Sherman, Thanks for the clarification and yes, definitely see where expectations would need to be low or else would trigger her "I'm no longer obligated to you" mechanism. Just looking to have some fun because we want to, not because we are obligated to and if it doesn't happen, I'm no worse off than I am today.
One of the things I recall from the DB book is to try and remember what worked in the past and what worked initially, and I keep getting back to having been a take charge kind of guy that she was attracted to. Granted she's not the same shy girl, but betting somewhere deep inside there's still a part. Indifference is the key to the possibility of her coming to me.
Hopefully am observant enough now to pick up on any signals that she's curious about the possibility of getting back together. Like what though? We did not have an acrimonious D, still hug, when I look in her eyes it's like any moment she could say something positive but hasn't yet. I'm hoping my new super-buff body and golden tan may be enough to attract her, her good cooking had me about 30 lbs overweight almost all of our M. Any other ideas on how to create attraction? Haven't gotten to frank_d's thread yet but will look for it tomorrow. Thanks a lot for the advice, RonJon
JSD, Good luck with the mediation tomorrow, if I had any advice about my experience with it, would be to make the lawyer work for you. Sometimes I think they put their own agenda ahead of the couples, all in their client's best interest of course but ends up lining their pockets, not yours or W's. Enjoy the kids, they are truely life's blessings. I'm still shocked that xw didn't even so much ask ask for them, let alone fight for them like I was prepared to do. They are what it's all about. Again, play it cool and remember that tomorrow is just another day and one will follow after that. Let us know how things go, RonJon
Got an e-mail today from xw with flight information. Made me think that again she's assuming I'll get to the airport for her like a "friend" would. Back to the old "what would help/what would hurt" the situation and decided to go ahead and pick her up this time.
She did put a line at the end asking me if she should look for a hotel to stay at while she's here based on what I feel comfortable with without giving me any indication of what she'd be comfortable with. That would be too easy I suppose. Was it out of courtesy to not seem presumptious or something else? It's my nature to overanalyze things despite my best attempts not to sometimes. Haven't e-mailed her back yet but leaning toward sticking with my initial consideration of letting her stay here since we have an extra room. Thoughts? RonJon
RonJon, I think the way I would approach this one is to do whats in the kids best interest, which would be to have her stay with you to see them as much as possible. If that benefits you also, so be it. But it's for the kids, right ? You KNOW you want her there, so use that as an excuse. You could even ask the kids which they would prefer. Like you don't know what the answer will be
Picked up xw at airport, had a bite to eat, did a little shopping for clothes and groceries, and now she's down for a nap. Her flight left Denver around 2 a.m. last night. Things have gone as usual so far, she has been very pleasant and I've tried to be upbeat but aloof. Forgot how good women smell after just us guys for six months. She did ask what room I wanted her in and for a moment considered putting her bag in the master bedroom but decided it was too early in the visit to try that and put her in the spare bedroom across the hall for now. Figure an hour break then head out for downtown.
Still trying to think of something different to do since this pleasant routine we went through last holidays and last summer but are still in the same overall situation. But sticking to todays plan at least and will see how things are by tomorrow's morning cup of coffee. Haven't had a chance to show off the new bod under the hawaiian shirt yet, maybe later will switch to a tee or suggest a walk on the beach around sunset and just take it off.
The kids were really surprised, S13 seems alot happier than S16 and D19 called and told me I should make her stay in a hotel room so they are a mixed bag. She seems pretty excited about my promotion and has asked more personal questions of me than she has in quite a long time so interest is there for either me or how it may affect the kids. Will keep posting and checking for input as available.
So far, have not been overly attentive and it has worked with her coming over to me on a few occasions when I've gone off to do my own thing. Hard not to make eye contact, it's what I usually go by as the window to determine how things are going. She's asleep now, after midnight her time and not a late nighter as is. She had been complaining about being able to sleep in the daughter's bed so had considered telling her that it would be OK to come acroos the hall but then reconsidered that tonight is too early even though that is twice she's said thngs that could be taken two ways.
We ended up going to the beach, had a drink, and watched the sunset which she enjoyed and commented that she should visit more often. Think she leaning toward coming here for Xmas rather than the boys going to CO which they really don't want to plus we may all go on a cruise. Forgot how much she could talk but suppose that is a good thing. Did take the dog for a walk in a tank top but she didn't say anything about my working out. She pretty much looked the same, maybe carrying a little winter weight for CO cold but she did say she brought her swimsuit and was looking forward to snorkling so will have a better view tomorrow. Cooked on the grill for dinner and so to this point things are going OK, she was tipsey after that one mai-tai so will store that bit of info. Tried this thing I'd heard about touching her when she seems especially happy like when we laugh about something. Supposed to lock the memory in or something is the theory. It's just on the shoulder or on the leg type of thing and she hasn't pulled away or said anything. She'll be up early and the boys sleep late so we plan on getting in an early round of golf in the morning. She seems to be paying as much attention to me as she is the boys, hopefully my perception is not off there.
One big question I could use advice on, she still has not admitted to me about the om and I'm wondering if that's something we'd need to get in the open, get through, and have it put behind us to make progress or just keep being the new om myself and see where things go. Kind of split on thinking what's best but would like to hear what any others think.
Also wer're going to plan activities tomorrow, I'm thinking maybe dinner-cruise and swim with the dolphins in addition to the snorkling and dinner/movie and b-day party. Well, we'll see how things go during the golfing tomorrow, will post again when I can, RonJon
The golfing went well as far as the company goes. For someone who has taken lessons and played alot latel she stunk up the course. But opposite of when in the past I would try and tell her (unsolicited) what she was doing wrong which would only make her madder, I just worked on keeping things light focusing on the positives (exercise, company, Hawaii weather, whatever) and only provide tips when she persited in asking. So that outing went well and then we went shoping the two of us which also kept the conversations going. After being in a cave with two teenage sons with the occasional grunt have probably talked more in the last two days than all of last four months.
Highpoints, we talked about Thanksgiving and she mentioned that D19 didn't want to go over some old friends we used to know when she was a child and I couldn't help it because I suspected and asked "is it just you two that would be going?" because I know my D19 will not tolerate any "family activities w/om, not her family. xw said yes, just us two but who knows for sure. Didn't dampen the conversation which quickly moved on.
We went on a dinner cruise but xw didn't bring a dress so she was trying on some of D19s that had been left here but kept saying they made her look too young which was ironic because when we started to break up she would wear very young looking clothes but didn't like it when I brought that up. Talk about a flip-flop. Anyway, thecruise went well although somwhat awkward when one of the crew tried to get us to dance, later xw just sat near the dance floor and Itried to get either of the sond to dance but they wouldn't so I just went up in the crowd and danced and soon both xw and S13 came on the floor also. About the only other highlight was when she was settling in for the night and since she had been complaining about not sleeping well in D19s bed said "if you can't sleep well, you have options and gave a big smile and rolled my eyes across the hall to the master bedroom. She laughed and said "yeah, right" which I supppose is better than anything that starts with go ____, or ___ off or getting serious.
We have the Sea life aquarium/park in the morning and see if we can survive the Stingray tank, they have renamed them Hawaiian rays to sound less ominus. And then some snorkling so swimsuit competition tomorrow.
So lets have it, the positive and the negative. RonJon
darn computer/web locked up this morning and wouldn't post, good thing I copied; here it is:
Well, she wasn't in my room when I went up and didn't come in during the night. This morning had a setback over coffee & breakfast. We were talking about D19 and her troubles at college and we both had our share of focusing in college and when she mentioned her talk with D19 about not making the same mistakes she did I mentioned that D19 made it sound like xw made it sound like her entire life got off track because of that and in my attempt to get it focused on just the college was a mistake she started crying and saying she had no regrets (which I know she has but was not about to say anything). Anyway to try and change the subject went ahead and said that I had regrets and one was being a d!@k to her and all people for years and that got her off D19 but into how we should have gone to counseling, she just stopped caring, etc. She's up in the shower now.
Man. guess that stuff is still too close to the surface or too recent which I kind of had an idea of but wanted to take advantage of her visit as an in-person opportunity. More emotion than in a long while (good/bad?). Will be backing way off today and just see where she goes from here. Will not ogle at the bathing suit and will try to keep looking good in mine.
Good thing I didn't get my expectations up going into this visit. Ah, who knows whether opening up will improve things or make them worse, we'll see how the day goes and just try to enjoy it like every day. It would just be so much easier if she'd say she's sees I've changed (which she has said) and that D was a mistake and we should try again (which she obviously hasn't said) but she's a rather practical person and probably doesn't see how the logistics could work. That and the thing where when she filed she said ILYBNILWY. Maybe it's a concept I just don't get. Good thing I don't let anything bother me (for too long)anymore.
If nothing else, the gears will be turning in her head and maybe a seed planted that will grow into something over time.
OK, she's out. Need to go. RonJon
Will try to catch up with the rest of the day's activities later if time permits.
The short version is that things went quite well and concluded with some kisses at the airport upon departure.
Now for today.....Go Buckeyes!!!! way to beat those Wolverines!!!! AND as soon as the final seconds ticked off the clock, my cell phone started ringing and of all the people who could be calling me guess who it was? Not too hard to figure out I know because I'm posting about it but yes, it was xw. Again, how weird and un-D like is that to call and want to share in my celebration (she's from MA so not an OSU fan except to support me)? She was at a bar and was telling me about how it was all Michigan fans there and stuff and when I told her I was having a game-party at the house with a bunch of folks it kind of caught her off-guard. Will admit I was a grump and had very few party-hostings over the years which xw used to not like about me but this should be an unintentional point made about how I've changed. It was mostly guys over the house, one gal, but I didn't tell her that. Anyway we had a good highly positive talk and then I told her I had to get back to my guests.
Not being one to want to read too much into anything but help me out here folks, what does that sound like to you?
Think I'm going to invite her on a holiday cruise the end of next month. At first had just planned for S19 & me w/xw staying here with S14 and S16 but the way things are going, think the whole crew should go and we'd have a great time.
