I'll absolutely concede that sticking with the approach I mentioned can be really difficult....it really does try me at times, but because I do see results it keeps me at it. It's a slow process though....it has to be slow though because it takes that time for my H to see that just because I say something, it doesn't mean I'm out to crucify him. It will take time with your W too.
Mind if I ask you why you felt the need to post anything in your defense on this? (But in my defense, I must say that if she would concede to some of my concerns or at least try to address them, a LOT of my “criticism” would go away.) At this time she doesn't concede etc, so really...IMPOV that's a mute point. I mean..."IF" our spouses would do many things...many of us wouldn't have the issues we do...the fact is though, right now they don't.
I've felt the same way with my H on many things over the last several years....but the fact is, I was dealing with someone for quite some time who would not concede....who wouldn't budge his position one bit, who if I said something that sounded remotely contrary to what he said...stopped listening.
I've really had to work on my approach with my H to make sure he doesn't feel attacked by me....because in my POV...it's really quite simple. As long as he feels attacked by me....he's not going to respond in the manner I'd like him to, because he'll be hearing me through defensive filters and he won't be hearing what I'm truly saying.
What I had in mind was that Schnarch example I posted yesterday. W feels so much is piling up on her, that I have one criticism after another (which is not true). Much of what I ask for and complain about is no different from what I see others on this board asking of their wives. Yet she resists, which keeps the issue alive, which keeps the complaint coming back to her. She also does not like to seek compromise since she feels that I am only trying to convince her to do things my way. I know she has this impression, but it is not true since I feel I have made concessions on almost everything. (I have told her that as a couple, we each should not expect to get more than 50% of what we want. That 50% number is awfully low for her and I think it bothers her. You simply cannot exert much control with only 50% input.)
She says she does not complain about me or criticize me, but when she does I do try to listen and change. That diffuses the issue and she has nothing more to complain about. So her perception that I have loads of criticisms about her is in large part her own doing.
I have also notice another problem. There have been times when I felt we had a “breakthrough” of sorts. That momentum seems to last a few weeks, then things slowly revert to where they were. This has been very confusing to me, until I think about it in terms of emotion. I believe she perceives the world based on how she feels, not how she thinks. Breakthroughs need a lot of behavioral changes and practice to drill down to the level where they affect the emotions. That is why I listen to Blackfoot.
But she has to be willing to do this, not just me. Otherwise, she seems to revert back to old emotional ruts and looses the value of that breakthrough. The complaints that led up to that breakthrough then re-emerge and she again feels like I am the mean, critical, abusive H.
Cobra you started the thread asking how to become more
"compassionate, kind, gentle, empathic yet confident, self assured, consistent, stable, alpha male who champions the rights of oppressed females everywhere, stands up to male tyranny and chauvinism and fights for truth, justice and the American way!"
and you've refused to take anyones advice or observations without defending your "tactics" or opening your mind to what almost everyone is telling you.
I don't have anything to offer you other than this.
As much as you may feel that your situation with your spouse is unique in its difficulties at the end of the day you chose her to be your wife, the situation you find yourself in is of your own making.
Cobra, that statement is a very ugly thing to say. *She* didn't "get pregnant". It takes two remember? People get pregnant every day and don't choose to get married. But you did get married, so you did choose her. This M did not just happen *to* you!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Well, there you go. That there is a problem. You feel like you were tricked into this? That's what it appears. I can imagine a 19-year-old saying that, but a grown man? Have you not realized yet that you make your choices and make the most of them? You're not going to be open-minded to anything if you think you're being tricked into it. Take repsonsability for your actions man. Be a man! You make your life. Nobody else is to blame for the decisions you choose... do you really understand that?
Before you say, we'll I know that.. look back on that phrase. I didn't choose her. She got pregnant. Why did you say that?
May it be eternal while it lasts.
My sitch
Me: 36
H:34
M: 5 years
Bomb: 03/14/06
I don't say much on here, I mostly read, but my goodness this statement is not nice. It takes two to get pregnant, and you have to "choose" to get married. You make it sound like it was all her fault the pregnancy happened. Did you not use protection? You didn't "have" to marry her.
Guess what? I became pregnant too...prior to my marriage. However I CHOSE to marry my H and he CHOSE to marry me. You made a choice....you may not be happy with the choice you made, but you freely made a choice.
The point of my saying this is that at the time, we were split up and both on our own way. There was no love between us. Then she turns up pregnant. I decide to push for marriage, to make the best of a bad situation, not wanting to have a kid floating around in the world somewhere, to do the right thing, what ever. The fact remains that whatever love we have been able to develop has been over the few good times we’ve had, and centered on the kids.
I chose to go out with her, to sleep with her and have a good time. When the personality clashes began, we split. I never intended to marry her. She will readily admit that if it weren’t for the kids, she’d have left years ago. So would I. I do not, nor did I ever adore her, find her the most attractive woman on the planet, feel I couldn’t live without her, etc. There was no trick. Sh*t happens, we both fcuked up and now we are both trying to deal with it. Our relationship has held together this long out of our fears of abandonment, our love for our kids, and mutual respect for the positive aspects of each other. This last quality is what holds whatever slim hope we have for a future.
Cobra, I have been reading The Courtship of Cobra’s Wife with great interest. We have some similar problems to varying degrees, although I see your relationship as more dramatic in everyday events. I am understanding you and your POV in many circumstances but not all, so not everyone is against you.
I see GEL saying lose some of the anger in the approaches and Lil saying no matter what your W calls you, "YOU" be above that level and don't step in the mud by calling your W a FB or what ever is/was said.
I did not "chose" her. She got pregnant. Your child I assume?
When I was 16 or so, I decided no sex with a girl unless she was good enough to be the imagined mother of my 6 kids, my mother, or my best friends mother. I also put myself in the place in her maternal role (the potential sex partner/girlfriend), my role (the teen age male with the hots but 10 years after the sexual encounter and married to this sexual partner, and the child of these two people.
I can 100% imagine you didn't want the pregnancy but when you pull the lever of life having sex, sometimes it's babies straight across the face of the slot machine instead of cherries or lemons. I don't gamble so might be using the lemons and cherries terms wrong.
The only way to not choose, is not to play. But too late for that now. Everything has risks.
Cobra, my post is not intended to put me or you in any moral spot/position IE no moral or value judgements. I wanted to say in a way you did choose. Having an intention to not get pregnant is separate from choosing a wife.
I lived in a house with 18 people when I was 12 to 14 and saw what fooling around (having sex) resulted in sometimes. I decided I didn't want to have to get M. That was my choice and I am not saying anyone else should follow my actions.
I don't know if other young people consider their sexual partners relationships in this way very often. Maybe I worried too much, but I saw the gamble and chose not to be a dad if she (potential sex partner) got pregnant, so in a way you did choose your wife. I completely understand and feel the urges to merge and be sexual. Still do.
I don't have much to add so will just read for now. I think you are doing what you need to do. I also think GEL and Lil have some solid advice.
