Interesting point. I would certainly agree that if something is done with the intention of hurting someone, it is definitely abuse.

If someone is abusive with the intention of hurting, then one must leave the R, IMHO. There is no redeeming feature to a R like that.

However, I don't think he intends to hurt me. I think he is ignorant of the proper way to behave and has some really bad habits. His way of snapping back at me is the way he habitually talks to his mom. She's 88 and runs a bar. The way they talk to each other is what I would call "low class." It's a habit; it's tacky. As I mentioned over on cobra's thread, when we first got together he figured he'd just talk to me the way he did to his ex and to his mom, but I said no. The "snappish" behavior is something he still does (but less of, since he started seeing this therapist a year ago).

He doesn't INTEND to hurt me, but it does hurt. We attended a workshop together a while ago... I guess it's been almost two years. And I was grappling with the same question back then, is he abusive? (Let's not even talk about what a sick puppy I am... ). The workshop leader, who saw him in action for a few days said, "He's not abusive, but it's also okay for you to say, 'I can't bear it any more.'"

You asked
Quote:

if a certain behavior by your bf toward you is classified as "abuse", how does that change your response? Is abuse something that must not be tolerated while meanness or rudeness are personality flaws that we need to learn to live with?


I think the answer is yes: abuse that intends to hurt is something one must not tolerate. Meanness and rudeness are bad habits and also shouldn't be tolerated except for a finite period of time while the person LEARNS better behavior. (I don't think they're personality flaws; I think they're part of human nature and anyone is capable of them.)

Thank you for your question; it has really helped me clarify my position to myself. If I thought he was INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt me, I would absolutely be out of here in a New York minute. What I see is a man under tremendous stress-- internal and external-- who has not learned to control his resentment and anger-- and 99.9% of this anger is NOT at me, but he takes it out on me. Not consciously and intentionally, but kind of the way that when you're in a bad mood, you snap at the one nearest to you. Or if your partner messes up, you want to punish them. I see some of this in cobra. If his W does something that he perceives as mean, he feels he's justified in calling her a name. I don't agree with this.

I told my bf in front of the therapist last week, "I want you to treat me with kindness, whether you think I DESERVE it or not." Even if I AM a b!tch, which I'm not, I want kindness. Doesn't mean he can't get mad at me, but I need to feel the kindness underneath it.

Reminds me of my favorite Paul Simon song, "Honesty": "I know you see through me, but give me some tenderness beneath your honesty."

Yeah... tenderness... that's what's missing...

There has to be a basic Level of Civility.

Goodness knows, I've been understanding, tolerant, patient with his snappish behavior for four years. Why? Because I do see improvement and I see him trying. He wants to be a civilized person, but I don't think anyone has ever held him to a high standard before.