Quote: Now, if H were to meet an attractive woman who loves Ohio State Football, Star Trek, triathlons, raising umpteen children (some your own, some not), is socially moderate but politically conservative, Catholic, who doesn't eat vegetables, drinks vodka/cranberry and tropical drinks but no wine or beer, loves the beach, is well educated and earns a nice living - he might just f*ck the crap out of her daily and twice on Sunday. Know anyone?
This is just a form of wishful thinking on your part. If you can imagine some woman who your H would f*ck silly then maybe you could change and become that woman and get f*cked silly. OTOH, it relieves you of the responsibility of even trying because clearly you could never become "that woman". What if your husband's real list of ideal mate characteristics put "Is satisfied with sex once a month." higher up than any of those things you listed? Cheery thought isn't it .
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I'm beginning to think that none of us has a clue as to what makes someone want to fcuk us. I'm not talking about what our partner finds attractive, why our partner was attracted to us, or even what turns our partner on. I'm talking about what makes them reach out physically and make it happen.
I believe it is somewhat related to how clean the house is, how well you cook, your upbeat/deep/sensitive personality, or even your well-plucked eyebrows. But most of us who are with LD people KNOW that they love us, find us mostly attractive, and may even be turned on by us from time to time. It doesn't appear to us to be US they don't want... it's SEX they don't want.
Cobra, I wasn't saying that YOU were saying AOS should be enough for me. I mean that my BF thinks AOS should be enough for me. And I've asked and asked for what I want... over and over again. I'm just tired of doing it. My God, we've been to four therapists together, and I've been to SIX on my own since I met him. I've read a gazillion books... and right now I'm just worn out. At its best, this R will not ever be what I want. I'm not talking about perfection... I mean that he will NEVER be the lover I want. In most ways, he is the COMPANION I want-- we do get along and our life together is 98% good. But given his past and his fears and his ED-- it just ain't gonna happen. Even if he got to where he liked and wanted sex, he will never be that good at it. This is being realistic on my part. It isn't about loving me-- I know he loves me. He just can't take direction from me enough to learn to please me sexually, and he doesn't know enough technique on his own. Sorry... I'm sliding down into one of those abyss places....
Thank you ever so much. We do have a tremendous amount together. Mrs. Chrome would be tickled to death at an H like mine (except the in-laws would not be welcome to the degree they are in the Chrome HH) - I often feel embarrassed that on top of everything we have together I want a lover too. I'm not half bad as a partner and a woman and I was joking at my description of a female version of H - I think actually he prefers that I NOT share in all his pursuits, he likes his solitude sometimes. However, if H were to describe his soulmate I wonder what she would be like. I often think of this one girlfriend of his who was a nurse and very artistic and very independent, played pretty hard to get. I think that might come close to the ideal - nurturer, artistic, someone he had to chase.
I'm beginning to think that none of us has a clue as to what makes someone want to fcuk us. I'm not talking about what our partner finds attractive, why our partner was attracted to us, or even what turns our partner on. I'm talking about what makes them reach out physically and make it happen. _________________________________________________________________________
I laughed through tears on this one. I think this may be the single most profound statement ever made on this BB. This is right up there with the post with some of my favorite Mrs. Nop or Corri posts.
Quote: But most of us who are with LD people KNOW that they love us, find us mostly attractive, and may even be turned on by us from time to time. It doesn't appear to us to be US they don't want... it's SEX they don't want.
It's the SEX they don't want... and it's not that they want sex with someone else... they don't want it with anyone. I'm coming to the conclusion that it really really isn't personal rejection. And we can lose all the weight we want, keep the house spic and span, bring them a beer after din-din and watch football... or rub their feet (Lou), bring them flowers, love their pets... and it will make them LOVE us, but it won't make them want to have SEX with us, because they don't want SEX.
reply to karen1's I want a lover too. I understand that Karen1 and see why you would want a lover.
I'm not half bad as a partner and a woman That is what I always thought.
I was joking at my description of a female version of H I thought you were being serious but also feeling inadequate, which I don't think you are. Insecure a tad bit????? I better stop before I put my foot in my mouth.
Lil said It's the SEX they don't want... and it's not that they want sex with someone else... they don't want it with anyone. Yes, some predicament the HD partner is in.
keep the house spic and span, bring them a beer after din-din and watch football... or rub their feet (Lou), bring them flowers, love their pets..
House sort of clean but not spic & span is fine. I can get my own beer and bring you your favorite drink. Football, no. How about Mythbusters or PBS NOVA, then maybe a movie like Dances With wolves. Rub my feet? How about me doing you? Flowers, maybe. Icecream is better. Being good to the pets is required, but love???? As long as it is not overdone. Save the love for the real people you come in contact with.
Lil, your version sounds like more dedication than some people can keep pumping out but I hear what you are saying. Some of us do those things but where does it get us????? How far does the R advance???
Quote: I'm beginning to think that none of us has a clue as to what makes someone want to fcuk us. I'm not talking about what our partner finds attractive, why our partner was attracted to us, or even what turns our partner on. I'm talking about what makes them reach out physically and make it happen.
Actually I do know some answers to this question in my sich and that is part of what depresses me. If I act like a b*tch and threaten to leave or have sex with another man that will work. Watching "College Girls Go Wild" on TV with him will quite possibly work also. Initiating sex and then bursting into tears when I am rejected also has around a 50% success rate. Maybe it's less a matter of LD/HD and simply a matter of incompatibility since I am increasingly unwilling to do any of these things that might work. I'm not even willing to threaten to leave anymore by saying something like "I will not stay in a sexless marriage". When I'm ready to go, I'll just go.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Interesting observation, Mojo (as usual). To extend the hypothesis: you can lose 20 lbs, keep the house clean, cook his favorite stuff and that doesn't make him want to fcku you. What does is threatening to withdraw his supply (the supply he doesn't even use)?
It is interesting to explore what actually TRIGGERS the LD spouse to seek out sex. My bf has never sought it since he stopped drinking, but some of y'all have said that eventually your spouse seems interested... when a set of conditions (what conditions?) have been met or when an indicator of some sort says the tank is low. I'm hypothesizing that these triggers and indicators don't have anything to do with 1) whether he loves you, 2) whether he finds you attractive or, indeed, is even "turned on" by you. These LD guys can be "turned on" and still take sex or leave it. They can be there with you naked and willing and STILL not be interested. On those occasions where they are interested, the reason appears to have nothing to do with you. THAT'S the aggravating part.
Lou, your sitch is different...
Quote: Lil wrote: keep the house spic and span, bring them a beer after din-din and watch football... or rub their feet (Lou), bring them flowers, love their pets..
Lou: House sort of clean but not spic & span is fine. I can get my own beer and bring you your favorite drink. Football, no. How about Mythbusters or PBS NOVA, then maybe a movie like Dances With wolves. Rub my feet? How about me doing you? Flowers, maybe. Icecream is better. Being good to the pets is required, but love???? As long as it is not overdone. Save the love for the real people you come in contact with.
I think you missed my point. My point is that the tasks we perform in order to make ourselves desirable and appealing to our mates DO make us desirable and appealing, but the mate still doesn't want to have sex. So whether the house is messy, sort of clean, really clean, or spic and span is irrelevant. Rubbing BB's feet or NOT rubbing them... doesn't matter. It's a nice thing to do, but does not create a climate where sex is more likely to happen.
These things don't trigger the ACTION of the LD spouse reaching out for sex. Even if these things increase satisfaction in the marriage, fill the spouse's Love Tank, or even if they create some sexual desire--- the thing that makes the LD spouse occasionally reach for sex (i.e., ACT on the desire) is a mystery and outside our control.
Here’s another thought to throw into the hat. There have been examples here of an LD spouse showing the very apathy you talk about, that nothing the HD does seems to trigger attraction. The assumption is that the LD has somehow turned into a eunuch and could care less about sex. The couple splits and the LD winds up in a hot romance with a new lover. I know that those affairs can go the same way as the first marriage, but my point is that desire does not seem to be dead, just dormant. How do you explain that?
That is what gets me to thinking about what would set H's heart and loins on fire on a regular basis. Obviously, it isn't me although he would say that he thinks I'm wonderful, beautiful, sexy etc... I do wonder if he was in a new R with a new person if it would go the same way or differently. My theory is that something in the R dynamic causes the LD person to submerge their sexuality and a new R works differently thereby removing that roadblock (temporarily or permanently).
I was LD in my former M. Of course, my version of LD equated to about once/week and only really interested every couple of weeks. However, my total effort level in the sexual arena was low. I felt very emotionally threatened in the R, unsupported, on shaky ground and therefore, sex didn't make the priority list. I also had lost huge amounts of respect for ex-H which didn't exactly make him appear delectable. I have attempted to analyze whether I produce any similar dynamic in my R. I have even gone so far as to ask H questions along those lines. He totally denies negative feelings toward me on any of those topics.
To me, this is one of those unanswerable questions because the answer lies somewhere in H's psyche. I doubt he sees himself as LD - he just has lots of reasons why sex isn't convenient, or doesn't make sense or whaever he thinks of. Of course, there is always the possibility that he has someone on the side whom he swings from the chandaliers with (I don't really think this but you never know).
The eternal mystery is not why is my spouse LD but why is my spouse LD with me?
Cobra and karen-- yes, you've identified the crux of the matter: for those LD spouses who have not simply lost interest in sex all together (which I believe Lou's BB has)--
Quote: The eternal mystery is not why is my spouse LD but why is my spouse LD with me?
If we knew the definitive answer to that AND knew the cure for it, we could give seminars, do infomercials, and make a fortune. (Maybe even run a bulletin board.)
Karen wrote
Quote: My theory is that something in the R dynamic causes the LD person to submerge their sexuality and a new R works differently thereby removing that roadblock (temporarily or permanently).
Whatever that something is appears to be unknowable. It involves a willingness to let down walls, admit another person into the inner sanctum of one's heart and soul-- at least that's the way a 4 looks at it. I guess Mojo would say it involves a willingness to have jolly fun in bed.
. 
