I wonder if anyone would be willing to help us out. Sorry I haven't figured out all the accronyms yet. I had a affair that started as an EA in September last year and turned into a PA in October, and ended after I had a stress induced breakdown in November and went to another country to get away from OM. (I had family there who I stayed with and H knew exactly what I was doing and where I was going and why). My H and I are still together. Now we are trying to recover from it.
Lately H has been having a very difficult time, it started getting bad in the last couple of months. I am not headed down the road of divorce, but I just thought there might be some people here who could help. I am definitely married to the right guy, there is no question in my mind. He says he feels the same. So it is dealing with what happened that we need help with. We've been to counsellors, individually and together.
One of my fears is that he wants to hold onto my affair, and never let himself forget it, those arent' the right words, he'll never forget it. I mean let go of it. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it the anger that makes him want to do this? What do I say and do when he is feeling this way? I am really struggling as anything I say is wrong.
Another fear I have is that any issue we have, regular things in a marriage like communication for example, get completely overshadowed by the topic of my affair. Is this the normal healing process? Should the marriage issues that we have and already had before the affair not ever be addressed? Do I put them on the backburner until H is not so angry?
H will bring up my affair, sometimes on a daily basis, and relate it to many things in our lives. I don't feel like he wants to be happy. Has anybody else in his situation felt like they wanted to hang onto the affair and relate it to nearly every thing in their current lives at the expense of their own happiness? Is this to be expected?
Another strange question, which makes me uncomfortable. H will talk and talk about my affair, and I feel sick to my stomach for hurting him so badly. This makes me either feel, or want to feel very alone. If, after his angry and hurt feelings have passed, he tries to hug or kiss me or be close in any way, I find myself unable to reciprocate. I think there are two reasons, one, I am unable to go from feeling like the scum of the earth to feeling intimate in any way, rather I feel very much alone and like I should be alone. Two, I feel he is using being intimate (including wanting sex immediately after a discussion about the affair) as a form of control and punishment. He says he's not, that sex is a way for him to feel closer to me after feeling so bad. I tell him I can't just switch that on after being beaten down (not physically) repeatedly. I feel he is punishing me and fine if that's what he needs to do, but it's a little unrealistic to think that I will suddenly be in the mood following a reminder of how awful a person I am. So my question is is this normal? Please, especially guys who's wives have cheated on them any insight would really help.
Well, fortunatly for me I'm not as bad off as your H seems to be, but let me see if I can help some and then let others who are closer to being the same add their stories.
Quote: Lately H has been having a very difficult time, it started getting bad in the last couple of months.
I'm curiouse, has something happened during this time, or something changed that cause this sudden change, or has it built up to it or something?
I'm sure he doesn't 'want' to hold onto it and would like to forget it. If he is angry though, then when it passes through his mind he gets hurt. With most men Hurt=Angry unless they are willing to just deal with the hurt. If not, it keeps getting covered by the anger and never really delt with.
Unfortunatly, your H is going to have to deal with and solve this problem within himself. He is the only one who can. It does worry me a little you guys have done the C thing and there are still issues. All I would know to tell you at this point is to continue to try and validate his feelings and just be patient and give him time. Time will help it. I'm sure you have said sorry, etc... There is nothing else you can do, just let him say what he has to when he has to and try not to make it any worse.
Quote: If, after his angry and hurt feelings have passed, he tries to hug or kiss me or be close in any way, I find myself unable to reciprocate.
I believe what he is telling you about this is true. IMHO, when this happens, he tears his own ego down a little thinking about the A. After he gets it all out, then he needs you to be with him to feel like you do want him and love him. Men know, for the most part, what sex means to a woman, especially when they known they have pleased the woman in every way. This is the biggest ego boost. I think he needs that to regain a good feeling about himself where you are concerned.
All also understand where your coming from and I think you communicated that very well to him. I would stand your ground on what you said to him and just do what you can do to support him. Maybe he will come to realize, that to get that ego boost, or make him feel better and connected to you, he needs to change his approach about how to handle is feelings about the A.
Anyone else?
Learn to laugh at it. People are people and everyone is human. Choose how you will act and don't re-act.
I told my H I'd forgive him about his EA and never wanted to talk about it. But until last week I constantly thought about it, about OP, about what ifs, it was a monkey on my back. I wanted to forget but my mind kept bringing it up, at the beginning it made me sick and angry but wouldnt' tell H. It is normal to go through that anger period, it isnt' normal to rub it on an spouse over and over, I belive my H would've left again had I brought it up every and any time.
Sure, it must've hurt your H something horrible, but he needs in his heart to decide to put it behind him and NEVER to bring it up again. Have a talk w/him and explain him that every time he brings it up it creates a bigger gap between you, that you want to heal but that he isnt' letting you.
Sometimes I wanted to talk about the A just to know how deep he was involved w/her or how repentant my H really was. If you've already appologize there is no need for him to bring it up ever again. Whenever I'd push for more details my H just refused to answer, it'd made me mad but in retrospect I see that it was for the best, by not feeding my curiosity I stopped fueling the fire.
As for other issues, if they are still a problem now and are recurrent they definetly HAVE to be addressed, otherwise it is like letting a would fester and infect. He does sound like he is manipulating you w/this new "weapon" he has found. The best approach is what my H did, whenever he brings it up you tell him you aren't going there, you aren't talking about it and that if your H still has issues w/it to talk to a councelor, then leave the room. Maybe in some weird way he thinks he'll get more out of you -by making you feel guilty- by bring it up.
Good luck))))))
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
The hurt and the pain are unbelievable. The anger is also a big part of that. In my case the A made me feel worthless, unneeded, like all the special good times that we have had in the past were a farce. I didn't and couldn't see that my anger was driving a wedge between us. I used the anger to put all the blame on her for our sitch. The anger wouldn't let me see otherwise. I wish someone would have asked me a couple of easy question to put things into perspective, and maybe when we were talking to a C that happened. The simple question I wish someone would have asked (when I wasn't so angry) was "What are you trying to have happen by being angry?" and "What do you hope to accomplish by being angry?" For me that would have made me start thinking and stop feeling for a while to see what I was doing and how that wasn't helping anything, myself included.
After venting and releasing some of the anger was when I would actually feel the feelings that where behind my anger. That was when the pain started to seep back in. That was also the time when I wanted to feel loved again by my W. When I wanted to have some affection.
I know that it doesn't help you to be more affectionate, but at least you can see some of the weird logic behind his actions. BTW, I have learned a lot from what I use to think and know.
I also have a few questions for you. How long did the A last? What brought you back to your H? Sorry if I seem nosy, but I have a strong dose of curiosity I'm forever fighting.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
Wow Piper, I wish I had read your post earlier. I am VERY interested in what you are saying because what you report, not really the details, but the feelings/actions sound VERY much like how I think my W sees things. I would like to respond to a lot of what you said. I hope I can help you, but much of what I may say is just an attempt to relate your sitch to my W's and maybe help us all.
Quote: One of my fears is that he wants to hold onto my affair, and never let himself forget it, those arent' the right words, he'll never forget it. I mean let go of it. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it the anger that makes him want to do this? What do I say and do when he is feeling this way? I am really struggling as anything I say is wrong.
For me, I am "holding onto my W's affair", as I'm SURE she still thinks I am, because while I think SHE thinks she made it clear it's over, to me, she has not. The last time we spoke about it she said MANY things about being confused, still loving him, etc. A few days later, in a VERY brief convo she did manage to say that she was just expressing feelings but that the affair was over and she was committed to "us". To me, her longer form talk about all the confusion (mind you, after a couple months of supposed reconciliation and the affair being "over") rang more true to me that "it's over now and I am back working on us."
For me, it's not so much anger as it is that she hasn't yet found the voice to express how she feels about ME, and why things are over because she wants to be with me. I know you said you and your H both feel this way, and I would think my W would say the same thing, but in the face of our daily life, where she still has plenty of opportunity, etc, to carry on the affair, I think I am still untrusting of her.
One of the HUGE things I told her I want from her, and she has really yet to demonstrate to me, is that she WANTS me to trust her, i.e. do things that are clearly designed to win back my trust. For example, if she is "unavailable" for a long time and she sees I have called her cell phone, just acknowledge that I may have been worried and then reassure me that I need not be. She seems VERY put off by any need I have for reassurance and frankly, I am put off by it too because it seems needy... yet, I can't deny that it's what I want from her. I basically want her to understand my feelings and validate them with her words/actions ESPECIALLY when it concerns things in her life that she KNOWS could look like the affair all over again.
I think what you are REALLY asking him to do is trust you again, and I don't think either you or my W (or me/your h for that matter) get how hard that is, how important it is, or how to do it.
As far as anything you say being "wrong" I think my W feels this way too and this may be 100% my sitch alone, not yours, but my W tends to be VERY defensive or even offensive when it comes to the subject of her actions, as if I have no right to question her... at least that's how I see it. She may just be feeling guilty or whatever, but I suppose I may make her feel wrong for a lot of what she says too, and that no matter what she says, I'll take it the wrong way. I can't help you there other than to suggest that you really take a hard look at what you are really communicating to him, and HOW you're doing it. Remember, no matter how much we don't want to, we feel like we've been wronged here, we feel like victims, ESPECIALLY someone who's not read these books, or participates on this board.
Quote: Another fear I have is that any issue we have, regular things in a marriage like communication for example, get completely overshadowed by the topic of my affair. Is this the normal healing process?
My W says the same thing. She gets pissed at me all the time because I seem to relate everything back to the affair, even mundane things in our life, hell, even things on TV. I think this is all part of the underlying fact that for me, and your H, this affair is still VERY fresh and while you may have undergone a massive shift in focus/emotions/actions to end the affair, i.e. you're in a new place right now, for me and your H, we are still in that place where our wives cheated on us. We have not been forced to put that out of our minds, nor do we feel particularly willing to do so. It's not that I want to be angry, it's more that I need to see more from her before I trust her to put myself out there.
The sad part is that I say that as a man committed to compassion/empathy towards my W no matter what she's done. Your H may not have that same commitment and all I can say is that he is probably just still seeing things through affair colored glasses.
I can tel you that on a daily basis, I still see "affair" all around me and it's REALLY hard to purge that feeling from my mind. I know it's wrong to rely on W to do that for me, but I guess I want help from her in the form of WANTING me to believe it's over. So far, I don't get that she wants that. She only seems to resent me for just not trusting her.
Quote: H will bring up my affair, sometimes on a daily basis, and relate it to many things in our lives. I don't feel like he wants to be happy. Has anybody else in his situation felt like they wanted to hang onto the affair and relate it to nearly every thing in their current lives at the expense of their own happiness? Is this to be expected?
My W says I do this all the time. She said that recently in a R talk, that I take "jabs" at her all the time. I didn't really know what that meant, but I guess I see it.
You somehow assert that this means he/I don't want to be happy. I don't really understand that. I want to be happy but that doesn't change the fact that I don't trust a lot in my world right now, especially when it comes to my W. I WANT to trust her, and WANT to be happy, in fact, I AM happy much of the time, but then there are times when that song comes on, or there is a sitch on a TV show, or a conversation goes to a certain place and the WHAM! I am right back in affair-land again. It's MY problem for sure, but one I really think my W could help me diffuse if she wanted to. Maybe I am DEAD wrong about that. I can say that even though she doesn't do AS MUCH as I'd like in this respect, she is trying and between what she's doing, and what I am doing here and elsewhere to help myself, we ARE making progress. I just wonder how much progress SHE thinks we are making if she sees things the same way you do.
Quote: Another strange question, which makes me uncomfortable. H will talk and talk about my affair, and I feel sick to my stomach for hurting him so badly. This makes me either feel, or want to feel very alone. If, after his angry and hurt feelings have passed, he tries to hug or kiss me or be close in any way, I find myself unable to reciprocate. I think there are two reasons, one, I am unable to go from feeling like the scum of the earth to feeling intimate in any way, rather I feel very much alone and like I should be alone. Two, I feel he is using being intimate (including wanting sex immediately after a discussion about the affair) as a form of control and punishment.
This is the thing that interested me the most. First of all, many times, when I talk about the affair, or even make a joke about it (sadly, I do this from time to time in an ill-conceived attempt to diffuse the sitch), I don't really even realize I am doing it. I don't consciously do it to hurt her. Hell, until you posted this, I never really thought about it like that. I never realized, even though she's told me that she feels TERRIBLE about hurting me, that when I brought it up, it would make her feel bad. I guess the most honest thing I can say is that I figured that since she seemed to want to "forget" it and move on, that it wouldn't bother her those few times it came up.
That said, I totally get what you are saying but I never saw it until now. My W acts the SAME way after a R talk about the affair, or even the mention of it. I just thought it was because she was angry at me, but the last thing I would have thought was that she was hurting because of MY pain.
In light of that realization, I suggest you just tell him the next time you feel this way.
And, the sex as a punishment, that comes WAY out of left field but I can see, now, how you/she may feel that way however, I can second what H is saying to you. I too feel that one of the ultimate ways my W can reassure me things are "ok" between us and the affair is truly over is by being intimate with me. In a way, I guess you could say that it may go like this for us; we talk about the affair, which to us, may stir up feelings in you. We initiate intimacy to prove to ourselves that DON'T still have feelings for OM, even after talking about him.
That may happen 100% in the subconscious but I have no doubt that in my case, there is some truth to it. I can't really tell you what to do but I do wish my W would find some way to be intimate with me. I really believe that in my case, and maybe your H's case, I need that connection to be established so I can feel more secure that there is NOT a connection of that sort with OM. That may be needy and wrong, but it's honestly how I feel.
Quote: I tell him I can't just switch that on after being beaten down (not physically) repeatedly. I feel he is punishing me and fine if that's what he needs to do, but it's a little unrealistic to think that I will suddenly be in the mood following a reminder of how awful a person I am. So my question is is this normal?
Yes, if I am normal, and I do this, then it's normal...sorta. I say sorta because while I think it's normal for him to want intimacy, I don't think it's normal for him/me to punish, then want sex. I know, speaking for me personally, that I never really though of it as punishment until you posted. I know my W has said much the same as you about all the "beat downs" administered by me over this, but I honestly didn't realize that's how she may have felt about it. That may explain why she's been able to be closer to me over the past couple days since I've made a 100% conscious effort not to "jab" her in any way or bring up the affair. I don't think I have been too successful at this in the past but I have done really well lately.
If you think of it as punishment of some sort, as does my W, I can see how you may feel "un-intimate" but for us, our jabs, etc, are probably, in some f--ked up way, designed to provoke exactly the opposite response.
That was a LOT to digest. I tend to run on a bit (lol) but I am really trying to apply your experience to mine and vice versa. I may post more but you should have something to go on. Please, ask more questions, or ask me about what I posted. I think we can help each other.
Wow, that may have beem my longest ever. Piper, I tried in that post to just express how I felt, without filtering much (obviously). I want to be more clear about the intimacy thing.
While my W has said she felt attacked by me, as you say you do by your H, she never equated it to our intimacy issues. To me, when she would pull away, or doesn't want to be intimate, especially when we have recently talked about OM or the affair, it's at best because she's still not feeling connected to me, and at worst, because she still has feelings for him. I would have never guessed that she may just be feeling attacked and therefore it has not much to do with either her overall feelings for me OR him. Wow.
I appologize for the length of my post, seems I had a lot to say! I hope you don't mind but don't feel like you have to read it all. I hope some of you will continue to respond despite the length.
Thank you all for responding. It has certainly helped me to see things from the male perspective, not only from the spouse who's wife cheated on him. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised really. If we take the A out of the equation, there are still issues in our M that we have yet to master, but at least we're trying now. Men and women will never completely understand eachother, so why should I think this situation should be any different? We each have our reasons for how we react to the other.
I'd like to respond to each of your questions.
FA, without revealing too much, the reason we are now just starting to deal with the A is because I was sick and got very sick near the end of the A and completely shut down for the few months following it. My H stood by me and put his own needs aside, as any good spouse would do. Which is probably why I isolate myself so easily when the A is brought up. I feel unworthy of him, and that is my problem that I need to deal with. Following that we had another significant even in our lives (nothing bad) but it consumed our time. We went through it together, like we knew we were meant to. That brings us to June when 'nothing' was happening in our lives, and then the problems began. Basically, H was free to open up about his feelings about my A and is now going through all the emotions. Which is why I know most of his reactions are totally normal, I just need to know if there's anything I can do to help him.
Hurt = Angry is interesting and makes sense. Like many guys H was never shown a mechanism for dealing with hurt. He is not aggressive or loud, and is probably in more danger than the average guy of having his feelings ignored. Thankfully this is something I've learned about him over our 5 year history and like a lot of women I talk his ear off about every issue. He doesn't seem to mind, rather encourages is since he needs help communicating. I do think he's stuck though, and I hope the C will help him with that.
There's an overwhelming response that H's efforts to be intimate following a discusion of the A has to do with his ego, or whatever you want to call it. Very helpful, thank you! It helps to hear it expressed by other men in his situation. Honestly, let me tell you how I interpreted it. H would talk about the A, about me being with the OM, how pictures run through his mind, and then he would want sex. Ok, here's what I see. Not only has H managed to make every fun thing in our lives relate to my A, even though it had nothing to do with it, now he is relating our intimate time to my A. I think that when we would have sex, he would not even be there, he would be in his own little world, he would be thinking about me with OM. Does that make any sense? It scares me is what it does. Our counsellor told him several months ago in response to his question about how to stop thinking about the A, to imagine a giant, red stop sign that would appear in front of the bad images in his mind. Anytime he was reminded of anything that bothered him ,to put up the stop sign. Anyways thanks for a different perspective which shows me that he is probably completely switching from one thought to the next and not related them as I have been. That helps a lot. It is still going to be a problem if the A is discussed and then intimacy is expected however.
Cat03, I am sorry about what has happened to you, and that your poor kids are probably dealing with it too. It still amazes me the depths of my selfishness, if I had drug my children (I don't have any) through it I'd probably be institutionalized by now. You are a very strong and forgiving woman. H too has mentioned that sometimes he just wants to know more and more details, but fights himself so he doesn't ask them because he knows he doesn't want to know about it. The fact is I hurt him the most I ever could and what's the value in discussing it any further. I think I would have been too scared to not answer his questions, but it sounds like your H made the right choice, despite angering you further. It's good that you realize that there are other issues that need to be addressed. Lately, it seems to me like H thinks his slate has been wiped clean which is ignorant to say the least. It's how he's always been though, not addressing the real issue. It kind of feels like we're treating the symptoms not the problems. We're getting there though.
Strangely, he does not want to see a counsellor on his own, he only wants to go with me. Any thoughts on that one?
Stevie your question is valid, "what do you hope to accomplish by being angry", but I know for me ( I tend to be the one who gets angry easily) it's not a feeling a person feels they can control, especially if they react quickly to situations like I do. H is different and thinks about it more first before getting angry. This situation may be too much for him to handle on his own though. I don't think anything gets accomplished by being angry but it's important for him to feel like he can express anger, because that tells me that he is trusting me more and more. During the A when I "wasn’t sure what I was going to do" (that makes me sick) he was only nice to me, never angry, scared I believe. Now that he can show me a more vulnerable side of him it's good, because he is trusting me to take care of him. It helped me to hear you say that after all the anger was out was when you wanted to feel closer to your W. That made me feel like I am important to him and he does need me.
To answer your questions, my A started in September 2005, it got physical in October and then I stopped eating pretty much all together and was put on sick leave. Unfortunately this just made it easier for me to see the OM who was also put on stress leave. I left for about two nights and went to stay with some family, all the time thinking I needed to get away from my situation ( that was before it turned physical). But the pull towards the OM was too strong and I too weak. (It ended mid november). OM and I had certainly managed to create quite the fantasy world in our minds, how we would have such an amazing life together all that BS. Come on. How can a good, decent relationship stem from lies, hurt and selfishness? The weird thing is I knew it, like a smoker knows they're killing themselves, while they light up another one. Addiction to attention is the best way I can describe it. It's humbling that's for sure, I feel a lot of the time when H brings up the A that I should be walking around with one of those black arm bands they used to give women in the old days who committed adultery for the world to see. I find I walk with my head down more now. I guess it's because I really do have something to be ashamed of. Part of me thinks I have revealed my true character and that is too hard a pill to swallow, and another part of me feels like no, that is not who I am. I made bad decisions, and I regret them, but it doesn't define me.
What brought me back to H? I woke up. I physically removed myself from my life, literally going to another part of the world for two weeks, you could call it withdrawal, because I was unable to remove myself emotionally. Was I in love? Who knows. I don't trust that part of my judgment. I trust myself now, but I don't know what to call that. At the time yes, I believed I was in love because all the feelings were there that go with love. But real love does not involve inflicting pain on someone else, or myself, both of which I was doing liberally. Without sounding like I'm defending my actions, there was a lot of pressure from OM to leave my H. H got a new job that would take him out of town a lot (I mean more than half the month a lot multiple days) and I feared a lonely life plain and simple. Now I can say with confidence that I am exactly where I want to be and I will never question it again. I am so unbelieveably fortunate to have my H and never again will I compromise our M. Therein may lie the core problem, we are just not on the same page yet. I look at my wedding pictures and see the happiest day of my life, he looks at them and sees a whole first year of marriage destroyed. I can't see that. I want to try to fix him, and I can't and it's killing me. I want things the way they were when I said 'yes'. I think it can happen. Someday. I'll work at it til the day I die.
GH you posted last and I've just been going down the list of questions but I hope I've answered some of yours already. If your W thinks she is still in love with OM she needs to see a counsellor immediately to help her sort out whether or not she is. To be honest with you, there were definitely feelings that developed between me and OM, but now I look at them like as if he were an old boyfriend who was important to me at one point in my life, but now I have moved on. I'm not really sure what it's like for men, but if you sat an old lady down and asked her to tell you about her life, she would tell you about all the people she's loved, not what jobs she had, or places she's been. There's no denying that a woman's life is full of relationships that impact her in very deep ways. An A is a relationship that happened out of sequence. At least mine was. Of course there are always other factors depending on the situation, a big one being lack of self respect or self esteem. What your W needs to realize is that it was not a healthy or true relationship because it was based on anxiety, mistrust, lies, selfishness and lack of respect. It is not enough for her just be back, she needs to believe she is where she ought to be. I get the feeling that she is where she wants to be, and that she's getting over a time in her life that the door needs to be closed on. When that happens, is when you will trust her again. H says he trusts me. He says it is the damage that he is having a hard time with. I wanted to mention that we do have the book, and have both been reading it on and off since our C recommended it. Maybe we should start reading again.
If your W is like me she is scared. Scared that you refusing to move forward and leave this baggage behind will mean that you will never completely let yourself be happy. Not that you don't want to but that you won't allow it to happen. The fact that she become annoyed by your comments means she cares a lot. Sounds weird I know, but it's every human's instinct to live and live well. The day she just takes it and shuts down is the day you should be worried. I know it scares me that if H continues to relate everything in our world to my A that soon it will consume our lives like a virus and we will suffocate to death, together. The truth is it's just not fair to you. She has hurt you and you cannot retaliate because you love her. You can look at it like she wins because she got to do what she wanted to do at your expense and now she's decided to come back to you, and you just had to take it. Or you can look at it like she likely is, which is that she will have to deal with the fact that she deliberately and selfishly harmed you for the rest of her life. When you continually bring up her A, you are telling her that she will never get you back completely. Yes you may reside under the same roof but your relationship will be hollow. This is not a comparison by the way to the OM. You have to make that choice to see it that way. You will know if you can trust her because she will look you in the eye when she talks to you. What all this means is that you have to do more work to heal. Is it fair, no, but who cares? If it means you have a happy life together with the woman you have chosen to be your wife then isn't it worth it? I can't imagine how difficult it's been for you after being hurt so badly.
Piper, my H had a PA 11 months ago. It still hurts me the today, as if I just found out. I can understand what your H is going through because I feel the same way. There is anger, hurt, resentment and disappointment all bottled up into one big emotional mess. The most hurtful thing is that we trusted our spouses. Of course, something must of lead you to seek OM. The lies, the secrets, the betrayal....it's all devasting. I feel like a truck has ran over me. Time has definately not healed my wounds. I'm sure your husband loves you but he is seriously hurt. I have not learned to let go of the anger and my H feels it. I become distant and he doesn't know how to handle it.
I'm sorry, I hope I haven't upset you, but a serious violation of the marriage has taken place. It is so painful.
Quote: I can't imagine how difficult it's been for you after being hurt so badly.
I post this quote from you kinda in response to Jade's post. I just want to say, in addition to what I have already posted, that I get the sense that no matter how much you SAY you know you don't understand how much this has hurt your H, you really DO think you understand and somehow I keep getting the sense that you think you've wrapped your head around it, figured it out and think he should have by now too.
Like Jade said, this pain (as often cited by "experts" as well) is just about as much emotional pain a person can endure. Even more than the DEATH of a spouse, their infidelity causes enduring, recurring pain that most of us have NO idea how to deal with, nor do we feel particularly motivated to. There is a sense of entitlement to our anger/pain/resentment. I think this is what you sense when you say your H doesn't want to be happy.
I think you have gotten off VERY easy here because many of the "other side" folks, i.e. AmyC, heather, Hopefullhusband, crazedmom, etc., have gotten an ear full when they first started posting about how much their actions probably hurt their spouses, etc. For whatever reason, the way your approached posting seemed to diffuse that in us but I assure you, anything that sounds like self-righteousness on your part will bring it out. I DON'T THINK you sound like that now but this idea that "I've moved on from the affair, want things to be better and can't understand why he's stuck there, relating everything back to this one thing..." kind of talk is getting there.
He/we can't move on yet because he's not finished processing what has transpired. The betrayal, pain, anger, resentment, etc, is still lurking in him and it may take a long time to leave. I hope it goes sooner or later, but in the meantime, I think the most positive sign you can give your H about your renewed commitment to him and your marriage is to stand by him while he deals with this, giving him the space, or support that he asks for.
I do believe that in time, he will begin to open up and then you can do the REAL work of dealing with the issues you now want to fix in your marriage.
Please, give it time and I think you will both end up happier and stronger than ever.
Jade, I'm really sorry I upset you more. I feel really bad, I didn't mean to downplay what you're going through if I did. It must take a lot for you to even give a damn about helping me. I will try to be more careful.
Grasshopper, I have obviously upset you as well. You are angry at me, like my H is. I'm sorry that all you got out of my post was that you felt insulted by my attempt to empathize with you. If you don't want to help you don't have to. I think my attempt to understand your wife and give you some hope that you will be able to trust her again backfired. I am very aware that I have come to a board of very hurt people and that I am asking for your and their help. In your first reply you seemed interested in our situation and your responded nearly completely with a comparison to you and your wife. I just thought that you wanted me to do the same. I do value what you say to me. I don't want to sound self righteous, and I don’t think that I am. I don't think anything would be accomplished by pretending that I have not moved on from the A. In fact if I hadn't I think we'd be a much worse spot.
I will stand by my H as you say as he goes through this. But I don't know how to do that. For example what is the right response when yesterday he asked me very specific details about the sex with OM? These are the times that I have no idea what to do. When he is clearly sad, I am aware that it probably about my A, and I ask him how he is doing, and is there anything I can do and try to be close to him. Is this right? I don't know what 'stand by him' means in words or actions.
