Quote: On Saturday night we were talking about something and somehow got on the subject of sex. I must have said something suggestive (who, ME, lol). Her response was to smile and say "You won't be waiting long, I promise. I don't know why you have to be that way about it."
I don't know what "way" I was, but I like that answer, especially if it's true.
I think that she means "pressuring her by dropping hints all the time".
GH, I think you'll get it sooner if you act like you don't want it. Flirt with her like crazy, and romance her to the hilt, but act like sex itself isn't important to you compared to just being close. Take the pressure away and back off and I bet she'll come after you.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Quote: GH, I think you'll get it sooner if you act like you don't want it. Flirt with her like crazy, and romance her to the hilt, but act like sex itself isn't important to you compared to just being close. Take the pressure away and back off and I bet she'll come after you.
RB, I think I do a pretty good job of this MOST of the time, then there are those slip-ups that probably let her know the truth, that it IS important to me, as it should be. I think the key lies in something you once said you did, which was to remove your W from your fantasies. I don't want to go that far, but what I think I need to do is to not ACT like sex isn't the goal, but really have it NOT be the goal. Right now, I have to be honest and say it is, and that goes counter to my assertion that all this flirting, touching, etc, is all "extra-bedroom" stuff. I really DO want to do all those things without sex being involved AFTER we have sex, but until then, they are decidedly linked to that goal.
I know Passionate Marriage and OT would probably disagree with this approach, and maybe I have it all wrong, but I really do want to establish intimacy without sex in my relationship. That may seem silly, or impossible, but what I am after is a level of closeness that comes from simply kissing and nothing else, holding each other like we did the other night in bed, making out without intercourse, etc. I, like MANY people have been too fixated on the "end" and not the means.
Like I said, I think I am doing ok in this respect but the backslides are killing me, however slight they may be.
This is NOT a major issue right now. In fact, there IS progress being made, of this I am sure.
Journaling...
Yesterday, W was sick and asked me to come home early from work. Since I was sick too, work told me to go. W was very appreciative. She agreed to see a doctor if I came home, something she almost never does. She's, as I have posted before, very anti-doctor. We ended up leaving the walk-in clinic because there was a 3 hour wait but went back after picking up the kids from school and found out that she has a severe sinus infection.
As a side note, there was a LOT of hand holding while we were driving around. I think she wanted to be comforted but it's unusual because like kissing, hand holding died out a long time ago in our R.
Today, I had to work the night-shift so I got to help take the kids to school. Afterwards, W and I went home to crash for a bit (both of us sick). Then we went to lunch and a movie together. In the theatre she did something (there seems to be a lot of these "she never does this" things happening lately... ) she doesn't ever do, again, even when things were good, she reached over and held MY hand during the movie. It was surprising and very nice. Again, it's REALLY strange to be finding out how intimate and "connected" you can feel over something that used to be taken so for granted. I think it's all in the "being", or living in the moment that matters. Absently taking someone's hand is a far cry from feeling their touch, the texture of her hand, the warmth it gives off, the subtly movements of her fingers, etc. When you are truly "there" it makes a world of difference. I can only imagine what must be like with this kind of attention...
So, things are ok now. I still don't know if they will be tomorrow, nor am I worried about it. Today is all I am focused on, especially since it's been pretty good (other than feeling like crap).
Hi GH, I hope today finds you both well. What's going on down there in FL, you both seem to be sick alot. Could it actually be caused by stress???
In any case, intimacy does not necessarily mean intercourse. I think intimacy, is kissing, touching, hand holding, cuddling, etc. and I think you guys are there. To go any further you both need to feel safe, an uninhibited (sp) with eachother. So much as happened over this past year so it will take a while for those feelings to return. But I guarantee, they will return and you WILL have a wonderful M, eventually!
Hi GH, Just checking in on you - it's been a while! It seems like you are doing really, really well. As usual, you are insightful and "working your program". It is so nice to see your W warming up to you in so many ways. It is a pretty dramatic improvement from even just 1 month ago. I do hope you will take RB's advice (and mine!) and push for a regular babysitter. Have you thought about advertising? And WOW, does it really cost an extra $60 - $80 each time? I must be out of touch, that is a lot. But nonetheless, I say find one, do it weekly, put it in your budget, it's worth it. Otherwise, send to Europe for a live-in au pair. Seriously, there are lots of swedish girls who would love to come to Florida. Something's gotta give, GH. Considering the good steps your W is taking (based on your great changes in behavior BTW) I expect the heat will be coming on soon But help it along with the babysitter You are doing great GH. Amazing, and great.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Thanks for the encouragement. I THINK I am doing ok but certainly I am treading on dangerous ice because things are almost TOO normal, i.e. like my old marriage. I just have to have faith that MY changes are still in effect even though I don't constantly think about them anymore.
Sometimes I feel like aside from the lack of sex, and Mama, I agree, the intimacy in other ways IS creeping in (I don't say BACK in because I truly don't think it was ever there to any real extent), things are as good as they've ever been. The real problem is that my W is a MASTER at covering up her feelings and she'll bury something until it's too late to have any kind of constructive conversation about it. I am just afraid that my perception of things does not match hers in terms of how well things are going.
I keep seeing all these people who say their spouse "tried" (not really) and then bailed again when the "new marriage" didn't live up to their silent expectations. I guess that could happen in my case but it's a risk I have to take because I truly believe that the course I am on is the right one, based on what I know about my "old" marriage, what I have learned about myself, and what I now know about my W's needs, desires and love languages.
Thanks again for the encouragement. Sorry I am not around as much but like I said, it's really more due to work reasons than not wanting to post.
Do you ever just want to walk around pointing out your "changes" to your spouse? I am thinking about that because I see SO many things changing with W and yet I can't be sure if I am imagining it, if it's real but not what I think, things that are coincidentally changing or if they are things she is intentionally trying to change to better herself/our marriage.
I think it would be SO helpful for me to believe in her intentions if I KNEW, by way of come verbal backup explaining things to me, she was making active changes in her behavior. As it stands, and as she's recently told me, I am left to simply observe her without any commentary from her explaining what she's doing... or not. I don't want to come off needy, but I just find this game tireing.
From my perspective, as I know we ALL feel from the get-go with DBing, I have always wanted to just tell her all the changes I have made and am making to improve my life/our life together but I know I can't do that, or SHOULDN'T do that because according to DB wisdom, they need to SEE the changes before they believe they are real.
I guess I am just a verbal communicator and don't like to read minds or look really hard for clues. I need to improve in at least one of those areas.
I suppose bottom line is that like I told muddle and others, questioning their INTENTIONS or MOTIVATIONS is not really helpful so long as the end result is the same.
You know, the verbal reassural is nice....but you won't get it now. But, trust that she DOES notice and it DOES mean a lot. Which is why this phase is CONFUSING for her....she had previously convinced herself of your M and you, and now has to backtrack.
I was blamed for everything and nothing I did was good enough, or sincere enough, or done with a big enough smile for H. Recently, while peeking out of his MLC fog, he admitted that I had changed, and that he knew my changes were sincere and happily done and that "he was not emotionally available to receive it." I nearly fell out of my chair, for him to admit that.
Your time will come. Just know that YOU are different and it should matter most to you.
We are proud of how far you have come, little GH. Very, very proud.
) she doesn't ever do, again, even when things were good, she reached over and held MY hand during the movie. It was surprising and very nice. Again, it's REALLY strange to be finding out how intimate and "connected" you can feel over something that used to be taken so for granted. I think it's all in the "being", or living in the moment that matters. Absently taking someone's hand is a far cry from feeling their touch, the texture of her hand, the warmth it gives off, the subtly movements of her fingers, etc. When you are truly "there" it makes a world of difference. I can only imagine what 
must be like with this kind of attention...