loosing hope and hurting

[seporateddadof2]

I just got back from having lunch with my W. I have been PMA and doing some good persuit that she has been receptive too. Flirting complements appreciation talk etc. She needed a CC that came in the mail at my house and asked me the favor of bringing it. I agreed and said I would bring it and lunch to her job. lunch was going well I complemented her dress she looked pleased. everything was fine until.... I asked her about how she and OM were doing. she said they were fine and talked about his new job. I also asked if he was still talking about moving out. (she told me he was the other day.) She said yes. I asked if that mean that they were broken up.....She never admitted to the A even though she moved out with him. So i was half expecting a denial and half expecting her to egnore the Q. Instead she said that It was hard to define their relationship and she knew she was being selfish but she just wants to take care of herself right now. Even though men want different she doesnt care. She started asking what was wrong and if I wanted to talk about it . I silently said no I dont want to push you away and I think it is time I leave. I couid feel the tears welling up inside me. I threw my trash away and she asked me if I was gonna be ok. I said I have no choice but to be. Ill be fine. She moved to hug me and I backed up. she said bye and i just walked away. Not cold or rude just quiet and polite. She called me about 15min later and I ignored it. and again 5min after that. I turned my phone off at that point. I barely made it out of her office and I still dont know what to say to her so until I do im going dark.
I thought we were making progress. I invisioned us working things out. Not anymore. at least not now. I am so hurt. I thought that OM moving out was a step forward. I thought her being receptive and curious was a sign. I asked her for what i wanted that was for her to call me once a week without needing something and she said she felt she already did. I am so confused. I dont know how much more I can take of this. I feel like I should file and just be done. last last LRT. tell her ILH enough to let her go and do it.

[cherrishher]

SDO2,

From an outside perspective I can tell you this....if what you perceived to be as good signs, are in fact what you thought, then her behaviour at lunch is not unexpected. If she were to say, yes the A is ending it would result in expectations and pressure from you. She will be VERY cautious about letting you come charging back in.

Just my 2 cents.

[FailedAgain]

OK, i am going to take a crack at helping someone, hopefully the ones with more experience can chime in, correct anything I may say wrong or whatever.

Here's what I see and some thing I can relate to in my sit. First, look at this. You said:

everything was fine until.... I asked her about how she and OM were doing.

I think everyone here will agree, from what I have read and in my own experience, never bring up the OP. I know it is easy to think and feel that the OP has a great deal to do with the problems. In reality it doesn't. Any and all the problems focus between you and her and in that, the only thing you can change is you. The OP IS NOT BETTER THAN YOU in anyway, so just put that away. If he diappeared off the face of the planet tomorrow it would not 'solve all the problems'. The problems would still remain and if she just needs someone around, there could be someone else.

I know it's hard brother, but for yourself, try to find a way to put the OP, A, or whatever it is out of your mind. Keep focusing on yourself, detach as much as possible and lower your expectation of what she will or won't do. Then do the hardest thing, wait. We can all wait together.

Here are a few things I do to help me mentally with my W's A. It may not help you, but I will throw it out there.

1- Marriage is more than a piece of paper, the marriage ended when one person 'decided' to leave it, after that one of those persons made a choice to date. This is no different than if a D was finalized.

2- In my case, for whatever the reason, my W still persues me while doing it, so I look at this as either.

A. He's not as good as me, LOL
or
B. She is just 'using' him to get over me and it's not working.

Both of these truly without lieing to myself, boost my ego.

I also regognize, lol, that now I am the one she is really having the affair with. Since I know about him, and he obviously doesn't know I am still around, who is now really getting cheated on? I know this is not your case, I was just hoping to show you some examples of how to deal with it positively.

You will just have to find what works for you, just find something where you can mentally pretend, it isn't happening, and then completely ignore it. It will help you and I 'think' it will also show her your strong maybe even making her guess, 'why isn't this bothering him'. I don't know.

As far as reading into what she is doing and not doing? I think we have all been burned by that one. My W looked like she was going to come back any second for 3 months and then I found out about A. One things for sure. When folks are doing this sort of thing, they are not really 'thinking' they are just floating around on there own needs and autopilot. So trying to figure out what they are thinking, although knwoing you need to know, seems only to lead to raised expectations.

I think you deciding to go dark may be a good thing at this point, because it will help you start really taking care of you and forgetting about her at least a little bit. It will also take you out of her equation and force her to deal with things.

Thats my 2. I hope I have helped and not hurt. Someone slap me if I have and join in.

[attorneytom]

OK, i am going to take a crack at helping someone, hopefully the ones with more experience can chime in, correct anything I may say wrong or whatever.

Here's what I see and some thing I can relate to in my sit. First, look at this. You said:

everything was fine until.... I asked her about how she and OM were doing.

I think everyone here will agree, from what I have read and in my own experience, never bring up the OP. I know it is easy to think and feel that the OP has a great deal to do with the problems. In reality it doesn't. Any and all the problems focus between you and her and in that, the only thing you can change is you. The OP IS NOT BETTER THAN YOU in anyway, so just put that away. If he diappeared off the face of the planet tomorrow it would not 'solve all the problems'. The problems would still remain and if she just needs someone around, there could be someone else.

___________________________________________________

FA, That is good advice !

[seporateddadof2]

Thank you all for the good advice. I felt in my gut that the OM Q wouldnt push her away and it didnt. What I didnt plan on was my own emotional reaction to her answer. She never before admitted to the A and in some ways her answer solidified it for me. We talked again later yesterday. I apologised for getting emotional and explained that I am trying to be ok with everything but sometimes are harder than others. She was surprized because she said she thought I had moved on and wasnt interested in reconciling. I think she was fishing because she ended up telling me she was ending it with OM and was considering getting back together in the future. She is still concerned about how she will be able to get over the pain of our past prob though. We talked a long while. I listened alot. I think we made progress yesterday. Im trying not to get my hopes up. I have felt that the OM issue was in our way before because not only was he a distraction but also an influence in her leaving. He seduced her and sabatoged my efforts telling her I would never change how can she put up with my behavior etc. yesterday was the first time I have asked about their R since I suspected the A. not wanting to push them together I left the issue alone. I only asked b/c she brought up he might be moving out. I wont be asking anymore Q about OM again. I cant handle tha answers right now.
With OM in the picture everything was on hold and I was left to wait until tha A ended to hope for any repair to start. If he is gone atleast she wont have him to fulfill her needs and distract her from missing me. I feel with him out of the picture my DB efforts will carry more weight. we will see. there is alot more that happened yesterday too but that will be another post I think. for now I am going to sit back see what happens with OM.

[FailedAgain]

OK, see if I can touch on a few things here, cause some of what your experiencing was me a few months back.

What I didnt plan on was my own emotional reaction to her answer.

Exactly, that's what nails us every time. Always thing about YOUR reaction not hers, because yours is the only one you can do antyhing about. Do your best to protect you mental health WHILE DB'ing.

She never before admitted to the A and in some ways her answer solidified it for me.

Believe it or not, this may help you once you spend a few weeks dealing with it. In my case, I spent so much time and energy analyzing if there was one going on, once I found out and dealth with it, true attitude changes seemed more real.

I think she was fishing because she ended up telling me she was ending it with OM and was considering getting back together in the future.

Let this roll off and do not use it to feel better by giving hope. Words are words, wait for action. Stay grounded.

I think we made progress yesterday. Im trying not to get my hopes up.

Try not to analyze your progress. If you feel you need to look at it, look at it on a minimum weekly basis. Believe it or not a month would be better. For me it gave me a lot of false sense of security and I believe hurt my DB process. Cause me to ride an emotional roller coaster where my good days were being dictated by what she did or didn't do or say. WRONG!! Doesn't work, drives you crazy, hurts DB'ing. Try to keep focusing on what YOU can do for YOURSELF to make you feel secure about the future without depending on her.

He seduced her and sabatoged my efforts telling her I would never change how can she put up with my behavior etc. yesterday was the first time I have asked about their R since I suspected the A. not wanting to push them together I left the issue alone. I only asked b/c she brought up he might be moving out. I wont be asking anymore Q about OM again. I cant handle tha answers right now.
With OM in the picture everything was on hold and I was left to wait until tha A ended to hope for any repair to start. If he is gone atleast she wont have him to fulfill her needs and distract her from missing me. I feel with him out of the picture my DB efforts will carry more weight. we will see. there is alot more that happened yesterday too but that will be another post I think. for now I am going to sit back see what happens with OM.

OK, now here is where I feel some thinking needs to be changed some. When my first wife and me went through the split up(i'm on 2nd now), it was along the same lines. Even though I knew even then our problems were between her and me, I was convinced that without the OM in the picture I could MAKE her see changes in me, FORCE her to deal with the situation. This was 10 years ago and this forum wasn't here. I did everything wrong, I was constantly trying to do things to keep him out of the situation focusing on him as THE PROBLEM not me. I understand you are not doing those things(ACTIONS) but mentally you are. It seems you feel like if certain things happen that's all it's going to take to make REAL progress and the things you identify are things you really have no control over. It is sort of like having the "Just give me(the old me) another chance" thing when you think it is all about an outside influence. In reality you BOTH need time. You need time to discover the changes YOU WANT to change about yourself, she needs time to heal or deal with whatever aspects of the relationship she was unhappy with and see the changes in you. The thing that REALLY SUCKS about all this, is that it does take time, there is no guarantees and you have no idea when it will end either way. That is what sends us all over the edge but we have to forget that.

This is all a natural way to feel, but your still focusing on the OM like he has some magical power over your wife, like he is brain washing her, the problems aren't that bad and if it were not for him this would not be happening. I have no doubt the OM is working in is best interest to get what HE wants and that's not to say he is not influencing her to some degree but, don't let your wife off the hook about this whole thing in her thinking. People do what they WANT to do. If she wants to stay in the marriage she will and nothing some magic mouthed guy can say will make her change her mind. So, thats why people here say, do things you can do something about and don't waste time, thinking, hoping or trying to change that which you can't. If she is still on the fence, then you need to completely focus on yourself. Make the changes for YOURSELF and no one else. Not just because she needs that from you, but because you, like all of us here, have things in our relationships that have for some reason made us less desireable to be in one with. Make these changes as a new way you want life to be for you NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

You may not be in a metal place for that yet, but keep working towards it and you will. I look back on how I was from month 2 looking back on month 1 thinking, wow, look at the mistakes. did the same thing month 3 looking back on month 2 and so on. Truth is, as time goes on and you keep working on yourself, eventually you will start seeing those changes in yourself. Forget whether W sees them or not, don't force them down her throat. Regain your identity, improve yourslef and try your best to just have an attitude of, "well, lets see what happens." The more time that goes by the more you will see, thats all I know to say.

Please chime in folks if I am off base. I get very nervous trying to help someone.

[seporateddadof2]

I cant deny that I have been focusing on OM. He has been a major focus of my anger. I cant focus it on her. so I blame him. I know she made her decisions on her own because that is what she wanted. We had a ton of prob long before he came along. He was just Mr. convenient or way out. I do need to get back to focusing more on myself again. Do more of what has been working. take some time to let the reality of things sink in. We have been talking more and I told her a list of things I wanted. She has already made a plan to spend family time together. Im waiting to see OM gone. It hasnt happened yet. He was my friend for 20 years. now I cant wait to be rid of him. Thanks for the pep talk what you say makes alot of sence and really hits home.

[FailedAgain]

Yea, it will take time. As always, things like this are easier said than done. You just have to keep picking yourself back up.

One thing.

I told her a list of things I wanted.

How did this go over? This probably was not a good idea at the stage your at. She is probably not concerned about what YOU want, thats why she left, etc. She is doing what SHE wants. This may have just pissed her off more. You'd have to go into more detail though, did she ask for the list, or did you just hand it to her?

[seporateddadof2]

I told her that I would like it if she called me a couple of times a week to talk without wanting something. I also want family time with our 2 girls. and time together to talk and hang out. She didnt get upset or run away. She now calls me every couple of days or so to talk. we email each other regularly. she suggested that we start family time with a open house for our D5 new school on the 31st this mo. thats basicly the list I dont remember the rest of the details on that. It happened towards the end of a tearful R talk. she told me that she was getting tired of OM and her current sitch. She said she felt that there was a poss that we could work things out. She is hoping that OM will be moving out soon. That she was only with him bc he paid attn to her and she wanted someone to hang out with.... those are the highlights. I was talking to her on the phone Fri and she got off saying she had someone on the otherline. I Ass u me it was OM. dk didnt ask. doesnt even matter she is still living and spending rec time with OM. I hear her saying that she is confused and doesnt know what she wants or what to do about it. Im just happy that she is considering us as a possibility and she is thinking instead of procrastinating. At least for now.

[FailedAgain]

dk didnt ask. doesnt even matter..

Good and your right, it doesn't matter.

Sounds like your making positve progress to me either way. Just keep doing what your doing and be patient. Keep working on yourself so when she decides to start working on you guys you will be where you need to be.