The way I have found is the best route to H's heart regarding the tenderness v. running hot thing is this: Being tender while stroking his ego. That seems to take the Mom Edge off the encounter. He gets the admiring female and I get to indulge in my tender side. So I might say Wow you had a bad day at work. You look completely beat...let me get you a beer. Gosh is your neck always this tense? (rub his neck and dodge him trying to shoo me like a fly. This is, after all, MrHP we are talkin about here) You know, I can't imagine anymore what it would be like to voluntarily insert myself into the rat race. Thank you for doing that for all of us. I really appreciate it, especially when I see you on days like this.
He acts the entire time as if I've just subjected him to the most torturous treatment known to man, but I think he secretly likes it because he always comes back for more.
If I just flat out mothered him, he *would* swat me like a fly and that'd be the end of that.
Quote: Girl what the hell you talkin about. You totally lost me on that analogy. Write me again in normal language cause I am interested in what you, a fellow HD female 7, has to say.
LOL- It was a lame analogy.
Let me go to your own example of anti-Alphaness- your H's lack of decisiveness regarding whether he wants Burger King of Subway. Think about it this way. The fact that you are asking him to make a decision about the matter means that you are already driving the car and just trying to determine what his preferences might be regarding destination. Other examples of this would be asking him what color he thinks you should paint the living room or when he thinks you should take your family vacation or how much you should be putting aside for the kids college education. Being concerned about someone's preferences is oftentimes more the task of the leader rather than the follower. You can kid yourself into thinking that you are being subservient to somebody else's wishes when really you are being the benevolent General trying to keep the troops happy. Behind this behavior is the anxiety that if you don't take action nothing will get done. That's why I advise that you should practice not making any plans or trying to solve any problems. You really aren't that important. The world won't come to a crashing halt. Remember your Kafka.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Girl what the hell you talkin about. You totally lost me on that analogy. Write me again in normal language cause I am interested in what you, a fellow HD female 7, has to say.
LOL- It was a lame analogy.
Let me go to your own example of anti-Alphaness- your H's lack of decisiveness regarding whether he wants Burger King of Subway. Think about it this way. The fact that you are asking him to make a decision about the matter means that you are already driving the car and just trying to determine what his preferences might be regarding destination. Other examples of this would be asking him what color he thinks you should paint the living room or when he thinks you should take your family vacation or how much you should be putting aside for the kids college education. Being concerned about someone's preferences is oftentimes more the task of the leader rather than the follower. You can kid yourself into thinking that you are being subservient to somebody else's wishes when really you are being the benevolent General trying to keep the troops happy. Behind this behavior is the anxiety that if you don't take action nothing will get done. That's why I advise that you should practice not making any plans or trying to solve any problems. You really aren't that important. The world won't come to a crashing halt. Remember your Kafka.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Girl what the hell you talkin about. You totally lost me on that analogy. Write me again in normal language cause I am interested in what you, a fellow HD female 7, has to say.
LOL- It was a lame analogy.
Let me go to your own example of anti-Alphaness- your H's lack of decisiveness regarding whether he wants Burger King of Subway. Think about it this way. The fact that you are asking him to make a decision about the matter means that you are already driving the car and just trying to determine what his preferences might be regarding destination. Other examples of this would be asking him what color he thinks you should paint the living room or when he thinks you should take your family vacation or how much you should be putting aside for the kids college education. Being concerned about someone's preferences is oftentimes more the task of the leader rather than the follower. You can kid yourself into thinking that you are being subservient to somebody else's wishes when really you are being the benevolent General trying to keep the troops happy. Behind this behavior is the anxiety that if you don't take action nothing will get done. That's why I advise that you should practice not making any plans or trying to solve any problems. You really aren't that important. The world won't come to a crashing halt. Remember your Kafka.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Well, I guess I should have been more specific so that you didn't have to write all that out to me (3 times, LOL).
I am never the one driving--I hate driving. Also, I do not like to eat out so I'm never the one bringing up where to eat. He brings it up thusly: MrH: Where should I go to eat? HP: What sounds good to you? MrH: Don't start that. Just tell me where to go. HP: Fine. How about Burger King or Subway? MrH: What do *you* want? HP: Either one sounds fine to me, does one or the other sound better to you? MrH: Just tell me where *you* want to eat. HP: Subway MrH: Fine. (family goes to subway) Hour later, he will likely say something like "How come you're never in the mood for pizza?" Aaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhh!
Now, take this example and apply it from everything to where we should grocery shop to what we should have for dinner to what position we shall have sex in that night. He simply cannot make a decision, so afraid is he of not choosing the thing that (he thinks) I already have in mind.
The problem, of course, is that I am a type 7 and rarely have a certain thing in mind and am quite naturally flexible. If he chooses something I don't like, I'll usually go along with it and never say anything about it.
I am not really the benevolent general because I'll usually ask his preference but if he doesn't cough one up I just go ahead and do whatever I feel like. I don't really have that desire to make him happy by choosing pizza every time, say. Nor do I feel anxiety over being the decision maker. It annoys me, that's all. If I don't make the decision one won't get made. There have been times when I refused to be the Dinner Decider and he would eventually pull the car over, thoroughly frustrated and disgusted that I won't tell him where to go, and yet completely unable to choose a place himself. I just sit there, amused.
Not sure what that makes me but I'm sure you'll come up with a suitable analogy. LOL
P.S. back to the original topic......my mind was drifting in church yesterday and I found myself reacting on a physical level to the lector simply because he has an unbelievably deep voice. Total geek otherwise. But his voice could melt ya. He didn't LOOK like an Alpha Male--more skinny subservient dude--but he sounded like one.
Are you sure your H’s indecision is nothing more than simply being stuck in his FOO? Wasn’t he the people please as a child, always trying to appease everyone else, always worrying when the next fight would erupt? Kids in these households can become limp rag personalities, completely losing themselves to please others, all as a way to avoid confrontation. This is what you H sounds like to me. That is not the same as a follower or a weak alpha, but more a traumatized child.
Underneath, you see signs hat he is in fact all male and really does not like being led. He just isn’t comfortable being the one to lead. Leading can get you in trouble, especially if every choice you make is criticized. So better for him to know with certainty what you want, allowing his stress to go away, and then he can decide if your choice is acceptable to him or not. I’m betting the each time he says "How come you're never in the mood for pizza?" he is really not in agreement with your choice, but cannot muster up the courage to say otherwise. He just lets it out in a passive aggressive afterthought.
If this were your child struggling with this issue, how would you help him through his fear?
I think HP's husband is a pretty good example of how not to be an alpha.
I remember AtlDave sharing with us an conversation during the first meeting with a counselor. The counselor asked, "Do you go by 'Dave' or 'David'?" He replied, "Either one, I don't really care." The counselor said, "Why not?" It stopped him cold. The indecision or the non-preference or the "whatever you want" is a characteristic of the non-alpha.
An alpha needs to care enough to be called by his preferred name, and yes, needs to have a preference.
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