Moving to this board after a year of separation and just waiting for the paperwork to go through the system. Debating whether to post on this board or the "Surviving the Big D" and as a guy that likes to keep his options going will probably post on both but after what happened today, decide to start here first.
The STBXW called today out of the blue and when I asked her "Whats Up?" (because she only calls when she either wants something or wants to complain about something), she said she just wanted to talk which caught me off guard. I mean we are done, there's nothing more she can get out of the D. Tried to cut the conversation short but she was very persistent a I didn't want to be rude.
It finally came to me what today was, the anniversary of our Wedding. When we met, we were both in the Air Force and overseas with our rotation back to the states not far off so we flew back for a quick City Hall marriage (to get assigned together at the next base) and went back to plan our big church wedding, Aug 14th, '83. Even still, if we are over, why would she call? Now I'm caught in the conundrum of having told her I would not be friends if after a D and I caved already Then I got to thinking, what if this is another test of hers? Should I be nice to just keep the peace? Then think that, heck no, don't be strung along by her. Dang, I don't like to have my head messed with especially when she always seems to win these head games. Perhaps I'm being too analytical about the whole thing, or maybe not enough. How I long for the days when I didn't think about these sorts of things. Then again, not being observant or thinking before doing is probably what put me on this troubled path. Hmmmm....
At this point all I can do is make a plan in case it happens again. Should I just come out and tell her that I don't want to talk to her any more (even though it was pleasant), come up with some excuse to get off the phone, or just go ahead and talk with her? Or other? I'm at a loss, maybe things will be clearer after a drink and a good nights rest. Still can't figure out why she would call after Ding, me, maybe the only thing I can come up with is that she thinks it would make her feel better (i.e. less guilty) about the whole thing if she thinks we're still friends? If so, remaining honest as I have been is the way to go, just tell her again we can't be friends. Sound logical? Any input on my babbling? Thanks, RonJon Links to old threads follow:
Couple other things came to mind over the past couple days and one was that maybe that phone call was the last one she planned to have w/me before the D becomes final and she wanted it to be on a good note. It could have been her testing the water but don't belive that much. When I asked how "Ma" was doing (my MIL) she said she really hadn't talked to her in a long while because "all she (MIL) ever wants to talk about is herself". Excuse me, but here's the point when you should pick up a mirror .
So what I've decided that when/if she does call again "just to talk", the conversation will go something like this: While I do enjoy talking with you, unless there is something about our children we need to discuss or you seriously want to try and get back together, we can't be friends and to try to have freindly chats would not be sincere on my part and I want to be honest about everything. Yes, that's the plan and what I feel will be best for me. Any fine tuning advice or something I may have missed? RJ
Situation: Both 47, married 24 yrs, 3 kids D19 @college, S13 &S16 w/me, thousands of miles from W. Separated Aug 05, she filed Jan 06. No real issues during M (violence, affairs, etc), she "just wanted to live life to the fullest". Suspect probable OM since Jan. See D as inevitable once paperwork processes, trying to figure out what may come next/direction to take.
I don't know which forum is the best. I started out in Infidelity and then moved over to Surviving. My D is in the works but not final. I received a lot of support in both places. Since I am not legally divorced, I consider myself "surviving." It's all a matter of personal choice.
I have been struggling with the whole "friend" issue myself. I have no desire to be friends with my STBXH. I get weird vibes from him that he wants us to be friends. I flat out told him 3 years ago that if our R didn't work out that I would never be his friend. At the time, I said it because I was so madly in love with him and if he chose to end our marriage, I thought I would only be able to survive by completely distancing myself from him. About 3 months after H walked, I decided I didn't want to be his friend simply because I didn't like him very much. I'm surviving just fine without him, thank you very much. H has direct contact with our children as they all have their own cell phones. I don't have to arrange visitation as they are old enough to do that themselves. H isn't interested anyway. He's taken them out for lunch maybe 4 times since he left.(Sept 05) I really don't have much to discuss with him.
My question to you is, what do you want? I don't think it's necessary to make any statements to the Xes. I think actions speak louder than words. Do you have caller ID? Can't she leave a message? What about email. A lot can be accomplished in cyberspace without you having to stroke her ego or make her feel good about herself.
the only thing I can come up with is that she thinks it would make her feel better (i.e. less guilty) about the whole thing if she thinks we're still friends? Yes, I think that can be part of it.
I don't think it's necessary to declare to her what your intentions are going to be in this area.
I wish you well. Hang in there.
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
Two observations: 1) Way too much analyzing what her motives are. Who knows. Chalk it up that she wanted to talk, and if you were pleasant enough to talk to, and she might want to talk again later.
2) Do you want to be with her again or not? If so, then you belong here. Also, if you do I don't recommend going this route
Quote: While I do enjoy talking with you, unless there is something about our children we need to discuss or you seriously want to try and get back together, we can't be friends and to try to have freindly chats would not be sincere on my part and I want to be honest about everything.
I don't think that's the way to start. Consider starting over with someone completely new. Is that how you are going to start out?
My advice is to just go with the flow. You enjoyed talking to her....then talk to her. Be yourself. Pretend she's a woman you just met that is calling you up.
In the meantime you should continue with GAL activities. Start phasing her out. If she should ever consider trying again then you can give her an honest answer, not clouded by the scorn of rejection or wanting what you can't have.
Me
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
SpitFire, I'm in the same boat, not legal yet but the wheels are turning. Will probably end up in surviving the big D but if there is a possibility of getting back together, will keep an eye and post on this board also. Same with the friend dilema and being fine by myself, kids have their phones too although only rarely used by STBXW. Guess figuring what I want is the $1M question. Phone does have caller ID and can choose not to answer, haven't answered recent e-mails. I don't know.
JM, Suppose its my nature to analyze, and with the trust broken in the past year, trying to be careful not to walk into anything. As you said, maybe she just wanted to talk and had no motive at all. Do I want to be with her again or not? Another tough question, maybe $64k. Don't think I've detached to the point to where if she said she wanted to try to make things work again I'd say no. On the flip side, do not to be in a perpetual "just friends" limbo. Therein lies the analysis and the title of my thread. Trying to learn from people like you and SF the liklihood of former partners reconnecting and ways it can happen. Understand that freindship is a step towards reconnection but again, not an acceptable endpoint. I've read the "act as if" parts of the book but can't see how that could apply to people that were married 24 yrs to act as if they never met them before. The memories, good and bad, can't be erased. Actions do speak louder than words and her D actions send the message that we need to ba apart for now.
So what I want is to either get back together or go our separate ways, not be caught in-between. When/if she does call again and indicates she wants to move in a together direction, I'll be back here looking for more advice. Otherwise, when I'm ready, will probably be posting on the surviving board. The life of an LBS, does it ever simplify? RonJon
I'm a year down the road from when she moved out, and about 8 months after the D. She's remarried, I'm enagaged. My finances are beginning to calm down, but we're currently involved in a custody change (S13's request to move back with me), so there's some drama going on there.
Of course it's never as simple as it was before, because there are just more variables in the situation, but it doesn't stay in constant turmoil forever. You'll work through the hurt, you'll detach, you'll arrange your affairs to meet the new realities post-D. Her gyrations which have twisted you up into knots in the past will somehow come to be viewed with an amused raised eyebrow and a chuckle.
So hang in there, it's going to get better, you'll regain your sense of balance and life will go on!
Spoke with the xw for the 1st time in two months. Seems she calls on anniversaries of things (not M). We talked pleasantly for around 30 minutes, mostly about her oldest, best friend that has C that she traveled to visit last weekend and our D19's breakup w/her boyfriend and me and the boys' cruise last week and some other things. Fortunately we were at the theater and had to get off the phone because the movie was starting.
It was strange in the facts that it was the 1st conversation since D went final, being thousands of miles away and just not talking to her for so long but yet at no point were there any uncomfortable moments. Like we just talked yesterday or everyday or something.
Know it made the boys (S14 & S16) happy since I'd refused to speak with her tha last couple of times, just wasn't in the mood/didn't see the point. XW had been e-mailing me and only answered a couple. We'll have to see what, if anything happens next. Maybe she was talking with me more to make the kids happy than anything else too. We didn't talk about how we'll handle the holidays but that will have to happen sooner or later. RonJon
RonJon, I have also been dealing with the same thing that you are---only mine has been going on for 4 years. My X and I were married for 20 years when he left and moved in with OW. We have been D'd for about 8 months now. We still chit chat on the phone occasionally. I usually let the X initiate, although I have called him--usually if it has something to do with our boys. His usually start out about our kids, but sometimes he'll call about something else.
I have noticed over all this time that it is easier for him to talk to me on the phone than it is to talk to my face. Probably the guilt thing. They aren't usually oblivious to the pain that they have caused. It's easier not to have to look in our eyes, I guess.
Yes, there have been times when I have told him that I can't see or talk to him. It's too painful for me sometimes--although time is fixing that somewhat. It's painful not to see or hear from him too, and sometimes I wonder which is worse.
As far as being his friend---I wouldn't say that I am his friend--after all, we were much more than friends, and have a lot of history together. I can't act like we were less than we were.
But I am also glad that I kept communication open with him. It makes things so much easier when we have to make arrangements for the boys. He has been really good about taking them when I need him to, and vice versa. It's helped as far as our kids that we get along.
That's not to say that it is always easy, or that I am always willing to talk to him--and when I am in that type of mood--I let him know that I can't deal with him right now. Sometimes it is just too hard.
Anyway, you have to do what you feel is best for you. If that means no contact, then so be it. But, if you do have some hope of ever reconnecting, I don't think that I would close that door all the way. You do not have to make the effort of calling or emailing her--I think that is considered pursuing (which we have been told is a no no). But, if she contacts you, and you can talk to her as if you would a friend, then feel free to do that. As long as you think that it is ok for you. Cut the conversation short if you need to--just try not to be hateful about it.
Who knows why she is calling and emailing. I've spent over 4 years trying to figure my X out, and I still haven't and doubt I ever will.
DNO, For me its got to be phone calls, wer're thousands of miles away from each other. Which is probably safest for OM. Most times I don't want to talk because think I might get ticked off and say something I shouldn't or also an immature thing I needed to work through like my talking to her was giving her something she needed when we went through months of that without anything from her. Have learned to forgive and get over that though.
The friend thing is a dillema that is hard to get past. Just friends is not a permanent solution, like you said too much history to go there. I've finally accepted that there can be no reconciliation down the road without going through the friendship step. The key is to approach it from a non-needy position. If I'm OK with knowing it may not work out and either one of us may walk away again then that's all right. The needy thing would be pursuing like if I initiated any calls, e-mails, or letters which I haven't for months and it seems to be working OK. So far have found polite ways to end conversations before they become uncomfortable for me with too many pauses. Never was at my best on the phone. If she gets to the point where she asks "why do I always have to initiate" then maybe we can work something else out.
Got another call from xw on sunday, that made two calls in two days, something would not have thought possible. Granted, she was calling because she heard about the earthqaukes and wanted to see if we were all right but there sounded like genuine concern in her voice. But then again maybe it was just for her two sons here. Guess I'll have to put an asterisk in the record book for this one.
By the way, we are OK, lots of shaking and rocking, worst part was that power was out for over 12 hrs but otherwise pulled through. RonJon
Spoke w/xw over the phone today, D19 called me when they were at the grocery store and put her on the phone. We talked for a few minutes, mostly about the kids but also how we were doing, actually had a few laughs from both of us during the convo which I can't remember the last time that happened. She got off the phone 1st this time because they had made it to the checkout counter.
Realize this is pretty much insignificant and doesn't change things because she didn't really call me, got maneuvered into it like me but we did share laughs which we hadn't done in a long time to make it worth at least a short journal here. So was freindly but this friend thing is still too bizzare to me so won't get into overanalyzing. RonJon - planting seeds
