: My guess is that W did not tell MIL that OM was over again last night. W is setting such nice boundaries in her new love life. Lie to me, cheat on me, make no changes and I'll take you back into my life and my bed. Nice. She is certainly NOT the woman I thought I married. Sad.
I'm sure MIL doesn't believe her, and no, she is not the girl you married right now. You know, 'Space Aliens' took her brain away.
IN the words of the Emporer in Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back - "everything is proceeding exactly as I fortold it would". Bwaaa Haaa HAaa!
Yesterday W asked me to take some pics of a property and download them onto the computer at work. I didn't get to it today and then after I saw OM's car at her house she calls me to ask me if I had done it. No response from me. She then texts me and asks me again. Again, no response. Then, the calls again and tells me that she knows that I saw what I saw and that I am pissed and it's NOT what I think. Still no response.
I called my good friend and he told me what he always tells me which is she's not going to cut you any slack. She feels the marriage is over and is acting that way and ONLY you are holding on. He tells me to text her back that the pics were downloaded onto the computer like I said I would do.
But NO, I can't do it the easy, right, DB/DR way, I have to do it MY F-ing way, because I have done such a great job on my own up 'til now. NOT! I call her and speak to her and tell her you made two comments on your last msg and I would like to respond to one and ask a question of the other. May I? She agrees and I tell her that NO, I am not pissed. I then asked if it's not what I think it is, what is it? She tells me that it wasn't planned. So I asked her, since we are being so open and honest, did he just show up unannounced? She said no, she invited him over b/c she wanted to clarify some things. I asked her if she got clarity, and she said she did not. I told her that I did get clarity and thanked her.
We talked for quite awhile and I re-iterated my feelings about hoping for the rebuilding, restoration, and reconciliation of our M. She said well, I do and did always want our M to be successful but I was unhappy because of the way you treated me. She told me that she lost her feelings for me but still loves me. Those lost feelings resulted in her NOT wanting to have sex.
I asked her if she remembered what our MC told her about her low libido with her husband. She said she didn't (convenient, huh?). I asked her, what did you do to remedy that problem? She said she prayed every day and dug deep inside herself to find answers within herself. She said she couldn't find any. I reminded her that our MC told her that she had a classic Madonna complex, which according to MC meant that she lost interest in sex when the R was no longer new and tittilating. When sex became routine/expected/normal, she longed for something new and more exciting. Of course, that did not sit well with W, but today she allowed that there might actually be something to her having a Madonna complex. WOW!
I then re-visited the fact that she said, "I do want our marriage to work out but I don't think I can get those lost feelings back and I don't want to be in a loveless marriage. I answered back that neither do I. I wouldn't take our old M back for anything. That would be a recipe for disaster. I told her I would want to reconcile and build our M anew, making it more loving, nurturing, fun, etc. I then took a deep breath and asked her, I know we are headed towards a D. Are you ending our M? She said well, that's where we are headed. I said I know that, but that takes 6 months. Are you ending our M? It takes two people to get married and only one person to get a D. Are you going to take us through that door? I told her, if the answer is yes, just say so, I have been preparing for that all along. Long pause.
Again, deep breath. I said, what if anything are you willing to do to see if our M is salvagable? She said I don't know what to do. I can't answer that question b/c I don't know what to do. I said your answer could be anything from anything to nothing. I told her if her answer is nothing, then say nothing. I am prepared for that. She said that we've tried MC and that didn't work. I asked her if she would be willing to do a counseling session with me and she said who? I told her that I had already had two sessions with this C individually (Vernetta) and explained that I found her through DB (the book I reminded her that I loaned her that she still has) and explained that she is an SBT counselor and what SBT is. SBT is what W was looking for from our MC and couldn't get. W wanted results then. I furher explained that results are what SBT is all about. Where are we, where do we want to go, what is the best and fastest way to get there since anyone going to MC is in crisis. She agreed to do one counseling session with Vernetta and see how she felt after that. I simply asked her to do the session with me with an open heart and an open mind. She said she would.
THAT conversation resulted in more movement in my sitch than the entire previous 6 months. 1. She said she does want our M to work out but doesn't know what to do and is doubtful she will recapture her positive feelings for me as her husband and 2. she said she would do one counseling session with Vernetta and see how she felt after that. Before that conversation, I hadn't heard much at all along those lines, especially along the lines of a willingness to do counseling with Vernetta to see how she felt afterward.
Now, I need to call the staff phone # to see about setting up this C session with Vernetta. I hope Vernetta is back from her sabbatical.
I know that most of this may mean nothing and noting may come of this. But that fact wouldn't make any worse off than I already was. The outlook for our M looked bleak at best.
And now, the real scary part. I am looking for advice from my DB/DR brethren on how best to proceed. I don't want to stamp out this sliver of sunlight in my sitch. Also, I need the phone # for scheduling an appt. with Vernetta. All help will be greatly appreciated.
Prayers an positive thoughts needed for DB/DR telephone consultation with Vernetta tomorrow, 09/07/06 at 9:30 AM PST. I am so excited and afraid at the same time. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE pray to God so that He will work a miracle in my sitch and help my W see the value in a MC session that I set for us. I am praying now.
A lot has happened in the past week. We have had movement in our sitch and this is the first REAL movement we have had in 6 months. My W is still involved with OM, on again, off again. She is being emotionally hurt regularly and putting up with it because her self esteem has been in the red for quite awhile now. I know two things for sure: 1) OM will F up again and hurt her again b/c he is only using her for his ego and 2) her self esteem WILL recover and she WILL value herself enough to stop herself from abusing herself and our R.
UPDATE: I just spoke with her and she tells me that she doesn't know if she has the time to participate in the session because she is, in her teenage vocabulary, 'hella' busy. No judgement, I just find it amusing when I talk with people in their 30's and their vocabulary is that of a 13 year old skate punk. I know she will grow. I just don't know when.
I asked her if she ahd even read the info on the DB/CR website, particularly the FAQ and she said NO. I asked her to please do that and call me back. She said she is soo tired and asked if she could let me know tomorrow. I told her that I wished she would read the information tonight and give me an aswer tonight. I told her I really hate finding out anything at the last minute. She asked to get off the phone and told me she would read the DB/DR info and call me back.
I used a line from Frank D. I told her that Tom needs to move forward with his life and he is. I have grown a great deal during our sitch and the Tom train is leaving the station soon and I would like nothing more than if she would be with me. Her response was that she will look at the info and call me back.
I told her in parting that I was not giving her an ultimatum. I told her that if she didn't choose to participate that that was just more information for me to grow with and from. And now I wait for her return call anxiously.
I am not a betting man, by nature, but I am betting that my return call will NOT come tonight, it will come tomorrow morning. My other bet is that OM will be there tonight and tomorrow in the AM and THAT is what her hesitation is all about. I keep saying to myself, "Oh, the tangled web we weave when we lie." But as Frank quoted from the Superior Man, Women Are NOT Liars; (to a person with a feminine essence) words and facts simply take a second place to emotions and shifting moods of the relationship.
When my W agreed to our C session, I was more pliable and agreeable to her demands and wishes and she was more open to my thoughts, feelings, and observations. Today, she broguth up (again) her reasons for wanting to take our S1 out of daycare and hire a nanny. I told her my concerns and reservations. I told her that OM is NOT allowed to be at her house when I come to drop off our chidren or I will enroll our S in another daycare without any hesitation. I asked her if I had made myself clear on this and she said yes. I re-interated my point and told her there are NO 2nd chances on this point, that safeguarding our children from any damage is my primary concern. She said she understood. I told her, I trust your instincts as a mother, it's your behavior as an sdult woman that give me cause for concern
2nd point from today. She told me that she is going to Tahoe in two weeks with friends of ours and that THAT is her weekend with our children. She wanted to know if I would watch our children and I told her I'd have to check. Instantly, she became highly agitated and asked my why I needed to be so difficult. Mind you, all I said was I'd have to check. Her agitation grew and I held my ground and told her that I needed to get off the phone with her, that I didn't feel I needed to take abuse from her on the phone.
Lateer on, we talked again. She tends to do this; broach a subject, expect me to make a snap decision in her favor within seconds, and if I don't, she suddenly loses her availability to continue on the conversation. I've stopped agreeing to her 'plans' that took her quite a while to hatch in the few seconds she expects me to make a decision in her favor. THAT pisses her off. THAT is me being so difficult. I say, NO, THAT is me asserting my rights as a parent, which is what her 'plans' generally pertain to.
Anyway, I tell her that I will NOT switch weekends with her because she made plans on HER weekend with our children. I have made this same point on more than one occasion. I have always told her that I will be with our children on MY weekends and I will generally be with them on HER times, but I will NOT switch weekends just to accomodate her and her choices. I also told her that I truly felt she left out a BIG portion about that weekend in Tahoe. She asked me, you thing OM is going don't you. I repeated that I felt she left a LOT of info about her weekend away. She then said that she commited to going a couple of months ago and she didn't want to cancel now because it was only two weeks away. I asked her, so cancelling would cause them to cancel their weekend? She said, NO, their weekend did not depend on her attending. I don't believe much of what she says and I certainly don't believe this. She has plans to go with THE OM or another OM and I am NOT here to accomodate her 'single' play time with regard to our children. I will not plan my life around her everpresent to do things that don't involve our children on HER weekend and then listen to her whine that she misses them so much. Hell, she always has company to distract her and keep her from bonding/connecting with our children, whether those be play dates for her and the children or her 'me' time.
I also told her what Frank told me, that I have grown incredibly during our time apart and have learned the direction in which MY life needs to progress; the Tom train is leaving the station soon, and I truly hope she'd leave the station with me, because I am leaving soon regardless.
I told her tonight to please read the DB/DR info and get back to me. Instead she chose to log on to MySpace.com and F around. It burns her a$$ that I know when she is on MySpace. I did text her telling her that it's awfully difficult to give consideration when she was busy being distracted on MySpace. She just tuned me out, as she usually doesn.
I do know that she listens to me, regardless of what I present to her and whether or not she likes what I have to say. She actually told me this, as did her friends. It's truly a strange dynamic, but she respects me in many ways, unfortunately, not in the husband way, right now. That's OK, I have time and patience on my side by the grace of God. I asked her 2 days ago whether she had figured out who and what she is running from. Surprisingly enough, she gave me a quick and lucid answer. She said me, myself, and I is who I am running from and I am running from my problems that I don't want to face. She also told me that OM was another distraction for her to NOT have to face real life, and that's why she hadn't told him to F-off yet, despite his sh*tty treatment of her. She said, it (her R with him) just doesn't matter. I told her that I beg to differ; that she is person of value and many people in her life care deeply and therefore ALL matters that touched her life MATTER. I do feel sorry for her even though she is treating me like sh*t and acting like a BRAT. Her selr-esteem tank is on EMPTY. Being that low, distractions, even unpleasant distractions have to be better than facing what you feel to be a worse reality. Unfortunately, I would give her the same advcie I have given her mess of a brother. You deserve a better life than you are allowing yourself to live. You need to love and value yourself more and START doing things in your life differently to make a change.
I pray that Our Father continues to show her His will in whatever way she will receive it and that she will change direction and behavior before I can no longer STAND for her and for us. I don't anticipate any date in the near future that I will lose my ability to STAND, but that is my fear nontheless. If you have any spare praayign capacity, pray for me and for us. We need prayer and God's hand in our lives to heal our wounds and right our ways.
I WANT my wife back. I want my marriage back. I want my family to remain intact and for all of the damage to be healed. I want a miracle and I am willing to do my part to facilitate that miracle.
A LOT of e-mail cutting and pasting, forgive me please. MORE info to follow on next post.
Well,W never called last night but did e-mail me:
Quote: Its not that I dont want to talk. I just have mixed feelings about counseling with you. I feel that we did that in our marriage and it did not work. You say that you were never present for it, but I was and I worked my ass off trying to save our marriage. I know that you had an affair for a long time and another one while I was pregnant with Abby. I did what I could to save the marriage while we still had one. It is not my fault that you were not doing your part at that time (the whole time). I had to grieve our marriage while we were still in it becuase I knew it was ending. A marriage cannot be saved by only one person working on it. Why in Gods name do you try so hard now? Why after 6 years of hell, do you do this now? The time to work on your marriage is when you are actually still in it and there is one to save. I dont feel that we have a marriage anymore to even work on. It is over.
to which I responded with:
Quote: I understand that you have mixed feelings about counseling with me. If you would, for a moment, please focus on the positive aspects of your mixed feelings. The fact that your feelings are mixed is a plus. The positive aspects are part of those mixed feelings and focusing on the exceptions to the negative aspects and fears of your mixed feelings that are overwhelming your thoughts/feelings right now will be the key to achieveing the Biblical goal for all troubled marriages, which is that that goal always ought to be restoration and reconciliation.
I disagree that we received adequat and effective counseling during our marriage. I understand that we went to counseling, but...the reason it was inadequate and ineffective was that our goals were unclear and our counselor wasn't skilled enough to help us uncover clear, concise, actionable goals and to get us from where we were to where we wanted/needed to be as quickly as possible, and THEN monitor the results and send us back home with more HOMEwork. We were clearly in crisis AND had a strong desire to solve our problems, hence we were there. The fact that the counselor and counseling were inadequate and ineffective was NOT your fault. I will certainly bear the brunt of the blame beacause of MY unwillingness to be gut-level honest in our counseling sessions out of fear. At the time, I truly felt you were going to marital counseling so that you could say you 'tried' counseling and then divorce me bacause it didn't work. I understand now that I was wrong about your intentions. I repeat, I was wrong.
My fear was rooted in my feelings of not being good enough for you and for ALL of the other positive parts of my life. I was afraid that you would figure out what I felt at the time, which was that I felt that you were too good for me and that you deserved someone better and would soon figure it out and I would be cast aside. I absolutely forgot that you and I came together because we had a strong mutual attraction that still exists today. I was selling myself short and I used my own feelings of inadequacy to treat you poorly in MANY ways because I did not tackle my own feelings and deal with them head on. I was subconsciously tearing you down because my self esteem was lacking so badly and I felt that you were above me. I realize now that I did that, but I did it that of ignorance, not malice. I am sorry for doing that. That was unfair, hurtful and wrong.
I know that my affair badly damaged the positive feelings that you had and somewhat still have for me, but it did NOT destroy your feelings. I understand that you are deathly afraid of what you believe I may do should you allow me back in, close to you. I know that I shattered your trust in me; your trust, as you once confided in me, that I would NEVER leave you, no matter what you said or did to me. I took your unshakable rock away; your feeling of impenetrable safety, your unwavering safe harbor. I know that I deeply hurt you (deeper than you ever knew you could hurt), caused your horrible distrust, stirred up intense anger in you and even rage, caused disbelief, made you feel like a failure and made you feel inadequate, and on top of all that, I poured betrayal on your very being like molten lava which burned you to your core.
I have apologized for and taken full responsibility for having an affair. I also know that you will NEVER forget what I have done to you, our family and myself. I have promised change and fidelity going forward. I am changing and I will never betray you again if you find it in yourself to give me the opportunity to put in the hard work that will be necessary to rebuild and regain your respect, trust, and love. I never want to go through this hell again and I certainly won't bring down this hell on earth on us all all again.
You told me once that I know you better than anyone else knows you and that I love you anyway. You were, and still are, correct in that knowledge. I know you are afraid and suffer from the old adage of, "Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me." I promised you change and I have changed. I continue to make positive changes every day. I promised you fidelity and I will never betray you again if you find it in yourself to allow me back into your 'circle of trust.' I will NOT fail you again.
I am grounded in who I am, in my faith and in my love. I lost myself in you trying to 'pose' as someone else, instead of being the person you met and to whom were so strongly attracted in the beginning. I was afraid that you would find out that the real me wasn't good enough, smart enough, strong enough, man enough to deserve you as his partner in life. And, since that was my fear, I subconscously put that ball in motion to make my feelings a reality, because of course, I felt that I wasn't good enough for you in so many ways.
In losing myself in you and in our family, I lost sight of what my needs were and ARE. My affair came about because I didn't meet my own needs of affirmation, adoration, affection, and appreciation. As you used to say to me, that was MY [censored]. I was looking to you to meet those core needs of mine and when you didn't meet them, which you couldn't possibly because only I can, I lwrongly ooked to someone else to meet them for me. I was weak, afraid, and ignorant. I was weak because I truly felt that I wasn't good enough and didn't want to expose the me that doesn't 'measure up.' I was afraid because I truly felt that the me you fell in love with would prove to be 'not enough' to satisfy you as my life's partner. I was ignorant because I did not dig to find out what my needs were and are and didn't know what I didn't know and therefore was lost in being lost. As the saying goes, if you don't know where you are going, ANY road will get you there. That was me. The right road was through Jesus toward God with you and our family at my side, NOT the one I chose.
Very early on in our relationship, I truly felt that I NEEDED you. I have found that I WANT, not NEED you. I DESIRE you. I LOVE you. I want our marriage to survive and for our family to grow back together and come toghether intact again. The impact of my inidelity has shaken me to my core. The reasons I haven't crumbled are because God's mercy, grace, forgiveness, and love. I have truly repented and asked for His forgiveness. He has forgiven me. The work is now mine to follow the Godly path to redeem myself and hopefully restore and reconcile our marriage, all the while moving towards being the man that He always intended for me to be.
The biblical goal for all troubled marriages is restoration and reconciliation. If we don't go back and work on the unfinished business in our marriage FIRST, at least for a period of undistracted time before we decide what to do with our marriage, we will drag all of that unfiinished business into any subsequent relationships and we'll pay for it forever.
Awhile back, I asked you a question about what percentage of our marriage on a timeline would you say that our marriage was at level 4 or level 5 (level 5 being the highest) on a marital satisfaction scale? I did not give you ANY guidance for a percentabe number on purpose, because I truly wanted to know what YOU felt with NO influence from me. You came back with a figure of 30% for our marriage on a timeline being at level 4 or level 5 for marital satisfaction. I have read so much material, some of it secular and much of it Christian. In the material from Torn Asunder by Dave Carder, which is about restoration and reconciliation after an affair, Mr. Carder says that he has researched these figures with thousands of couples and his research finds that when the couple can find 20% of their marriage history, as seen by both spouses on the marital satisfaction scale at level 4 or level 5, thecouple has a better than a 93% chance of making their marriage better than it has ever been in 2 years. Back then, my belief on the same matter was that we were at 40% of our marriage history on the marital satisfaction timeline scale at level 4 or level 5. THAT will preach!
Mr. Carder continues that he only knows of only one institution in the nation that will provide the hope and the chance of healing, reconciliation, re-building trust in a marriage. He also says that since God performed the miracle of raising Jesus from the dead he can certainly re-build the bridges that have been burned by an affair.
If you've gotten this far, thank you for bearing with me despite your mixed feelings. I promise to you that I will continue to be patient while you continue to heal and if you will allow me to assist you, I will help you heal. I believe taht being divorced will NOT be less painful than rebuilding, restoring and reconciling our marriage. You know that there is no running away from this nightmare.The only way to get through this for both of us is to go through the pain.
I promise to do anything and everything to re-build and restore you respect for, trust in and love for me. I promist to reassure you whenever you need reassurance that I am loyal and love you VERY much. Reveal what help you need in your healing process and I will provide it.
I also know that we will never be able to move forward together unless you move past the mindset of, "Our problems are YOUR fault and YOU must pay." I also know that feelings follow action. Just by being involved in loving interactions together, those feelings of love we both so cherished will return with nurturing and regularity of those types of interactions. Again, loving feelings WILL follow regular loving interactions.
FORGIVENESS takes strength, but not nearly as much strength as holding a grudge. Foprgiveness is NOT a feeling, it is a DECISION! It is a decsion to give yourself the gift of a clean slate, an unburdening of yourself from carrying that baggage around. Now you will never forget a wrong, but with time and sufficient good/great interactions, new memories will replace old memories and the old negative feelings will fade in strength.
And lastly, I disagree with you that one person cannot save a marriage from the standpoint that one person has the abilith to hold the relationship and marriage together until BOTH spouses are ready, willing and able to participate. I STAND for me, for you, for our family and for God. I believe that I am doing what is right in haning on. I have faith the God will perform a miracle in our lives and our reconciliation will be a true and glorious testament to the power, grace, mercy, and love of God. I also believe that as your healing progresses, you will stop running and STAND with me, for yourself, for me, for us, for our family and for GOD. Running is too exhausting. STAND with me.
Now, mind you, my feeling last night was that her hesitation in participating in the MC session with Vernetta was that OM was at her house and she needed top put on the mask of the 'good little cheater girl' for OM.
She responded to my lost e-mail as follows in the AM because I text msgd her to pls read it:
Quote: Wow. You had a lot to say and I heard every word. You said some things to me that truly amazed me. It makes my heart hurt to know where you stand and where I do not stand. I wish I had that same desire. I will do the phone conversation, but I cannot promise anything. And I cannot promise that I will WANT to do the homework that she will suggest to us.
To which I prompty responded:
Quote: I am so happy that you read my e-mail and I did/DO have a lot to say, but mostly I keep my thoughts to myself these days.For me, tbeing in my own head is the place where I do the work on me and is the place where I quiet all the 'voices' in my life andwhere I most effectively choose to listen and believe the Voice of Truth, because the voices of the enemy laugh at me and remind me that I have tried before and failed. I know that I have tried before and failed. And yet I STAND, because I am God's servant and soldier in this war. I know NOT surrender. I know NOT quit. I own NO white flags to give up my wife, marriage and family to the enemy. I will
I have spent the past 6 months reading, thinking and growing. I expect nothing. I know where I STAND because I STAND where I must for me, for you, for us, for our family and for God.Your willingness to participate in the phone conversation is all that I can ask of you and I am truly grateful. I expect nothing from you. I can never make you truly aware of the gratitude I have for your willingness to even THINK agout STANDING with me. Thank you. For everything.
I am patient. I am strong. I am a LION. I am your safe harbor and your unwavering rock. Thank you again.
Her phone call to me interrupted my e-mail response in the middle so I hastily finished it. She wanted to know where I was and how long it would take me to get there.
I told her. Upon arriving, I confirmed my suspicions about OM being there last night and this AM. I simply parked, gathered my belongings and exited the car. He had already flipped around and left. I wasn't trying to avoid a confrontation, nor was I looking to invite one.
I walked into the house and W asked me how I was doing and I smiled at her an answered, "Remarkably well." I asked how she was and she looked and sounded distraught and resoponed, "OK. <pregnant pause> Not very well." I asked her if she could give me ther 'Readers Digest 1-minute version of her upset b/c our session was about to begin. She said that she was very sorry that I saw OM leaving her house and that that wasn't her intention. I simply asked her, "Is there anything you can do about it at this point?" She said no. I said then just forget. It happened. It's over. Of course I had already rehearsed in my head my responde to ANY remorse she might show. I know that OM didn't try very hard to slither away b4 I arrived. She KNEW when I was going to arrive and I actually arrived 7-8 minutes late and his reptile a$$ was still there probably hoping to provoke a confrontation. I didn't take his bait. He slithered away to crawl under another rock.
I went to W's house to do the DB/DR session because I don't have two handsets for my phone and she does. So many things that she said and did in the hours before I arrived for our session at her house she was telegraphing to me that trouble could be 'a brewin'.' Oh well, I was oblivious until after the fact and I wouldn't have changed my actions if I had actually KNOWN istead of just strongly suspecting what was up.
Regardless, she kicked his a$$ out so she could participate in a MC session with ME. Now, that had to be a huge kick in his F-ing nuts!! Plus, emotionally he got another one because I just let him slither away without incident, a huge loser in this battle.
One quick note: As I drove up, I was on the phone with Frank asking for guidance and encouragement. He is a godsend. We speak the same language and see eye to eye on so many topics. Thank you Frank, for being there for me and for your 'Frank-isms.'
Now, I was in the house, we were talking, she was primping for work. I asked her where she was going to sit for the session? I didn't think she would want to sit in the same room on our different handsets, but she did. I didn't mind. I walked in with two pages of scribbled notes of my goals for our session and an outline to try to follow. She had nothing in preparation for our session. Again, she agreed to attend but only reluctantly.
VERNETTA session- Please anyone who knows Vernetta, please direct her to this post so she can read about my take on her handiwork.
We said hello to Vernetta and the session began with W and I both sitting in the kitchen. Vernetta began with the niceties and asked me where I wanted to begin. I said that I hoped to lay the foundation for atoning furhter for my mistake, making amends to W for the same, and work on how I might be the recipient of her forgiveness so that we would be able to peacably co-parent going forward. Now, I know that I have a tendency to be long-winded, so I stopped my self and said that I had already participated in two sessions with Vernetta back in April/May and that W was there only reluctantly. I said I would prefer to let W take the reins and lead us where she may.
W began talking and we were on the phone with Vernetta for close to 60 minutes. W & Vernetta were talking for probalby 57 of those 60 minutes as though I wasn't there with an occasional check in to see if I was OK with our progresss. Of course, I was. I had no idea the my reluctant W would open up so much, be so honest and actually take the lead in this session. Based on what she had said to me leading up to our session, I was prepared for a silent wallflower. WOW.
I was and AM truly amazed at Vernetta's remarkable skill, insight, candor, peronability and ability to get my W to open up to her. THEY had never met and Vernetta made it very clear to W up front that she is a DB/DR coach and what she strives to achieve. W was game despite that.
I took five full pages of copious notes on their conversation because, although very little of it was new to me, it was a remindeer and besides, my W was opening up in a non-defensive, non-attacking way. Go Vernetta! Unbelievable! I was floored by both women.
W started out saying that she doesn't have sexual feelings for me that a W needs to have for her H. W told V that we have had a lot of ups and downs sexually, but that she had felt this way for many years and the feelings made her feel guilty. W said we had NO chemistry. W also told Vernetta that she had read a LOT of self help literature on her own. Vernetta pointed out that my W had lost her desire for intimacy with me. Strange thing: in previous MC work we had been given intimacy assignments and we didn't follow thru. W was disinterested, so like a dummy, I lost interest also.
Vernetta the talked about male vs. female sexual patters. For a man the patter is: -desire -arousal -climax -resolution for a woman it is:
-arousal -desire -climax -resolution
Her mind didn't let her body get into sex with me so she couldn't open up and let her hair down and sex hurt because she often wasn't ready.
W then went on to say that she is NOT planning on stopping the divorce. Her goal for the sesion was to learn to co-parent better and be civil to one another.
W told Vernetta that the reason she began losing feelings for me was b/c I didn't treat her nicely and she shut down.
Vernetta then brought up the fact the human beings have the infinite capacity to permanently IF they put in the earnest work to do the changing.
W said she did not want to go back to a loveless M. Funny thing is, on the day she agreed to participate in this counseling session she said the same thing and I concurred, saying that I would not go back to the same M either.
Vernetta then brought up pro-marriage statistics that 83% of couples who decided to stick it out in a troubled M reported being MUCH happier in the M and much happier that they made the decison to hang in there.
W then brought up the point that she had done NO work on our M since we split because she considered it to be OVER. She instead kept herself busy and distracted.
Vernetta keyed in on the fact that although W was reluctant to participate in the session she had chosen to participate and not only showed up, BUT was ACTIVELY participating. Vernetta complimented her on that fact throughout. V also told W that she sees that W still has some fight left in her; that she doesn't give up easily. Wife quickly agreed.
V went on talking about studies and her belief that the BIOLOGICAL parents raising children is best for those children. V asked W what she saw as the ideal. W siad us being together is the ideal! WOW. She actually said that!
Now we get into the meat and potatos of our R problems. V asked, and I gave permission, to bring up info from our individual C sessions back in April/May of this year. I told her that I had NOTHING to hide. Vernetta began reading from her notes.
I was previously M and my W cheated on me with her college professor. I found out about it and confronted her. Ex-W said she wanted a D immediately. I told Ex-W that I didn't want that and wanted to work through the troubles. I ended up giving her 6 months to figure out what she really wanted to do and waited patiently.
At the 6 month point of our split, I went to Ex-W and asked her again what she wanted to do. She said she wanted a D. I said fine. Took off my W ring and began dating in earnest. I wasn't looking for anything serious. Hell, I had just gotten badly burned in a M. Woman came out of the woodwork, having noticed that I was no longer wearign a wedding band. Many of them very attractive. LOTS of them VERY scary! I met my W through a mutual friend who happened to know me and my sitch and thought W and I wold hit it off. We did. My soon to be Ex found out and suddenly became convinced that she wanted to work things out with me. I told her sorry, but I waited for her and she still stiffed me and I wss moving on with my life. Ex asked my why? Ex said you wanted so badly to make it work before. What changed? I looked her in the eye and said, "You made me quit. Congratulations."
Now all of this with my soon to be Ex was going on when I first got involved with my present W, but she was aware of my sitch before anything ever started between us. REgardless, W became VERY uncomfortable being involved in, what she saw as, a live triangle. I was VERY concerned for my Ex's mental stability. I cared for her family and I cared for her, but she forced my hand despite my best efforts to hang in there.
Now, problems arise in getting out of M with Ex because she became crazy vindictive and W became pregnant and we had already set a wedding date. In panic, I because I felt like I had not choice, I made a very bad decision that ended up causing me serious legal and monetary troubles and caused a serious loss of trust with W, just prior to OUR getting married. Bad move. Bad mistake. Awful impact.
When V brought up Ex's name, W became VERY agitated and her loss of trust surfaced explosively. V picked up on W's change in demeanor at the mere mention of Ex's name and drew out the loss of trust that my mistake caused and the continuing pain from the absence of forgiveness from my W as a core marital problem for us.
W spoke often thru our session about her belief that married couples can and should work thru ANY problem, and that my A was not the focal point issue of her loss of trust with me.
Vernetta then dug further, telling W that damaged trust like ours damages ALL future relationships until we learn to forgive and trust others again and to trust ourselves. V continued, saying that we need to be able to feel naked and unashamed like Adam and Eve did in the beginning aht that I ahamed my W with my violation of trust. V also said that my W's loss of trust in other people most likely began when W has a child and probably began with her parents. THAT point hit home with W.
Vernetta continued on saying that the work to forgive, to heal, to rebuild trust in her life NEEDS to begin with me and not some OM. V said that life is FULL of violated trust. V asked what will it take for W to trust again? She then turned her attention to me and said that EVERYTHING I do must build trust and I must be diligent in NOT violationg her trust again. V said wh both need to be able to feel naked an unashamed. THAT is the key! W said V makes 100% sense!
W then went into her R with OM and said that she belives now that she is trying to fix her trust issues in that R because OM is her emotional nemesis and THAT is why she picked him.
W then said she would do ANYTHING to have her sexual desire for me back! WOW! She actually said that too! V then said that a woman needs to feel trust to feel intimate and THAT was where our healing work must travel through. V also said that W and I have a great deal of compatability and love between us and that 90% of the couples she works with and has worked with would KILL to have what we have NOW! W nodded in knowing agreement.
V, now taling to W, told her that you have a seriously motivated partner who will do almost anything to work this M out with you. Acknowledge that fact. She nodded again, looking at me and said she knew. V also said our recovery mission, should we choose to accept it, would take 2-5 years, but would be well worth the effort.
Vernetta then turned to me one last time to close the session and I did with the following. I said that I did not want to go back to a loveless M, that I had done an indredible amount of learning and work on myself and made great strides in uncovering and cherishing who I am. I then said (this is from Frank) that I hoped that this session would help us both to treat the other with greater honor, respect and care. We said our goodbys and the session closed.
Interesting side note. We both had to get to work and W made a detour, I thought. Honestly, I had no idea where she was going, but OM jumped to mind. W called me and said do you know where I am going? I said I could guess, but I'd rather not. W says, awww, come on! I repeated, I could guess, but I'd rather not. She then told me she was going to deliver loan docs from a signing to the escrow office and that it was right where she turned off and reminded me that I had been there once with her. I did remember with her help.
Anyway, I was incredibly pleseed with the dent we made in our marital problems and the dent we mad in W's individual sticking points. I expected nothing going in and was more than pleasantly surprised by my W's presence and participation. I am encouraged. Riight now I will keep on keepin' on. I will do more of the same of what is working to effect changes in our sitch. I am not done fightin' til the fightin's done and we are victorious together.
I also called Frank again, poor Frank, to tell him my story. He was encouraging and quite pleased with what he heard about V's performance in the session. So was/AM I. Thank you V. I will guage my W's behavior, attitude and interest in having another session with V, either individually or jointly. I will decide when to broach the subject in the next two weeks becuse I don't want to lose what I perceive as R momentum in the positive direction.
For those of you who prayed for us and sent positive thoughts and energy, thank you. I felt many hands on me, helping me, guiding me. Thank you.
One last item. W's friend/neighbor who is going thru a D also, came by the house while I was there to see W and for her S5 to see our D6. Interesting interaction. Friend asked me when I was going to take my license plate frame off the rear of my vehicle which says Erica loves Tom and has our M date on it. I told her calmly, but matter of factly, I'll take that off when I take my wedding band off and I'm not taking that off til the fightin's done and we've won! She looked at me puzzled and I said don't worry, my W doesn't understand me either. I then joked, would it make everyone feel better if W and I just strapped on boxing gloves and duked it out in the court?She just looked at me, smiled and shook her head. She is the same woman who told me that she really believes that me and my W need to get back together.
I also told her that my license plate frame is the only sentimental thing my W has ever purchased for me. She mentioned something about me dating others and I told her the same thing I told my W. I have never doubted my ability to attract members of the opposite sex. I don't try because, as I told my W, I am a married man and I take that commitment seriously and dating would be wrong. (Yes, I got that from Frank, as well. All together now, TY Frank.) :-p
I further explained that I had been thru a divorce before and as soon as I took off my wedding band, women were coming out of the woodwork to express interest. Friend then said, well, you also keep some very pointed reminders that you are not available, pointed and my wedding band and my car license plate holder. I said, yes I do. She then said that she and her husband took off their wedding rings in December. I said nothing, but thought, how sad. Friend also said that she is very surprised that women don't approach me all the time despite the wedding band. I just shrugged, saying I don't put myself out there.
Her mother arrived and we all parted. I took my two chili beans to my place and we have had a great evening toghether. S is a little under the weather. =(
I am really interested to see how my interaction with my W goes over the next few days. I know I have to keep on keepin' on as though our Vernetta session never happened. I will. I am very encouraged, but I AM not doing the end zone dance, just yet. Lot of game to be played yet.It's still early in this sitch.
Today was interesting with W. Son is a little better today. W called me up in the AM to see of I can cover ANOTHER appointment for her. I checked my schedule, even though I wa already pretty confident I could handle it, called her back to tell her I would and gave her my notes. W said she wasn't feeling well. Said she felt like she has what is ailing our S.
I have decided to get out of the speculating business, especially with regard to my W. I RARELY speculate that positive happenings are going on when I 'loop' such thoughts in my head, so...I've decided to stop doing that to myself. W came into the office a little late and went to an appointment with MIL and then left. She had told me that she had plans to go to Napa this weekend for wine tasting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps that is next Friday. Who knows.? W was hitting me up to take our children earlier in the day to accomodate her travel plans during her scheduled time with our children.
Anyway, we hardly talked until the end of the day and she called me see if I was almost to her house. She had 'plans' to go out to dinner. Nice. I told her NO, that I had been fixing a problem that was created by my co-worker and was right in the middle of finishing it up right then and I needed to get off the phone. She kept on and I told her, "W, I need to get off the phone now to finish. I am hanging up and did so." Next thing I know muy MIL's phone rings and my other co-worker who had heard my half of the convo said aloud, I wonder who that is?" facetiously. I said aloud, it is my W. Of coure, it was and she was confirmning that I as doing work as I said I was. MIL walks over to my office and begins asking me questions while holding her cell with my W on the other end of the phone. I told her that I wss finishing up my task, needed to speak with another resident who was waiting in the office to speak with me, and then I would be on my way to pick up my children. I looked at MIL and stared at her phone, which she half-heartedly tried to make it look like she was muffling the sound. I told MIL that I had already explained this to W and didn't appreciate having the conversation with W on the other end of MIL's cell phone call. I heard MIL say that I wouldn't tell her what I was doing, but clearly I had, PLUS told her I would be on my way to W's house ASAP.
When I got into the car, I called W and asked her if she got the answer she was looking for when she called her mother as soon as I ended our first call. W asked me if I was working on the same problem that MIL was working on earlier. I said all the same sitch. W tells me that MIL resolved the whole issure herself. I told W, well if that's how she sees it, that's her prerogative. It's her last name on the sign out front. I must have been doing nothing to button up the issue to get those residents on their way.
W then asks me again if I am on my way. I said yes, again, and re-iterated that it was not my intention for my co-worker to make a mistake, for my MIL to get involved and partially resolve the problem and to have the problem dumped in my lap to finish it all up just to muck up W's 'plans.'
I asked her how she was feeling and she said bad. Interesting that she was going OUT to dinner. But, that's not my business with whom. I didn't ask and I am not speculating. Last night she went out with a girlfriend who looked to be in her early 20's. My W seems to seek out these young women to go out with. Why? Again, I have given up speculating for the sake of my sanity and resolve.
Anyway, my good friend said that W was going to tire of all of her 'activity' when the summer passed because she ALWAYS gets sick a lot in the fall and winter months. My friend said, let's see OM take care of her and cater to her like she is used to. Things are a comin' to a head. He won't. She will get furher disillusioned with the R and THEN things get really interesting for me and her.
I told her the other day that I am strong and I have no intention of surrendering. I told her that I will STAND longer than she can run from herself and her issues. I told her that she is going to exhaust herself and fall and that I would still be there STANDing to help her up and to move forward again. She just looks at me puzzled like she thinks I am nuts. Perhaps I am. If this is nuts, I am not ashamed to be.
As I said in my recent post, I am curious to see how our interaction progresses after she bore her heart and soul in our session with Vernetta. Right now I am just backing away and praying she uses some of her sick time to reflect on what IS happening and not on her skewed perception of life. I also pray that God continue to work in her life to illuminate His will in a manner that she will receive.
Back to tonight though. I know it is my SIL's S1's first birthday this weekend and had been asked by EVERYONE if I had been invited, being the EX-HUSBAND, as my W took to calling me in hurt and anger a few months ago. I told them I knew nothing and had been told nothing which was not unusual. On my drive to W's house, I told W that I would appreciate it if she would make a more concerted effort to inform me of ALL activities that involve our children when I am caring for them. She countered with, well, I just found out either yesterday or earlier today, sorry. I told her I am not looking for an apology. I am simply looking for a more concerted to pass along the information that pertains to our children and the activities to which they are invited. She said she would do better. I left it at that.
Funny thing early this evening. I asked MIL if a Bday party was being thrown and if I was purposely NOT invited (a family habit)? MIL said YES, you are absolutely invited. W received ALL of the info and SIL probably assumed that that info would be passed along. I told MIL that the only info I received was in response to an inquiry with was a pain since ALL of our childrens' invitations filter throug the house and hence, my W. Makes me sad that she is so lost inside her own head and anguish.
In closing, D is asleep in bed and so is S. I miss them when I am not doting on them. They are such wonderful children and D is SOOOO confused about what is happening in her life with regard to mommy and daddy and mommy's dating and having overnight guests who sleep on daddy's side of the bed. I am praying for the strength to keep on keepin' on and keep my anger, disappointment and hurt under wraps. Praying is my path to serenity in this b*tch of a sitch.
Interesting side note. Late this afternoon, I was doing field work and I was exiting a building and saw my cleaning crew. I could hear them talking and saying that Tom (me) was coming to the door. I say a young woman looking into the building and seemed to need to enter the building. Since our business is to rent units, I asked her if I could answer any questions? She informed me that she was from out of town and looking to rent an an apartment. I invited her up to the unit that I was meeting the cleaning crew so she could see it and she ended up not liking it. Doing what I do, I inquired as to what exactly she was looking for in a rental unit and she filled me in. I had a list of over 15 stops still to make and two of those units I felt strongly could satisfy her rental needs, so I asked her if I could borrow her for a little bit. She agreed and I told her that two units that I needed to see could possibly meet her tastes, based on her desctiption of what she was in the market for.
I gave her directions and we met at the first time. I told her to check out the unit and that I was not a 'hard sell' kind of guy and that if sales were my game, I would need to keep my 'day' job. I continued on taking my notes for flipping the unit to be rent ready again while we chatted and she told me about herself. I reciprocated. It was nice.
We then met at the second unit and chit-chatted more. And we re-did what we went through in the first unit. She kept telling me that she didn't want to take up all of my time and I told her that I was actually doing my work, which I was, which is why I was scribbling on my papers. I explained a bit more about our renting process and directed her how to proceed if she so chose. At 5:00, she said to me, it's getting late, you must have much more fun things to do than working at this time. I said that I had another 1/2 hour to go.
The conversation was charming and entertaining. It was nice to feel a real sense of being attractive to an extremely attractive, charismatic, charming, and engaging young woman when there were NO uncercurrents of 'attracedness' and NO expectations or uncomfortable tensions. Now, as my good friend would tell me, as my PMA has solidified and my spine has stiffened, sometimes I can be a cocky little f*cker. I felt that this lady was dropping her line in my ocean and wanted to see if I would take the bait. I didn't. I kept it professional and friendly, but I must say, THAT felt nice to know (well, believe anyway) that an attractive woman such as she would find me attractive enough to gently and carefully probe me for my interest in her in a VERY ladylike manner. I was flattered and felt alive in the presence of a woman other than my W for the first time in AGES. It was very nice.
I continue to heal. I continue to see that, what I say is true. I like me. There was life before W and there will be life after W, if she so chooses to make that necessary. I am just happy that I had the conversation with that woman today and that I felt attracive, engaging, funny and possibly even wanted and gently pursued. Thanks.
It's in times like that that I truly feel the magnitude of my A and all that I stand to lose if my W doesn't change our course and make her own personal changes. I hope and pray she does, on both counts.
Today has been a trying day emotionally. S is still sick and cranky and at 1 year of age, can't tell me what he needs to feel a little better nor what is wrong. Trial and error. Done this before, but this is no less sad because I have experience with it.
Another sad note for me today is my D told me that when she called mommy to tell her hi, she had to leave a msg and left one that she wanted to be with mommy because she was lonely. When I probed a little about why she missed mommy so much her answers were sad. D gave two reasons: 1) mommy has more cartoon channels (uses satellite so easier for D to navigate all of the cartoon channels easier) and 2) mommy plans 'play dates' so D can play with D's friends. I am sad about that, not because she misses mommy, but because mommy distracts our D with TV so much and 'play dates.'
And lastly, I am sad that I let myself get my hopes built up that I might see more positive movement in our sitch after, what I perceived as, our VERY positive and encouraging session with Vernetta last TH. I told myself going in that I had NO expectations going into the C session. Matter of fact, I am still quite surprised that W opened up so quickly to Vernetta and opened up so fully to V. Kudos to Vernetta and her supstantial wisdom, skill, encouragement, and patience!
At this point, I feel like I am stuck even further between a rock and a hard place. My W is still so confused about how she truly feels and how she is going to resolve her feelings and sort out her life. She is still entangled with her, as she called OM, her emotional nemesis and trying to sort out her past hurts thru him and that R. I want so much to pursue her and probe her openness and willingness to move forward in counseling and in reconciling our M, but that would certainly kill any shred of hope to which she she may be still clinging. I want to push her forward on the path that she tentatively toes at the 'starting line', but I am soo afraid of scaring her away with even the slightest movement, either towards her or away from her. As my D would say about something as precious and valuable as my W, "W is FRAGILE!"
I am soooo afraid of taking the WRONG path and going and going against common/DB wisdom . Unfortunately, going against that common/DB wisdom, as I have sometimes chosen, has actually served me well. In speaking with Frank, he told me that I know my W and my sitch better than I can ever post and thus, of course, I will know when to move forward and pull back after taking in the well-meaning counsel of others better than anyone else could ever advise. As my good friend and Frank both say, it is MY life and I have to live with the action or inaction and the consequences of such. No one else has as much riding on what choose to do and/or NOT do and so I tread lightly, but sometimes God nudges me to trudge forward forcefully through my fears as his spiritual soldier.
I have no explanation, other than God's loving hand, as to how, after all the negative indications my W has thrown my way, my M still has the strong opportunity to survive and thrive in my Sitch of Hope. I am sad to say, that my praying has slowed down of late and, as AmyC often counsels me, I need to get back on my needs in thanks/gratitude for all of God's mercy, grace, forgiveness, strength and love in my life. Thank you, Amy for always reminding me that I have the ability to change neither myself nor my sitch alone. God's power, guidance and love are from where our ultimate victory will emanate. I will re-double my 'Conversations' with God and continue to invite Him to rule my life.
For those of you who have followed my sitch from the beginning, my W and I have not travelled very far from where our sitch began, but my W seems to be settling back into her authentic truth and self and it is THAT settling into her authentic truth and self, with God's loving hand of guidance, that will move us from the battlefield with the enemy, to the top of the mountain to survey all of the damage and peril that we have survived in His living love and how far we have travelled in our journey to fulfill His will and truly be the bold proclamation for the power and glory of Our Father that He always intended when He spoke for us in the beginning.
If you will, after reading thru my musings, take a moment and please add your grace and personal power to the praying brigade in my life. I, more now than ever, NEED HELP STAYING ON MY FEET! NOW, as I have SEEN, rather than only having my FAITH in the positive movement in my sitch, I feel VERY afraid that all of my patience, praying, hard work and love is coming to fruition and the enemy may redouble his efforts on my W with his minions and pull her even harder to the life of darkness that he offers to her as so exciting and appealing. I know that I have the 'stones' to beat him back. I pray that God will make His will crystal clear to my W and she will have the strength to beat the enemy back herself. Please pray with me. Amen. Thank you.
"...though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through
God to the pulling down of strongholds".
2 Corinthians 10:3-4
The enemy has a stronghold in your wife's life in the form of OM, you can bet the enemy is going to come after the breakthrough your wife had a few days ago, and he will likely come in the same manner that he's already got your wife bound.
It is your job to pray her THROUGH.
That's your role.
To PRAY.
Not to take the enemy down on your own.
That is foolish.
Of yourself, you can not defeat him.
You have to pray.
And praise God for the work He has already accomplished.
Now, what you are experiencing in the silence after the awesome counseling session Thursday, is something we've all seen before.
The silence after what we see as such a breakthrough can be devastating and THIS is precisely where your faith is tested to the utmost.
It's not in the waiting FOR the breakthrough, as we all surely thought at first.
No.
It's in the mindnumbing calm that follows it that we almost get driven out of our minds.
But rest.
Be still and know that He is God and the work He has begun in you, He is faithful to complete.
No weapon formed against you or your family shall prosper.
Now tell the enemy so.
Does he know that YOU KNOW who you are in Christ?
Be sure to tell him.
Loudly.
I have missed you. Thank you for your everpresence grounding and guiding counsel. I take heart in EVERYTHING you say. Thank you again for your unfailing presence, strength and encouragement.
I call her and speak to her and tell her you made two comments on your last msg and I would like to respond to one and ask a question of the other. May I? She agrees and I tell her that NO, I am not pissed. I then asked if it's not what I think it is, what is it? She tells me that it wasn't planned. So I asked her, since we are being so open and honest, did he just show up unannounced? She said no, she invited him over b/c she wanted to clarify some things. I asked her if she got clarity, and she said she did not. I told her that I did get clarity and thanked her.
Doing what I do, I inquired as to what exactly she was looking for in a rental unit and she filled me in. I had a list of over 15 stops still to make and two of those units I felt strongly could satisfy her rental needs, so I asked her if I could borrow her for a little bit. She agreed and I told her that two units that I needed to see could possibly meet her tastes, based on her desctiption of what she was in the market for.