Piper, Thank you so much for the response. You are a thoughtful and worthy person. I am sorry I made you hurt more, I really want you to understand, because you seem so willing to do what it takes, and I really meant to help, and to seek your help, for which I would be most humbly grateful. What I want is for the hurting to stop. I do feel that in a sense all infidelity is connected--if you hadn't done it, or if the OW in my H's life had refused, then there would be less hurt in the world. But no, you didn't hurt me, in fact, I think you can help me, and have by your posts, which are so open and obviously sincere.
Let me please clarify a few things which your post brought up. 1. I don't want him to hurt--Hear me on this, it is true. 2. A large reason for keeping quiet is to keep him from being hurt further. I DON'T want people to think of him as a cheater. Partly this is selfish, it reflects rather poorly on my judgment. But mostly, it can only hurt more people who don't deserve it--the others I mentioned. I mentioned them, but he is definitely included. It the pain I am against, for anyone. 3. You mentioned that you need to help him, and not let on that it bothers you. That second part is not true, I think that hiding what is on our minds is the destructive path--remember the days of telling each other everything, the intimacy that led to your marriage? You don't need to hide your pain, you simply need to tell him, when he brings it up, that you are so sorry you hurt him, that you can see so clearly now that he is the man for you, and that you will never forget that or question it again. Tell him the reasons, like you told us in your posts. It is ok to repeat this about forty thousand times. 4. Some other things I would like to hear: "Please don't stop believing in me--I will make this up to you, whether you can see it now or not, I will be here for you." or I will make myself worthy of you. You don't have to believe this, you will experience it. Promise. or How can I help you feel less pain? or I know it is always on your mind, so let's try some techniques together to get past this, let's go to a movie Friday and invite another couple. Or is there something you would rather do? or I am going to be strong for both of us, so you can cry all you want, and I will still love you and want you. or I know you are bothered about telling the kids. I think they should know what we went through, if you want them to, but first, we have to get you healed and healthy and happy and laughing, and put our marriage on a sailboat to Tahiti. Then, I promise I will help us talk to them. 5. Some things he can do: Hold me. Tenderly. In the kitchen while I am preparing dinner. In the bathroom while I am brushing my teeth. In public. Grocery store would be nice. Show the world that its us against them. Show the OW of the world that its us against them. Show the OW here that love and kindness and family triumph. Compliment me. About forty thousand times. Compliment me in front of our children. Compliment me when I am not around. Fold laundry while wearing underwear on his head. Bring me flowers, all the time, walmart flowers are great Help me laugh again, funny movies, comedy, lightness, jokes by email, whatever. Repeat. Repetition is totally underrated. Finally, let me say this, and please try to hear it. The more pain your H is experiencing and the longer it takes to get through this, the MORE YOU WERE AND ARE LOVED. If he didn't care it wouldn't hurt--the more he cares for YOU, the more your betrayal hurts him. That makes you pretty lucky, to have a guy who adored you, and will again, so yes, you are on the right track, stay there, you can make him feel so much better. Ask him how, do what he asks. That is, I think, why I am in so much trouble. I loved him so much--I believed in him more than he believed in himself, and, idiot that I am, I still do.
One more thing that might help you. I want to be told the details of my H's affair, sexual details, because, although I don't want to hear this stuff, I also want to know that if he will describe her to me, in every detail, then she has lost the "private" access to him. In other words, it will be the two of us against a person who invaded our marriage and home. If he keeps it to himself, even if to spare me, or to spare him, then it seems that she got away with a piece of his intimacy that I still don't have, can't share. I can more easily forgive if I have "all" of him back, and I get that when I get his secrets from his mouth. He is very afraid, that this will be terribly painful, which it will, but if it helps me, he needs to do it for me. Its ok for him to say it makes him ashamed, and afraid it will make me more ashamed of him. I want him to say that. It won't make me more ashamed of him. Because I know it is so hard, it will make me more proud of him, that he is willing to this out of love for me, --I see it as being fully engaged in our recovery--the difference between saying "I will do whatever it takes" and doing it. It will be a sign that he trusts me in a way which he never trusted her. He says he never mentioned me to her, but he told me about her. If he tells me everything about her, it reduces her importance and her control and her signigicance. If she was really important to him, would he reveal this about her to me? I don't think so.I like that better, and that's why I need to hear it, though I don't want to. Ultimately, it is hugely comforting. Does that make sense?
Quote: Grasshopper, why is that your name? just curious.
Well, my name when I first got here was Totallymessedup. I posted under that name for awhile and then someone suggested that I was doing ok with all this DB stuff and that totallymessedup didn't really apply to me anymore, that I should change my screen name. I didn't right away but then they kept asking (I think...anyway, it's somewhere on my VAST number of threads) and I finally did change it to grasshopper. Joker is right, it comes from the old Kung-fu series on TV. I chose it because in my mind I equate the name with someone who's diligently learning something.
Quote: Has your W told you if her A was physical?
Yes and no. She finally admitted after denying it (she says she never did deny it but...) that there WAS a physical component to their affair but that it did NOT include sex. Of course, that bring up all kinds of "Clinton-esque" things to mind about the individual definitions of sex, but... Anyway, she says one of the reasons she wanted to break things off with him was that he was pressuring her to have sex and she didn't want to. She usually makes a big issue about the fact that she "would not do that" but then again, before all this she would never have had an affair either so...
In terms of why she still would talk to him, she SAYS she was still trying to back things off but then after awhile, started having feelings again. Big surprise. This time, since saying she was still in love with him about a month and a half ago, and then supposedly saying she decided to work on our marriage and that was "over" for good, I don't know if they talk. My main reason for thinking they do is that her phone stays in her car but even that is not proof because she admits that he still calls her but she SAYS she doesn't answer. I doubt that.
I think that if she ever gets serious about our marriage, 100% committed to it, she will HAVE to go cold turkey. At this point, I suspect there is still a tie that binds and for whatever reason she's still not 100% back in. I could be wrong but most of all, I am trying not to dwell on that. She will come clean, or not on her own schedule. I understand about how the lies may destroy our marriage, but I am unwilling to force that issue. If she decides to be with me for good and tell me the truth, it will be because she wants to, not because I "emote" it out of her. Sorry, I can't be responsible for THAT part of our reconciliation. I will meet her 3/4 of the way, but she does have to take a few steps on her own, and this is one of them.
